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Swing Videos - Help with pulling the ball

cyoung2ty

cyoung2ty

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Hey Freddie! I was told that you may be able to help, so... here I am posting swing videos in the hopes that you may have some guidance for me.

Anyway... I've played a fade (which started out as a horrible slice) for essentially the entire time I've played golf, which is going on 22 years. I've never had any real instruction, just kind of picked it up as I went along. I like to play competitively, but I find that my inconsistencies mean that I can't REALLY compete.

I played a round about 2 weeks ago in which I didn't hit a single solid shot, and it was quite possibly the worst round I've EVER played. I started looking around and found information on the grip, which I never paid much attention to. I was always told to find a grip that was comfortable, and build around that. Now I'm learning that was entirely wrong.

Based on what I found, I had a strong left hand (top) grip... but a weak right hand (bottom) grip. I would always start the ball out left and then it would either work back to my target, or it would slice well right of my target. I started tweaking my grip some at home the other day (rotating my right hand to give me a strong right hand grip) and hitting "almost golf balls" in my garage with Optishot. Almost instantly, the fade was straight and I gained clubhead speed and distance.

I know that Optishot is good for some things, but it's not all that accurate at representing the true flight of the ball, so I decided to go to the driving range this morning. I used the same grip I worked on in the garage, and while I was definitely hitting the ball much straighter... I also noticed that I had a major pull with every club in the bag.

Again, it was suggested that I post videos here, so I went back into the garage and took some videos of a few swings. One is regular speed (30 FPS), the other is slower (60 FPS).

I don't have much room in there to get a front-facing view, but... I'm hoping that you'd have some help with what I've posted so far. Anything would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance.



 
I'm sure Freddie will straighten you out. It looks to me like you are casting a bit and have an out to in swing path. Depending on your club face at impact...the ball would either go straight left, fade or slice.
 
Based on your own self evaluation, you're on the right path. Looking at the slower second clip showed me the most. You're right that your grip need some work. Obviously, that's where everything starts, as a good grip is the foundation of the swing, since that's what touches the club. I noticed a few things though. Look at the wrist angles, at 10 seconds we I can see your left wrist is already bent as you take the club away. At the top of your swing, 12 seconds, you can still see the same wrist bend. It's the exact opposite of what a Tour Pro would do. Your left wrist mimics the club face and at the top, it's closed. I'd work on trying to keep that left wrist flat and bending your right wrist instead. The old "holding a plate with a cup of water on it at the top of your swing, with your right arm drill."

Next, with the closed face then comes your over the top move, and cast flip on the down swing. ALL of these would cause your pull. The over the top move gets you outside the line and with your cast flip, it does close the face to fast, and you'll have that pull. If your cast does catch up, you'll see the pull slice.

So, look how you come up to the top of your swing with your arms on the take away, do your best to keep your spine angle and try to attack the ball from the inside and hit it at the 4 o'clock position on the ball. As of right now, you're hitting the ball at more like the 2 o'clock position.

You have a lot of very common faults that a lot of armatures make. If I'm being honest, it would probably be best to work on this in parts. You have about 5 or 6 things you need to work on, all of which will take practice and time. All of which are going to feel "weird" until you correct them. This isn't going to be an overnight fix. Don't get frustrated, focus and work hard, and you'll get there.
 
Agent Jay said:
Based on your own self evaluation, you're on the right path. Looking at the slower second clip showed me the most. You're right that your grip need some work. Obviously, that's where everything starts, as a good grip is the foundation of the swing, since that's what touches the club. I noticed a few things though. Look at the wrist angles, at 10 seconds we I can see your left wrist is already bent as you take the club away. At the top of your swing, 12 seconds, you can still see the same wrist bend. It's the exact opposite of what a Tour Pro would do. Your left wrist mimics the club face and at the top, it's closed. I'd work on trying to keep that left wrist flat and bending your right wrist instead. The old "holding a plate with a cup of water on it at the top of your swing, with your right arm drill."
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First off... thank you! I read your post and I was confused. Like I mentioned, I never had a lesson... so a lot of what you were saying went over my head initially. I went and looked up the cup of water on a plate drill you mentioned and found a YouTube video that explained it. I went into the garage and started by just placing my arms and hands in those positions. It definitely felt odd to me.

I then started taking slow swings from that position and I felt like I was going to hit my right hip on the way down. At first, it was tough... but as I started to increase the speed of my swings, I found my hips clearing out of the way and it felt better.

