Full swing vs. Short game vs. Putting: where do we lose more strokes?

InTheRough

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The thread about "would you rather drive for show or putt for dough" got me thinking about this. About the psychology of golf. It's mental game and how we think about the game.

Do your birdies start with a good tee shot? Or do they end with a great putt?

Do a significant percentage of your birdies start with a poor to mediocre tee shot? You can probably do it on a short par 4 or short par 5 if you get a great second shot.

Where on the course would you stand the best chance of beating touring professional? From a 375 yd tee to holing out? From a 140 yd approach shot to holing out? Or on the putting green from 15 feet?

I would run straight to the putting green because I have been known to sink 15 footers.

My point being that off the tee, the pro would hit driver (310) and a lob shot (65) and probably leave himself at most a 10 foot putt. I would hit a driver, and if I hit it well (230 for me), I'd be hitting a full 8 iron (145) into the green complex and probably leave myself about a 30 foot putt if I hit the green at all. If I missed, I'd be chipping on and I'd have to put it within 3' of the hole to make par - chances are that I'd chip to about 6 feet where it's a coin toss for par or bogey. Meanwhile he has about a 20% chance of making birdie and about 99% chance for par.

From 140 he's hitting an easy PW, while I'm hitting an 8 iron. He's looking at a 2 or 3 from there. I'm looking at 2 if I'm real lucky and stick it close, 3 if I hit target, and possibly a 4 if I miss the green.

Every birdie I've had started with a good solid drive. Every eagle I've had started with a good solid drive. Not necessarily in the fairway, but they were in good position usually just off the fairway and among my longest. All but one par started with a good tee shot - that one require two long 5W to get to the green.

Almost every bad hole I've had has started with a bad tee shot - one that put me in a bad position where I've had to either take penalty strokes, or been in the woods so far that I've had to take more than a couple strokes to hack my way out.

How about you?
 
Bad tee shot is always what hurts me most. I got pretty decent (for me, anyways) with my short game because that's where I've always had to make up strokes. When I can finally stay in the short stuff off the tee, especially on par 4s and 5s, I get the feeling my scoring will improve dramatically from where it is now (mid-high 90's).
 
On average with strokes gained Driving is more important by a long way. Me personally I am a much better putter than off the tee.

Any birdie that required a great putt usually means I didn't play the hole all that well. Obv not true on really hard par 4s but a good rule of thumb for me. Would say 75% of my birdies are either 2 putt birdies or under 5 feet that came from a chip close to the green on a par 5 or a short par 4. Good question in general though makes me want to look at my stats for the season and get the exact number

I need to keep in mind the strokes gained stats are mostly from the tour so might not hold true as the handicap goes up but I have a feeling it still holds true
 
I think the answer to this is very individual and dependent on where your game is.

1) I'm fine off the tee - wouldn't mind being a bit longer but who wouldn't.
2) I'm pretty good with putts within 10'-15' and will occasionally sink a bomb (2 of my 2015 eagles were with a 54' putt and a 35' one)
3) I can make good chips and pitches but I can also be very inconsistent and leave myself too far from the pin more than I should.

For me, the short game is where I lose the most strokes.

Added - just looked at GameGolf to see what it said would be my biggest improvement and it's 2.94 stokes gained thru Short Game and specifically 1.24 strokes from the rough 25 yards and in.



See below - couldn't say it any better
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
 
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My short game is fair but could be better and this results in way too many long putts.
 
Bad putting. Bad short game. Bad ball striking. Bad driving. In that order.
 
Lose the most on long tee shots


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Short game, more importantly 60 yards and in with wedge.
 
I lose most of my strokes with my short game; specifically chipping around the green. While I need to improve in that area, I think my iron play could use improvement as well. If i hit more than 50% of the greens in regulation I wouldn't put as much pressure on my short game as I do. Reasonable birdie opportunities for me come from iron play.
 
I should add, please list your current handicap.
 
5.8 right now not really playing. Around a 2 as soon as I start playing almost everyday and practice.
 
I'm a 30 handicap, so it takes the stars aligning for me to card a birdie. I think every one I've had (which is fewer than 10) has included a putt of at least 12 feet. I should probably have more, as I hit my share of greens. I'm just a lousy putter, though.
 
Full swing vs. Short game vs. Putting: where do we lose more strokes?

Always the driver or any tee shot for me with regards to losing strokes. (Mostly due to hitting it OB). My main course that I play has what appears to be more white stakes than trees...stroke and distance is brutal. Perfect example for me was I shot a 78 for 16 holes at our men's championship...but carded a 102 for 18. . I took a 13 and a 11 on two holes due solely to the tee shot. The 13 was on a par 3!!

Currently a 13 Hdcp.
 
9 handicap for me. My game off the tee is what has always haunted me. My short game has in the past been pretty good and could make up for mistakes from the tee but penalty strokes kill me thanks to the driver.
 
