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The Scratch Golfer Awakens

ShotScope
BluesManDan said:
What did you think of both his books?
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I think they were both great. I think I got more out of the putting book than the full swing book. Mainly because my putting game needed more help.

But reading greens and judging the speed of putts is a lot easier following his method.

Likewise his advice to focus on the target versus the mechanics of the golf swing is priceless.

Thanks again for the advice

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I need to check out that putting book.
 
Couple questions...

1. Have you ever had someone actually look at your setup position, stroke, grip, etc?

Reason I ask is a good friend of mine started playing a while back. 6'1", 230lbs, ex football player strong. He could hit the ball a country mile and after some range work, he was hitting it a country mile and controlling it. But once he got on the green he was completely lost. Like you, he was averaging 50 putts a round and couldn't figure out why he was having problems on the green. Once he got some help working on pace, tempo and alignment, he starting averaging around 40. Next thing we knew, he was in the mid 30's. Fast forward to today, he's averaging 32 putts a round. Sucks for me because I used to give him 20 strokes and stomp him pretty regularly. Now we're playing even. lol

2. Where in California are you? Might be able to point you in the direction of someone to help you out if we knew where you're at.
 
kevin81002 said:
Couple questions...

1. Have you ever had someone actually look at your setup position, stroke, grip, etc?

Reason I ask is a good friend of mine started playing a while back. 6'1", 230lbs, ex football player strong. He could hit the ball a country mile and after some range work, he was hitting it a country mile and controlling it. But once he got on the green he was completely lost. Like you, he was averaging 50 putts a round and couldn't figure out why he was having problems on the green. Once he got some help working on pace, tempo and alignment, he starting averaging around 40. Next thing we knew, he was in the mid 30's. Fast forward to today, he's averaging 32 putts a round. Sucks for me because I used to give him 20 strokes and stomp him pretty regularly. Now we're playing even. lol

2. Where in California are you? Might be able to point you in the direction of someone to help you out if we knew where you're at.
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Camarillo California

Working with Chad Dietz at the Bunker Indoor Golf.

Focused on full swing for the last 6 months. By choice. Like your friend distance wasn't an issue, but control was.

By just following the advice in the book and from the post in the THP my putting is already getting better than my iron play. Which should predict a very pleasant summer coming up this year. Expect HCP to drop once my new swing because automatic, with only thoughts about the target during play. Then it's just short game and putting for the next 2 to 3 years to see if I can get to single digits.

But thanks again for your help.

BTW. The Kindle unlimited application has been amazing. I have read 6 books this week. Most take less than 3 hours cover to cover. And while not ever once of advice has been heeded, I have definitely improved my mental approach to the game.



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Johan185 said:
Camarillo California

Working with Chad Dietz at the Bunker Indoor Golf.

Focused on full swing for the last 6 months. By choice. Like your friend distance wasn't an issue, but control was.

By just following the advice in the book and from the post in the THP my putting is already getting better than my iron play. Which should predict a very pleasant summer coming up this year. Expect HCP to drop once my new swing because automatic, with only thoughts about the target during play. Then it's just short game and putting for the next 2 to 3 years to see if I can get to single digits.

But thanks again for your help.

BTW. The Kindle unlimited application has been amazing. I have read 6 books this week. Most take less than 3 hours cover to cover. And while not ever once of advice has been heeded, I have definitely improved my mental approach to the game.



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Click to expand...

Good. Glad to hear the hard work is paying off. I actually have the opposite problem. Because I don't play or practice as much as I used to, My accuracy has gone down hill. Clubhead speed and distance has never been a problem (112 driver, 94 7iron) but it's anyone's guess if I'll go to the course and hit it straight or if I'm playing out of the rough (or worse) all day. My index card is quite hilarious. Couple low numbers followed by blowup rounds, followed by some more low numbers followed by some real bad blow up rounds. lol... But I've always maintained a short game and no matter what is going on I take the time to atleast hit chip shots and work on putting in my back yard atleast 5 days a week for an hour or so. It's the only reason I still have a single digit handicap.

