We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Natalie Gulbis - Slow Play On Tour

HoosierGolfer said:
People need to learn to play the way I was taught. I was not allowed by my father to play on the course until I had a series of lessons and spend hours and hours on the range. Once he did take me out, I was only allowed double bogey on any hole, then you picked up and moved on.
Click to expand...

Ill disagree that everyone should be forced to take lessons and spend hours on the range. There are golfers who,don't have the resources financially or with time to do all that or the desire to take lessons or practice. When I started playing I didn't have any lessons and saw the range a couple times and while I was shooting some big scores I never held up my group and there were even times me and my buddy who was also learning the game were in the same group and out foursome were never considered slow. It's about being ready to play when you get to your ball.

as far as score picking up after a certain score whether double bogey or double par may help pace of play i will say it doesn't guarantee it. It also takes the ability for new golfers to learn to chip and putt because they may have reached that score before getting on the green.
 
I like what Natalie had to say. One thing I think helps beginners is learning to play walking versus riding. You go straight to your ball, assess your situation and hit your next shot. Obviously this isn't possible at every course, but the more people who learn the game walking first I believe to have an opportunity to develop good habits subconsciously. That's also not to say you can learn how to be a speedy player without it, but if your first rounds are casual with buddies at a muni on a Saturday in a cart, I think that would take more effort and awareness than most would have being new to the game.
 
......
 
HoosierGolfer said:
People need to learn to play the way I was taught. I was not allowed by my father to play on the course until I had a series of lessons and spend hours and hours on the range. Once he did take me out, I was only allowed double bogey on any hole, then you picked up and moved on.
Click to expand...

That's not realistic. Telling someone they have to take lessons before playing a course just adds to the elitist stigma associated with golf and doesn't grow the game. Not everyone's dad (or mom) knows how to swing a club - say nothing about the proper etiquette required at the course. I won't even stray into the financial elements required... In the end, we all have to be tolerant and offer assistance to those new to the game. Rather than yell at the group in front, explain what can be done to make the game more enjoyable for all involved.
 
How good or bad a player is has nothing to do with how fast a player plays. I know a few scratch players that couldn't play in less than 4 hours. If you offered them a million bucks. Conversely I know plenty of guys who can't break 100 and they play foursomes in 3 hours no problem.
HoosierGolfer said:
People need to learn to play the way I was taught. I was not allowed by my father to play on the course until I had a series of lessons and spend hours and hours on the range. Once he did take me out, I was only allowed double bogey on any hole, then you picked up and moved on.
Click to expand...
 
ArmyGolf said:
Some decent input I suppose, but IMO the entire culture of golf needs to shift from 4.5 hours (depending on course) being acceptable to 3.5 or so. Then Marshalls would actually have a leg to stand on when trying to enforce the rules.
Click to expand...

No way you are getting 150-200 rounds around a public golf course in 3.5 hours on a Saturday. To me this is pushing a foursome WAY to much. Pushing people this much just makes them not want to play.
 
tahoebum said:
I couldn't agree more. 4:15 seems to be the standard now and that pace is painful to me. I play most of my resort/public golf first tee time so I don't have to endure a 4+ hour round. Luckily my home course is normally under 4 hours even at peak times.
Click to expand...

The only way you are getting rounds under 4 hours at peak times is if you are doing very few rounds at peak times or doing 15 minute tee times.
 
HeadinSouth said:
The only way you are getting rounds under 4 hours at peak times is if you are doing very few rounds at peak times or doing 15 minute tee times.
Click to expand...
Not at all true, there are alot if private courses that prove that's not true. My old course would do 9 minute tee times and rounds very rarely eked over 4 hours, and we're frequently under 3:45
 
HeadinSouth said:
The only way you are getting rounds under 4 hours at peak times is if you are doing very few rounds at peak times or doing 15 minute tee times.
Click to expand...
A foursome that plays ready golf, doesn't have stupid pre-shot routines, and lines up their putt while the other guy is putting, and just generally doesn't dink around can play in 3.5 hours on most courses without rushing.

Like I said, the culture of casual golf needs to shift. Too many groups watch each other hit one at a time, take forever on the greens, refuse to give up on a lost ball and just otherwise take their sweet time.
 
Wake said:
Not at all true, there are alot if private courses that prove that's not true. My old course would do 9 minute tee times and rounds very rarely eked over 4 hours, and we're frequently under 3:45
Click to expand...

How many rounds/day did you do there?
 
Most all our cheaper local courses are now jammed from 8am till 2 or so with the Northern invasion, if you do not go out at 1st light you are going to play a 5 hour round minimum.

There is no way to move the old bodies around any faster and they do not give a damn, they are retired and will not even try and speed up and its no point in trying to get by them because even if the hole ahead of them is open the next hole will be the same thing.
By the back nine it looks the Living dead out there, dragging their a$$es from as close as they can get the cart to the green to putt then shuffling back to the cart and none of them play ready golf. Rangers are their buddies and just as old so they are not going to bother them. I am 57 and feel like a teenager out there.
 
