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Shafts; soft / hard stepping - what does it mean?

JayB

JayB

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i think it’s meant for people between flexes. i don’t know why you hard step vs soft step, though.




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My Tour Edge fitting called for regular flex Recoil 80 shafts hard stepped. That will be a first for me in terms of having shafts stepped either way. Didn't think to ask why we didn't go stiff flex soft stepped and what the difference would have been. If they work out well, I may soft step the stiff flex Recoils in my other sets.
 
c.a.eleric said:
i think it’s meant for people between flexes. i don’t know why you hard step vs soft step, though.




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Click to expand...

That's how I understand it. My Modus 130 S are hard stepped so they're essentially X-flex lites.
 
... An over simplification but you change the flex by approx 25% or 1/4 stronger or weaker. So if you soft step a set of Recoil 95 stiff shafts, you will be putting a 3 iron shaft in a 4 iron, the 4 iron in the 5 iron, etc which weakens the flex by approx 1/4 flex. If you want to be right between flexes you would soft step twice. I fit myself when I taught full time and when Mizuno wanted me to review their MP59's they set up a fitting with a local rep, even though I said it was not necessary but they wanted to be sure I had the perfect set up for review. I had been playing MP63's with KB Tour stiff flex, soft stepped once and 1/2" long. The rep used the Mizuno Optimizer and in 3 swings it recommended: KB Tour stiff flex, soft stepped once and 1/2" long. I was very impressed.
 
Chisag said:
... An over simplification but you change the flex by approx 25% or 1/4 stronger or weaker. So if you soft step a set of Recoil 95 stiff shafts, you will be putting a 3 iron shaft in a 4 iron, the 4 iron in the 5 iron, etc which weakens the flex by approx 1/4 flex. If you want to be right between flexes you would soft step twice. I fit myself when I taught full time and when Mizuno wanted me to review their MP59's they set up a fitting with a local rep, even though I said it was not necessary but they wanted to be sure I had the perfect set up for review. I had been playing MP63's with KB Tour stiff flex, soft stepped once and 1/2" long. The rep used the Mizuno Optimizer and in 3 swings it recommended: KB Tour stiff flex, soft stepped once and 1/2" long. I was very impressed.
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Out of curiosity, how does the extra length come into play? In the example you gave, that would effect the swing weight more than the shaft stiffness, right?
 
Chisag said:
... An over simplification but you change the flex by approx 25% or 1/4 stronger or weaker. So if you soft step a set of Recoil 95 stiff shafts, you will be putting a 3 iron shaft in a 4 iron, the 4 iron in the 5 iron, etc which weakens the flex by approx 1/4 flex. If you want to be right between flexes you would soft step twice. I fit myself when I taught full time and when Mizuno wanted me to review their MP59's they set up a fitting with a local rep, even though I said it was not necessary but they wanted to be sure I had the perfect set up for review. I had been playing MP63's with KB Tour stiff flex, soft stepped once and 1/2" long. The rep used the Mizuno Optimizer and in 3 swings it recommended: KB Tour stiff flex, soft stepped once and 1/2" long. I was very impressed.
Click to expand...
If you soft step and then butt trim the shaft for it to play at standard length for that club, does it still have the same stiffness reduction?
 
Sox Fan said:
My Tour Edge fitting called for regular flex Recoil 80 shafts hard stepped. That will be a first for me in terms of having shafts stepped either way. Didn't think to ask why we didn't go stiff flex soft stepped and what the difference would have been. If they work out well, I may soft step the stiff flex Recoils in my other sets.
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the regular hard stepped or stiff oft stepped probably has more to do with the bend profile. In the example in the article, there were two manufacturers examined. One had consistent stiffness increase between R, S, X, and one had a different profile between R, S, X. The choice all depends on what bend profile you need and which shaft gives you that.
 
soft stepping and hard stepping is just another detailed tool a fitter can use to dial in a golfer looking for something specific from a club, whether that be flight, feel, dispersion.
 
Shafts; soft / hard stepping - what does it mean?

Funny. I knew nothing about this until last spring when I found out I should get my shafts hardstepped. I fell directly between stiff and x shafts. Only way to bridge the gap was to hardstep them.


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c.a.eleric said:
i think it’s meant for people between flexes. i don’t know why you hard step vs soft step, though.




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One reason could be preferred weighting. In my former KBS C-Tapers the S weigh 120g and the S+ weigh 125g. If someone were to take a S and hard step and another take a S+ and soft step, you'd essentially come to the same thing but 5g difference. Flex point, general performance, and other things like feel could play into it too.