The guy my friend used to help him out is Jay Lim in Fullerton. He really liked the way he approached it... very methodical.

Keep it up!
 
kevin81002 said:
Good. Glad to hear the hard work is paying off. I actually have the opposite problem. Because I don't play or practice as much as I used to, My accuracy has gone down hill. Clubhead speed and distance has never been a problem (112 driver, 94 7iron) but it's anyone's guess if I'll go to the course and hit it straight or if I'm playing out of the rough (or worse) all day. My index card is quite hilarious. Couple low numbers followed by blowup rounds, followed by some more low numbers followed by some real bad blow up rounds. lol... But I've always maintained a short game and no matter what is going on I take the time to atleast hit chip shots and work on putting in my back yard atleast 5 days a week for an hour or so. It's the only reason I still have a single digit handicap.

The guy my friend used to help him out is Jay Lim in Fullerton. He really liked the way he approached it... very methodical.

Keep it up!
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Not that I am am expert by any means. But one of the methods we have been working on to control the long game is by slowing everything down. Tempo and pace. For example instead of swinging the driver at 110 mph we are going for nice and easy 90 mph. Our total distance went from 270 down to 250 ish but we ate guaranteed to find the ball in the middle of the fairway.

If we are an amateur, my coach explained, it serves me no advantage to hit the ball 300 yards. Our tracks aren't that long. So it's better to hit a 250 yard middle of the fairway shot than a 290 yards out of bounds, penalty and distance, ego booster.

We might have to squash our egos. But after watching an 83 year old gentle man, shoot a 77. Who BTW only hit his 6 iron 120 yards. I believe Chad might have a good point.

Hitting my PW 100 yards. 10% swing effort 99% accuracy, to 100 yards. Every day, all day. Beats 150 PW into the fringe.

Every day all day.

So needless to say, the biggest swing change was all between my ears. Learning to swing like Freddie Couples. Or Ernie Eles. Slowly. Precisely. Consistently.

Almost like molasses, syrupy sweet and slow.

It's funny how hard it is to let go of my craving for distance at the expense of my Handicap. But sitting at 20 meant I had no choice.

Jmtc

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Hey, I finished playing at Rock Barn today, the Jackson course. Came in with a +5 76 (par 71 there). Had one bad hole, took an 8 on the par 4 #11... my PW came up short and buried up in the sand against the lip... had to take a drop, bla-bla-bla, finished with a double-par. Other than that one hole, I played to one over, with 2 bogeys and 1 birdie.

As for the stats... 93% Fairways (86% with Driver), 72% GIR, 60% Scrambling, AND....
1.78 putts per green. 32 putts total.
10 - 2 Putts
6 - 1 Putts
2 - 3 Putts

That's an improvement , at least in the stats, over my last round, over at Larkin, where I shot a +3 75.
71% Fairways, 61% GIR, 43% Scrambling, 1.83 PPG, 33 putts total.
13 - 2 Putts
3 - 1 putts
1 - 3 putt.

Before Riddoch's books, my only other stats (I just got a Gamegolf, so I only have 3 rounds on it, one of which was before I read Riddoch's books)
were 50% Fairways, 39% GIR, 18% Scrambling, and... 2.06 putts per green, 37 putts total.
11 - 2 putts
3 - 1 putts
4 - 3 putts
Granted it was really wet and cold that day, so maybe the long game isn't generally representative of me, but I think the putting stat is pretty true to how I had been playing.

As for what specifically from Riddoch's books that I've been applying...
1. Vizualize the desired shot, focus on the target and do not focus internally (on your swing mechanics) while playing.
2. No double pendulum while putting (meaning no wrist break at all!)
3. No 1:1 tempo ratio while putting, go for 2:1.

I loved his scientific explanation of the principles. I've played golf almost 30 years, and never really "got" the visualizing thing until reading his books. Now I understand. And the stuff about double pendulums and tempo was great. I had always thought that using your wrists while putting was just a matter of preference, and even thought that I might have better feel if I used my wrists more. WRONG! And I ALWAYS thought you were SUPPOSED to have a 1:1 ratio on your backswing and downswing while putting. That's what I was trying to do. WRONG!