ArmyGolf said:
A foursome that plays ready golf, doesn't have stupid pre-shot routines, and lines up their putt while the other guy is putting, and just generally doesn't dink around can play in 3.5 hours on most courses without rushing.

Like I said, the culture of casual golf needs to shift. Too many groups watch each other hit one at a time, take forever on the greens, refuse to give up on a lost ball and just otherwise take their sweet time.
Click to expand...

I don't know if the 'culture' of casual golf has to change. I think the way people are brought into the game has to change. Instead of the local pro teaching grip, stance and alignment, he/she should be teaching how to play vs. how to swing.

There is no reason a player cannot get to their ball, get the yardage, factor in some wind (if necessary), pick a club, take a practice swing, and then hit within 45 seconds. The problem is when they are doing this on their 10th shot to a par 4!! This is where equity stroke control should come into play, but people are not taught about it.

I do disagree about pushing people into 3.5 hour rounds. I know pace of play is an issue, but people are golfing on their free time, no need to shove them around. They can go to work for that.
 
Understanding how to speed up play is huge. Knowing that you should be pulling your club and lining up your putt while others hit is a taught behavior


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
HeadinSouth said:
I don't know if the 'culture' of casual golf has to change. I think the way people are brought into the game has to change. Instead of the local pro teaching grip, stance and alignment, he/she should be teaching how to play vs. how to swing.

There is no reason a player cannot get to their ball, get the yardage, factor in some wind (if necessary), pick a club, take a practice swing, and then hit within 45 seconds. The problem is when they are doing this on their 10th shot to a par 4!! This is where equity stroke control should come into play, but people are not taught about it.

I do disagree about pushing people into 3.5 hour rounds. I know pace of play is an issue, but people are golfing on their free time, no need to shove them around. They can go to work for that.
Click to expand...

reading previous posts, people here, in a golf forum, can't even decide what DEFINES slow play. let alone on out there on the golf course. you can't solve a problem if you can't define it. and that's the essential problem.

it's like driving on a one lane highway. everyone thinks their speed is correct and everyone else is wrong. so there are the tailgaters, and there are the people that hold up 10 cars behind them.

everyone thinks they play at a good pace and they are not the problem. the 3.5 hour player thinks the 4 hour player is too slow. the 4 hour player thinks 4.5 is too slow. the 4.5 player thinks the 4 hour and 3.5 hour player are rushing and not enjoying it.

the old guys says 'i'm retired and am entitled to take my time.' the pro says 'i have to work on my preshot routine.' the guy with kids says 'i gotta get around fast!' the old guy says 'stop pushing me!' the new golfer says 'i paid $200 for the round i'm entitled to look for my lost ball.' dawn patrol says 'i play by myself in 2.5 hours why can't everyone keep up.' scratch guy says 'i take my time on each shot but at least i don't take 8 shots per hole like these hacks.' everybody has a valid point.

people are different. people play at different paces. if you play golf(or drive), you will inevitably get stuck behind someone slower than you. unless you're first out, it's a fact of life. well, you will probably still get stuck behind the back 9 players though. :)

fwiw my preferred pace is 3.5 hours. but i think it's happened only two or three times in the past year.
 
dethman said:
reading previous posts, people here, in a golf forum, can't even decide what DEFINES slow play. let alone on out there on the golf course. you can't solve a problem if you can't define it. and that's the essential problem.

it's like driving on a one lane highway. everyone thinks their speed is correct and everyone else is wrong. so there are the tailgaters, and there are the people that hold up 10 cars behind them.

everyone thinks they play at a good pace and they are not the problem. the 3.5 hour player thinks the 4 hour player is too slow. the 4 hour player thinks 4.5 is too slow. the 4.5 player thinks the 4 hour and 3.5 hour player are rushing and not enjoying it.

the old guys says 'i'm retired and am entitled to take my time.' the pro says 'i have to work on my preshot routine.' the guy with kids says 'i gotta get around fast!' the old guy says 'stop pushing me!' the new golfer says 'i paid $200 for the round i'm entitled to look for my lost ball.' dawn patrol says 'i play by myself in 2.5 hours why can't everyone keep up.' scratch guy says 'i take my time on each shot but at least i don't take 8 shots per hole like these hacks.' everybody has a valid point.

people are different. people play at different paces. if you play golf(or drive), you will inevitably get stuck behind someone slower than you. unless you're first out, it's a fact of life. well, you will probably still get stuck behind the back 9 players though. :)

fwiw my preferred pace is 3.5 hours. but i think it's happened only two or three times in the past year.
Click to expand...
Pretty solid summary of the issue. However, when you poll golfers on what they're biggest frustration about the game of golf is the vast majority come back with slow play. I think there are more golfers that want to play in 4 hours than in 4.5+ hours.
Whenever I play at a private club (rarely) they always have strict time rules enforced in creative manners. These clubs manage to have their foursomes play in an average time that is just under 4h.
 