I moved on to trying to consciously feel like my left wrist was pointed more towards the ceiling at the top of my swings and then started to hit balls. I probably took 40 swings, and I instantly noticed even more clubhead speed and that about 15-20 of those 40 swings registered as a straight swing path and about 10-15 registered with a closed or square club face.

Of the last 10 balls I hit... at least 6 were with a straight swing path and most of those had a closed club face.

The club I was swinging, an 8 iron, is typically a club I hit from 140. With Optishot, it's been registering at about 130 yards on average. With the tweak at the top, it was registering at about 145-155 each swing... and a few carried about 165.

I'm going to go back in this afternoon when I have some time and video some more swings to post to see if anything has changed.

Either way... I sincerely appreciate the feedback and will work on that change first before I work on casting (which I need to find a drill for anyway).

Again... thank you!
 
freddie will get you fixed up if you let him. one thing that has helped me is on the downswing feel like i jamb my right elbow into my right pocket. this will get the club coming from the inside quickly. it will feel like the club head is dropping down to the ground behind your back.
 
freddie's probably tied up with the event this weekend and trying to get ducks in a row. i'm sure he'll chime in with some great advice. the biggest thing i see is that your arms push away from your body to initiate the downswing, rather than dropping to the inside. this is pretty classic over-the-top, and if you're working to strengthen your grip then you could be getting the clubface square to the out-to-in path causing the dead pull. i'd like to see you try some jim furyk-type swings, or david ledbetter's a-swing. really feel those arms work under the plane. for being self-taught, it looks pretty good just a couple tweaks and you'll be on a whole new level.
 
Here's what it looks like this afternoon. I THINK I took what you were saying and put it into practice, but you'll have to let me know what you think.



I figure Freddie is busy with what's goin' on this weekend. I'm in no hurry, really. But I definitely appreciate all the feedback from each of you.

After I get comfortable with the first part (assuming this is what the target was)... I'll move on to the path. I like the thought of jamming my right elbow into my right pocket... I'll just have to practice it a lot.

A few years ago when Ray Romano was on the Haney Project, I remember him being told to exaggerate the drop to the inside. I tried doing it then, but because it wasn't comfortable... I got away from it. I'll have to try the Furyk loop to get that feel, because that's what it reminded me of when Haney was trying to teach Ray how to do that.

Again... thanks so much guys. I appreciate the feedback.
 
cyoung2ty said:
A few years ago when Ray Romano was on the Haney Project, I remember him being told to exaggerate the drop to the inside. I tried doing it then, but because it wasn't comfortable... I got away from it. I'll have to try the Furyk loop to get that feel, because that's what it reminded me of when Haney was trying to teach Ray how to do that.
Click to expand...

exactly. on all of those haney projects, he pretty much did the same thing with everybody. take the club back outside, then loop it under the plane swinging out to the right (for a righty). that's what i want you to focus on. if you watch the latest video and really focus on what happens as you transition into the downswing, the arms move away from your body and you really stand up, losing your spine angle. if you were to come more from the inside, you could just clear your left hip and let everything release down the line. to me, that's a much bigger deal than your position at the top. very few two tour players look the exact same during or even at the top of their the backswing, but they all look really similar during the downswing and into impact.
 
Let me preface my comments below by saying I'm in no way qualified to give you advice, they are just observations from the updated video you posted...

What catches my eye is the transition in your backswing from 0:04 to 0:06. Starting at the 0:04 point, it appears you now are getting the club too flat at the top (think of the plate drill). If you were to draw a line from the end of the club toward the ball, the line would not meet up with the ball. Go back and look at your position at 0:03 - the club and butt of the club is aligned with the ball if you were to draw a line between them. Beginning at 0:04 you lose this position and first become too flat (or stop rotating your waist) and then lift your hands too high, resulting in you having to come over the top (0:05 to 0:06) and "popping up" in your stance...and those both can/will result in a fade/slice.

Try to keep the club and butt end of the club aligned with the ball at the top of your swing. This may require you to make/take a shorter backswing, but it will get you in the proper position to make cleaner contact with the ball / stop slicing. You want the swing to remain fluid and to avoid having multiple angles...clean and aligned back, clean and aligned to contact. Hope that makes sense.


Again, these are just my observations. Good luck!!
 
As far as I'm concerned... I'm here asking for help and everybody is welcome to offer their help! I appreciate it, and it gives me different views at which to see my swing.

I noticed the same thing about my swing looking really flat at the top, almost like I was getting ready to swing a baseball bat. I didn't notice my spine angle until you guys pointed it out, so now it gives me something else to try and focus on. I really stand up in the swing... and I can see how that would be bad, and how it leads to a steep swing.