So for me, just putting those few principles into place has made a tremendous difference in my stats and scores. Especially being able to take 4-5 strokes off the top just from the improved putting.
 
Great round, Dan.

And Johan, keep working on the short game and putting. It will take time, but I promise if you put the right work in, it will pay off. Sounds like you're doing just that.
 
ChetSteadman said:
Great round, Dan.

And Johan, keep working on the short game and putting. It will take time, but I promise if you put the right work in, it will pay off. Sounds like you're doing just that.
Click to expand...
Shot a 104 yesterday. Wet conditions. Long game sucked. Too many penalties on out of bounds drives. Hooks were to blame. Also hitting irons too flush. As if that were a flaw. But as you can imagine if you set up for a 150 yard 7 iron and hit it 170 or a 130 yard 8 iron and hit it 155. I was missing everything one to two clubs long.

Hit light was putting. I hit 3 or 4 snakes from 20 feet and 90 percent inside 5 feet. Or at least that's how it felt.

The putting book is working like a charm. The quite eye training works. Focusing on the hole for 3 to 5 seconds then use the right brain and putt. Read the putting book for details.

Using the fall line to aim all my putts has taken the guess work out of putts and green reading. And speed control based on automatic subconscious trust is working so far. At least much better than analysis and paralysis.

I have been trying to slow my swing down but I have to confess. I'm not a slow walking, slow talking type. Ernie Eles is a great player but I think I'm more in the Lee Trevino, Tiger Woods camp. Take a hard lash at the ball with total commitment. I been trying to put a pause at the top of my back swing in to my game. But it looks more like a Charles Barkley stutter than a golf swing.

Any ways.

Today I'm reading several wedge and short game books.

I have read several long game full swing books but haven't found anything yet I would care to recommend. Everyone has basically take a page from the great Ben Hogan book 5 lessons and tried to improve upon it. Non have been very successful in my opinion.

Lag and forward shaft lean rules. My 12 year old of course has no problem with this concept. Playing since 6 year old. I play since 18. Now 50. Can't get it done.

Help swing changes killed Tiger now they are killing me.



BluesManDan said:
Hey, I finished playing at Rock Barn today, the Jackson course. Came in with a +5 76 (par 71 there). Had one bad hole, took an 8 on the par 4 #11... my PW came up short and buried up in the sand against the lip... had to take a drop, bla-bla-bla, finished with a double-par. Other than that one hole, I played to one over, with 2 bogeys and 1 birdie.

As for the stats... 93% Fairways (86% with Driver), 72% GIR, 60% Scrambling, AND....
1.78 putts per green. 32 putts total.
10 - 2 Putts
6 - 1 Putts
2 - 3 Putts

That's an improvement , at least in the stats, over my last round, over at Larkin, where I shot a +3 75.
71% Fairways, 61% GIR, 43% Scrambling, 1.83 PPG, 33 putts total.
13 - 2 Putts
3 - 1 putts
1 - 3 putt.

Before Riddoch's books, my only other stats (I just got a Gamegolf, so I only have 3 rounds on it, one of which was before I read Riddoch's books)
were 50% Fairways, 39% GIR, 18% Scrambling, and... 2.06 putts per green, 37 putts total.
11 - 2 putts
3 - 1 putts
4 - 3 putts
Granted it was really wet and cold that day, so maybe the long game isn't generally representative of me, but I think the putting stat is pretty true to how I had been playing.

As for what specifically from Riddoch's books that I've been applying...
1. Vizualize the desired shot, focus on the target and do not focus internally (on your swing mechanics) while playing.
2. No double pendulum while putting (meaning no wrist break at all!)
3. No 1:1 tempo ratio while putting, go for 2:1.

I loved his scientific explanation of the principles. I've played golf almost 30 years, and never really "got" the visualizing thing until reading his books. Now I understand. And the stuff about double pendulums and tempo was great. I had always thought that using your wrists while putting was just a matter of preference, and even thought that I might have better feel if I used my wrists more. WRONG! And I ALWAYS thought you were SUPPOSED to have a 1:1 ratio on your backswing and downswing while putting. That's what I was trying to do. WRONG!