This is a great post and very true on all counts IMO, we (2 groups of 4) play normally in 3.5 -4 hours when it is open and to be honest I feel our group is very deliberate and could move faster. But we have fun and enjoy our time and never or rarely hold up anyone, now if I ever get to Pebble Beach and pay $495.00 for 18 I will not be rushing at all, keep up yes but I want to enjoy the view and take it all in because I doubt I will ever get back there.

It is all relative and to each his own. We are not going to change anything and neither is the PGA Tour, move too fast and you lose advertising money. The more shots of Rory, Bubba and Spieth, etc. they can get on the better for them.

dethman said:
reading previous posts, people here, in a golf forum, can't even decide what DEFINES slow play. let alone on out there on the golf course. you can't solve a problem if you can't define it. and that's the essential problem.

it's like driving on a one lane highway. everyone thinks their speed is correct and everyone else is wrong. so there are the tailgaters, and there are the people that hold up 10 cars behind them.

everyone thinks they play at a good pace and they are not the problem. the 3.5 hour player thinks the 4 hour player is too slow. the 4 hour player thinks 4.5 is too slow. the 4.5 player thinks the 4 hour and 3.5 hour player are rushing and not enjoying it.

the old guys says 'i'm retired and am entitled to take my time.' the pro says 'i have to work on my preshot routine.' the guy with kids says 'i gotta get around fast!' the old guy says 'stop pushing me!' the new golfer says 'i paid $200 for the round i'm entitled to look for my lost ball.' dawn patrol says 'i play by myself in 2.5 hours why can't everyone keep up.' scratch guy says 'i take my time on each shot but at least i don't take 8 shots per hole like these hacks.' everybody has a valid point.

people are different. people play at different paces. if you play golf(or drive), you will inevitably get stuck behind someone slower than you. unless you're first out, it's a fact of life. well, you will probably still get stuck behind the back 9 players though. :)

fwiw my preferred pace is 3.5 hours. but i think it's happened only two or three times in the past year.
Click to expand...
 
Cleveland metroparks advertises fast play fridays where they say the round will only take......





4.5 hours
 
dethman said:
reading previous posts, people here, in a golf forum, can't even decide what DEFINES slow play. let alone on out there on the golf course. you can't solve a problem if you can't define it. and that's the essential problem.

it's like driving on a one lane highway. everyone thinks their speed is correct and everyone else is wrong. so there are the tailgaters, and there are the people that hold up 10 cars behind them.

everyone thinks they play at a good pace and they are not the problem. the 3.5 hour player thinks the 4 hour player is too slow. the 4 hour player thinks 4.5 is too slow. the 4.5 player thinks the 4 hour and 3.5 hour player are rushing and not enjoying it.

the old guys says 'i'm retired and am entitled to take my time.' the pro says 'i have to work on my preshot routine.' the guy with kids says 'i gotta get around fast!' the old guy says 'stop pushing me!' the new golfer says 'i paid $200 for the round i'm entitled to look for my lost ball.' dawn patrol says 'i play by myself in 2.5 hours why can't everyone keep up.' scratch guy says 'i take my time on each shot but at least i don't take 8 shots per hole like these hacks.' everybody has a valid point.

people are different. people play at different paces. if you play golf(or drive), you will inevitably get stuck behind someone slower than you. unless you're first out, it's a fact of life. well, you will probably still get stuck behind the back 9 players though. :)

fwiw my preferred pace is 3.5 hours. but i think it's happened only two or three times in the past year.
Click to expand...

Oh boy. I'm dawn patrol + Dad with kids. Double whammy. I often try and play during the week at odd times just so I have the course to myself. It's not uncommon for me if I don't stop at the turn to play 18 in under 2 hrs. Let's just say a 4 hr + round on the weekend is pretty painful. While waiting 5 min per shot I sit there and think to myself, this is time I should be spending with my boys.

One thing that seems to work. If you play regularly with a slow player, keep throwing jabs at the dude. After a while they do speed up. I'd play with two of my neighbors and they were close friends. The one dude notoriously stood over the ball for way too long. The other guy started to give him crap for it. Now he pulls the trigger pretty quickly.
 
ntanygd760 said:
Cleveland metroparks advertises fast play fridays where they say the round will only take......





4.5 hours
Click to expand...

Scary. What's the "normal" pace ?
 
ntanygd760 said:
Cleveland metroparks advertises fast play fridays where they say the round will only take......





4.5 hours
Click to expand...
And that right there is the issue. Courses need to change before golfers are going to change.
 
ArmyGolf said:
And that right there is the issue. Courses need to change before golfers are going to change.
Click to expand...
When I first saw the ads for that, I couldn't believe it. The scorecards show 430 as the pace of play, which is another issue, so all they are saying is that you'll play to the established pace of play. Annoying.
 
I wish they'd officially change the time limit for looking for lost balls to 2 minutes.
Right now that's about 5 minutes where typically more than one person in the group is walking around and not golfing.

Other than recreational golfers copying the pros, I don't necessarily care if the pros play fast or slow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top