Putting I lose most of my strokes on the green. Specifically the 5 to 10 foot range. My birdies come from strong iron play. I'm currently a +1.9 HC
 
Full swing is what can get me into trouble, I can usually grind out para from there I get my birdies when I have a good tee shot, because my short game and putting usually keeps me it, except in a simulator
 
I think if you really tracked it, you'd be surprised at just how important a good short game is for scoring. I did that one year. Tracked absolutely every shot I hit (full swings and short game). My goal was to see where I was losing strokes relative to a scratch golfer. Here are the stats the USGA has provided in the past for the average scratch golfer:

Length of Drives (with Roll): 242
FW Hit: 65%
GIR: 66%
Up & Down Inside 50 yds: 50%
Up & Down Inside 15 yds: 75%
Putts per Round: 30
Sand Saves: 45%
Penalty Strokes: 0.5

I think I played about 50 rounds that year (2010) and at the time I had figured out that there was about a 20 stroke difference between me and a scratch golfer (so say I was roughly a 20 something handicap at the time). I'm a real stats and analytics type of guy so I was able to convert all the data I recorded on myself and figure out where I was losing strokes vs a scratch golfer. Here is what the data told me: of those 20 strokes, I lost 15 of them with my short game (pitch, chip, sand, and putts) and 5 with my long game (FW Hit, GIR, Penalty Strokes).

Which means as a 20 handicap if I worked my butt off on my full swing and got myself to scratch golfer ability there, but never worked on my short game - the best I could do is turn myself into a 15 handicap!

Whereas if I focused on my short game, and got to scratch ability there while keeping my current full swing - I could become a single digit handicap (5)

Eye opening!
 
Where on the course would you stand the best chance of beating touring professional? I'm a good putter so I'll take my chances on the green.
 
Until the last few weeks of the summer/fall, I would have said the putter was holding me back. I was averaging 38 putts a round without a make from 10 feet or more. My short game was fantastic as I felt very confident that I would up and down most chips and I even holed out 5-6 times. That changed with the addition of an Odyssey putter. The last month, and after the purchase of the Odyssey, I averaged 33 putts. I rarely 3 putted and made many 10-15 footers. I also snaked in a few long ones.

My drives are straight, if short, and I usually leave myself with a decent chance to reach the green. I hit fat shots more often than I should and also more bladed shots than I should. That is my downfall now.

Although I ended the year at a 14 handicap, most of the summer I was down around 11-12. Playing golf in November and December in Northern Michigan doesn't often bode well for good scoring.

Later,

John
 
I have always been average or below average at putting for my index, currently at a 0.4.

My strengths, from best to worst: mental game, driving, irons, bunkers, short game, and putting. My putting did improve the last half of 2015 so I am hopeful that I can make progress for the first time in 25 years.
 
Here are the stats the USGA has provided in the past for the average scratch golfer:

Length of Drives (with Roll): 242
FW Hit: 65%
GIR: 66%
Up & Down Inside 50 yds: 50%
Up & Down Inside 15 yds: 75%
Putts per Round: 30
Sand Saves: 45%
Penalty Strokes: 0.5



This is great information. Comparisons to my game would show that I am low on GIR and getting up and down from both distances.
 
I think if you really tracked it, you'd be surprised at just how important a good short game is for scoring. I did that one year. Tracked absolutely every shot I hit (full swings and short game). My goal was to see where I was losing strokes relative to a scratch golfer. Here are the stats the USGA has provided in the past for the average scratch golfer:

Length of Drives (with Roll): 242
FW Hit: 65%
GIR: 66%
Up & Down Inside 50 yds: 50%
Up & Down Inside 15 yds: 75%
Putts per Round: 30
Sand Saves: 45%
Penalty Strokes: 0.5

I think I played about 50 rounds that year (2010) and at the time I had figured out that there was about a 20 stroke difference between me and a scratch golfer (so say I was roughly a 20 something handicap at the time). I'm a real stats and analytics type of guy so I was able to convert all the data I recorded on myself and figure out where I was losing strokes vs a scratch golfer. Here is what the data told me: of those 20 strokes, I lost 15 of them with my short game (pitch, chip, sand, and putts) and 5 with my long game (FW Hit, GIR, Penalty Strokes).

Which means as a 20 handicap if I worked my butt off on my full swing and got myself to scratch golfer ability there, but never worked on my short game - the best I could do is turn myself into a 15 handicap!

Whereas if I focused on my short game, and got to scratch ability there while keeping my current full swing - I could become a single digit handicap (5)

Eye opening!

A couple of things really stand out on those stats.

First, average drive with roll of 242. Shows that the path to scratch isn't necessarily averaging 300 off the tee (not saying that's not nice if you can do it but that it is not a necessity)

Second, the Up & Down rates coupled with the putts per round. Yes, the putter can bail out a bad chip/pitch but I'm guessing that the Up & Down rates are driven by getting it close with a wedge. And getting it close also makes it easier to get to 30 putts per round.

Looking at my personal stats:

FIR - 75+% average drive around 240-250
GIR - 50%
Up & Downs I don't have (the others are from GameGolf) but I'd say I was 35% from inside 50 and 50% inside 15.
Putts per round - 32 or so.

I've got to work on my approaches and getting Up & Down.
 
Off the tee box. Something I'm putting a lot of work into correcting that part of my game this winter. It's an ongoing battle... Luckily, my putter and wedge game saves me a lot of strokes in a round.
 
Full swing vs. Short game vs. Putting: where do we lose more strokes?

11.6 index

First of all, all of us with handicaps that include 2 digits aren't going to be better than a tour pro at any part of the game.

Here's the best way I can answer the OPs bigger question. She says she's made exactly one par when her drive was not good. Let's focus on that instead of the birdies and eagles.

Birdies are out of the question for me when it happens but I've made plenty of pars after hitting a substandard drive. That's recovery shots and short game. I think this is a better measure of the relative importance of short game vs driver - you have to be able to turn bogeys into pars and double or worse into bogey.
 
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