So for me, just putting those few principles into place has made a tremendous difference in my stats and scores. Especially being able to take 4-5 strokes off the top just from the improved putting.
Click to expand...


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Johan185 said:
Shot a 104 yesterday. Wet conditions. Long game sucked. Too many penalties on out of bounds drives. Hooks were to blame. Also hitting irons too flush. As if that were a flaw. But as you can imagine if you set up for a 150 yard 7 iron and hit it 170 or a 130 yard 8 iron and hit it 155. I was missing everything one to two clubs long.

Hit light was putting. I hit 3 or 4 snakes from 20 feet and 90 percent inside 5 feet. Or at least that's how it felt.

The putting book is working like a charm. The quite eye training works. Focusing on the hole for 3 to 5 seconds then use the right brain and putt. Read the putting book for details.

Using the fall line to aim all my putts has taken the guess work out of putts and green reading. And speed control based on automatic subconscious trust is working so far. At least much better than analysis and paralysis.

I have been trying to slow my swing down but I have to confess. I'm not a slow walking, slow talking type. Ernie Eles is a great player but I think I'm more in the Lee Trevino, Tiger Woods camp. Take a hard lash at the ball with total commitment. I been trying to put a pause at the top of my back swing in to my game. But it looks more like a Charles Barkley stutter than a golf swing.

Any ways.

Today I'm reading several wedge and short game books.

I have read several long game full swing books but haven't found anything yet I would care to recommend. Everyone has basically take a page from the great Ben Hogan book 5 lessons and tried to improve upon it. Non have been very successful in my opinion.

Lag and forward shaft lean rules. My 12 year old of course has no problem with this concept. Playing since 6 year old. I play since 18. Now 50. Can't get it done.

Help swing changes killed Tiger now they are killing me.






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Click to expand...

Keep grinding dude!


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The Scratch Golfer Awakens

Johan185 said:
Shot a 104 yesterday. Wet conditions. Long game sucked. Too many penalties on out of bounds drives. Hooks were to blame. Also hitting irons too flush. As if that were a flaw. But as you can imagine if you set up for a 150 yard 7 iron and hit it 170 or a 130 yard 8 iron and hit it 155. I was missing everything one to two clubs long.

Hit light was putting. I hit 3 or 4 snakes from 20 feet and 90 percent inside 5 feet. Or at least that's how it felt.

The putting book is working like a charm. The quite eye training works. Focusing on the hole for 3 to 5 seconds then use the right brain and putt. Read the putting book for details.

Using the fall line to aim all my putts has taken the guess work out of putts and green reading. And speed control based on automatic subconscious trust is working so far. At least much better than analysis and paralysis.

I have been trying to slow my swing down but I have to confess. I'm not a slow walking, slow talking type. Ernie Eles is a great player but I think I'm more in the Lee Trevino, Tiger Woods camp. Take a hard lash at the ball with total commitment. I been trying to put a pause at the top of my back swing in to my game. But it looks more like a Charles Barkley stutter than a golf swing.

Any ways.

Today I'm reading several wedge and short game books.

I have read several long game full swing books but haven't found anything yet I would care to recommend. Everyone has basically take a page from the great Ben Hogan book 5 lessons and tried to improve upon it. Non have been very successful in my opinion.

Lag and forward shaft lean rules. My 12 year old of course has no problem with this concept. Playing since 6 year old. I play since 18. Now 50. Can't get it done.

Help swing changes killed Tiger now they are killing me.






Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Total observation here- but - it sounds like you are over thinking it big time. When you get to the course- play golf not focus on golf swing.


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Hey Johan, good job bringing those putts home! From what you wrote, it sounds like you "got" what Riddoch said, too.