I've always been told it effects by 1/3 flex.
 
tpluff said:
One reason could be preferred weighting. In my former KBS C-Tapers the S weigh 120g and the S+ weigh 125g. If someone were to take a S and hard step and another take a S+ and soft step, you'd essentially come to the same thing but 5g difference. Flex point, general performance, and other things like feel could play into it too.

I've always been told it effects by 1/3 flex.
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Amazing post. And the 1/3 was repeated by the TT folks as well so it’s what I live by too.
 
mr.hicksta said:
Out of curiosity, how does the extra length come into play? In the example you gave, that would effect the swing weight more than the shaft stiffness, right?
Click to expand...

... It is about better contact for a myriad of reasons. 1/2" long has always produced better center contact for me and the Optimizer confirmed that. Of course the heads need to be weighted or shafts need to be used that account for the extra length. At the time using KB Tours that are counter balanced meant I could use normal had weights to get to my referred D3 swing weight.
 
Sox Fan said:
If you soft step and then butt trim the shaft for it to play at standard length for that club, does it still have the same stiffness reduction?
Click to expand...

... Yup. I have always played .355 thats so soft stepping is easy just dropping down one club. An added benefit is many 9 irons shafts are the same flex as the wedge shafts and by soft stepping once, you get the normal frequency gap between the 9i and wedge as you do with all the other irons.
 
Chisag said:
... It is about better contact for a myriad of reasons. 1/2" long has always produced better center contact for me and the Optimizer confirmed that. Of course the heads need to be weighted or shafts need to be used that account for the extra length. At the time using KB Tours that are counter balanced meant I could use normal had weights to get to my referred D3 swing weight.
Click to expand...

How did you counter balance the shafts? Plugs under the grip?


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Chisag said:
... KB Tours are counter balanced by design.
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You mean higher balance point right and not counter balanced?


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... Potato patahto. : ) You can expect about a 2-3 swing weight drop when installing KB Tours.
 
mr.hicksta said:
Out of curiosity, how does the extra length come into play? In the example you gave, that would effect the swing weight more than the shaft stiffness, right?
Click to expand...

You butt trim to your normal playing length when stepping.
 
tpluff said:
One reason could be preferred weighting. In my former KBS C-Tapers the S weigh 120g and the S+ weigh 125g. If someone were to take a S and hard step and another take a S+ and soft step, you'd essentially come to the same thing but 5g difference. Flex point, general performance, and other things like feel could play into it too.

I've always been told it effects by 1/3 flex.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I am not even sure the tolerances on the C tapers are low enough to e able to do what you say and get a 5 g difference. You would be better off going to a place like golf works and hand sorting the shafts you buy so they are the weight you want. Steel shafts aren't always the same weight. My understanding is the only difference on shafts like DG gold vs DG pro is they are tighter tolerances of the same shaft.
 
ntanygd760 said:
I could be wrong but I am not even sure the tolerances on the C tapers are low enough to e able to do what you say and get a 5 g difference. You would be better off going to a place like golf works and hand sorting the shafts you buy so they are the weight you want. Steel shafts aren't always the same weight. My understanding is the only difference on shafts like DG gold vs DG pro is they are tighter tolerances of the same shaft.
Click to expand...

You're right. Could be a 10g difference. But you're completely ignoring the concept to go straight to a reality of factory tolerances that 99% of us can't control nor see the effects of. Hand pick shafts from golf works? What even is that?

As for the TT stuff, your understanding is mistaken. DG pro is a completely different shaft from standard DG, has nothing to do with tolerances. DG Pro is a progressive iron shaft with differences in short, mid, and long irons.

My understanding is the tighter tolerances in the TT line is going to be in their Tour Issue line. Not that I spent time with any important TT people recently or anything and discussed this very thing. Coincidentally, I'm playing DG 120 TI shafts now....
 
mr.hicksta said:
Out of curiosity, how does the extra length come into play? In the example you gave, that would effect the swing weight more than the shaft stiffness, right?
Click to expand...

Golf works is an online retailer for building clubs. They are in Ohio and will let you pick out the shafts and weight them yourself so you can get the exact weight. If you don't live by them then you can email customer support and get them to weight the shafts for an upcharge and get your exact weight They will do the same thing for the heads they sell. They are the people who carry Maltby heads.

Yeah Tour Issue you are right. Get those confused
 
ntanygd760 said:
Golf works is an online retailer for building clubs. They are in Ohio and will let you pick out the shafts and weight them yourself so you can get the exact weight. If you don't live by them then you can email customer support and get them to weight the shafts for an upcharge and get your exact weight They will do the same thing for the heads they sell. They are the people who carry Maltby heads.

Yeah Tour Issue you are right. Get those confused
Click to expand...

I know who Golf Works is, I just placed an order with them on Monday! I don't go to Ohio unless I absolutely have to and hand picking iron shafts is not a "have to". :alien:
 
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