As for hitting those irons "too flush" I think those are the ones you probably hit with better tempo and lag. A lagged delay will add 20 yards to a shot, since it lowers the loft slightly (hands ahead at impact) and increases the clubhead speed in the impact area while getting some kick from the shaft. Just remember to release THROUGH the ball, not AT the ball. A swing thought that I use is "split the log"... I think of the golf club as an axe, and the ball is the end of a 2 foot log lying on the ground, with the extra two feet stretching out toward the target. I've got to take my axe and split the log. Keeps the club square (since nobody twists an axe) and makes me power through the shot, and you have to stay down because you've got to get the axe head all the way through the log. Greg Norman used a similar swing thought, though his was with a sledge hammer... he's where I originally got the idea. It helps me delay my wrist release and keep things straight.
 
Also hitting irons too flush. As if that were a flaw. But as you can imagine if you set up for a 150 yard 7 iron and hit it 170 or a 130 yard 8 iron and hit it 155. I was missing everything one to two clubs long.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...sounds like you have a GI irons problem...Go back to the blades;)
 
Heading to another tournament in a couple of weeks. Will be bagging the XR Pro's, 2 wedges, 2 hybrids, a 3 wood and a M1 9.5 driver. Putter of course.

Should beat my 133 by a few strokes. I hope.

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Good luck at the tourney! Rooting for you!
 
The new swing is finally starting to feel better

Old swing dead and buried

Chip and putt stable

Ready to lower my handicap

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Your climate will only help with your progress.The golfers here in the Midwest sure don't have that luxury.
 
Train in a PVC swing ring daily, and grove a solid swing plane, 15 mins a day for a month and your old swing will be gone...and you won't be paying for lessons so much, this will be your single biggest improvement IMO...give it a go!

https://www.superswingtrainer.com/
 
Shot a 90 yesterday. Nothing amazing. But the mental aspects was the mist significant part.

I started par par boogie par. So I thought. Okay I'm playing pretty well. I can relax and enjoy my round.

Boom. Big mistake. Next hole double boogie. Take home message. Eternal vigilant. Never let down your guard.

Focused after a couple of holes back to pars and boogies but the damage had already been done.

So to shoot in the 80' s I don't need a new swing, which of course doesn't hurt. I need a new mental approach to the game.

Will read more about the mental aspects of getting down into the Scratch Zone.

This is the next big step

Putting was still pretty good. Only a couple of three putts.

Nothing spectacular but no severe missed putts or misread greens.

The greens were slow. El Niño weather in SoCal. Wet and soggy conditions. Stemp 9.5. But they were true , rolling pretty straight.



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Nice round! It is amazing how much of this game is mental and course management.
 
98 in tournament pay tournament play. Blue tee's. Putter and long game engaged. Now it's time to sharpen the chipper.

Scratch Village in my sights.

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LSMO said:
Nice round! It is amazing how much of this game is mental and course management.
Click to expand...

The lower your index goes, the more mental it becomes. Putting is about 80% mental for me.
 
tahoebum said:
The lower your index goes, the more mental it becomes. Putting is about 80% mental for me.
Click to expand...
I hear yeah. I'm just keeping positive. I I never get there it. O. K.

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Keep going. Try this. One pitch, one putt every hole. On all holes.
 
Update time. Handicap not change.

Swing. Amazing. Finally starting to feel the hard work pay off. Tight draws. Fades go the same distances as draws. Hooks under control. Currently hitting fades as preferred shot shape.

Putting significantly improved. Seldom three putts. Lag putting inside 6 feet, which could always be improved.

Now biggest flaw is 100 yards or less shots. Need to sharpen feel and touch around greens.

Game management may also be my Achilles heel. If I could limit myself to hitting a hybrid to the middle of the fairway instead of a driver into the ruff my handicap would drop 5 strokes.

Need to work on thinking and playing like a scratch player more than I need improvements in my skill set.

With a little discipline I could be sitting in the 80' soon.

For example after I have 3 or 4 pars in a row I have a bad hole. Not unexpected. But I let it linger for the next few holes before I shake it off and focus again.

These mental errors are a greater flaw right now than the swing and putting flaws.

BTW I am playing from 6 to 6.5k yards so distance isn't the issue just focus and accuracy.

M2c

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