I'll have to try and make that swing shallower... I just don't know how to do that, so... I'm off to YouTube to find some drills!

Honestly... the more eyes and opinions... the better! Thanks everybody!
 
A simple suggestion would be to start in the position you WANT to be in at the top -- don't take a backswing, start already "loaded" and ready to make your downswing. Record yourself from that position to see if that keeps you from popping up, being flat, or coming over the top.

If you don't notice those issues, now you just need to work on getting your backswing to that position and then make your swing.
 
stevie-a said:
A simple suggestion would be to start in the position you WANT to be in at the top -- don't take a backswing, start already "loaded" and ready to make your downswing. Record yourself from that position to see if that keeps you from popping up, being flat, or coming over the top.

If you don't notice those issues, now you just need to work on getting your backswing to that position and then make your swing.
Click to expand...

That's how I flattened the wrist at the top. Definitely a good idea to get myself in the position I want or need to be in and work my way up to there.

I hit some more in the garage today. Although it's really difficult to get any real perspective on it since they're not really golf balls and the simulator doesn't account for mishits (thin shots, especially)... the fact that when I KNOW I strike the ball well it's showing that way on the screen helps me a lot.

I'll probably stick with what I've got for the next week since I'm playing a tournament next Saturday... but then I'll tweak some more.

As always... thanks again for the feedback!
 
Okay... so yesterday was another disaster on the course. I'm pulling the ball more now than when I started. If I aim about 15 yards right of my target... 1 in 4 will find the target... 1 in 4 will finish right of the target... and the other 2 will still be left of the target.

Anybody have any ideas? Someone mentioned ball position may be too far forward... someone else mentioned grip pressure might be too tight. Personally, I believe it's my over the top move that's the biggest issue.

Does anybody have some drills I can use to learn to come from the inside? I've tried the 'pump' drill... but I still can't get myself to swing from the inside. I've seen videos on using a pool noodle to hang over the ball and to learn not to hit the noodle. I may try that one, but... something has got to give. My last 2 rounds have made me feel so incompetent with a club in my hand that I'm ashamed to be playing tournaments.
 
Throw a headcover down outside your ball and back 6-12". If you come over the top, you'll hit it. Also, try to hit the inside part of the ball.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
I like putting the club in your right pocket or try to keep your left arm as close to your chest as possible. Both do similar things for me.
 
I kinda of figured the other suggestion would dial you in, so I didn't weigh in. But it seems you're still having issues. You have a very big over the top move down into the ball. You start the downswing with your arms and hands and this is very typical of an over the top move. It won't matter where you place the ball in your stance as that club is moving from left to right.

The easiest drill is to drop that back foot off the line, thereby closing your stance to the target. The club will follow the foot line on the way back. On the down swing you want to start with the left hip rotating way from the ball which will drop your hands down toward the right hip pocket. From here you're in the slot and just need to swing down the line. If you stay down and they you should see a sweeping draw. If you don't then you'll see a block fade.

I also like to hit punch shots to get more inside. Same closed stance but 1/2 and 3/4 swing keeping the hands low. You have to aim right and trust the it's moving back to the left.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I kinda of figured the other suggestion would dial you in, so I didn't weigh in. But it seems you're still having issues. You have a very big over the top move down into the ball. You start the downswing with your arms and hands and this is very typical of an over the top move. It won't matter where you place the ball in your stance as that club is moving from left to right.

The easiest drill is to drop that back foot off the line, thereby closing your stance to the target. The club will follow the foot line on the way back. On the down swing you want to start with the left hip rotating way from the ball which will drop your hands down toward the right hip pocket. From here you're in the slot and just need to swing down the line. If you stay down and they you should see a sweeping draw. If you don't then you'll see a block fade.

I also like to hit punch shots to get more inside. Same closed stance but 1/2 and 3/4 swing keeping the hands low. You have to aim right and trust the it's moving back to the left.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the drills, everybody!

Freddie... I went to the range this morning between visits and used a combination of your suggestion and the suggestion from moosejaa, but instead of using a headcover, I used a tee. I hit 75 balls... all with my 6 iron. I clipped the tee way too often, but by the end of the session, I was seeing some success in getting the ball to start slightly right and draw back in. It felt off to me, so I wanted to practice some more.

I came home this afternoon after some meetings and continued to work in my garage. Optishot was telling me that I was still coming from the outside, so I put a headcover down and angled it to the right. It took a few swings before I exaggerated it and started coming from the inside. It began registering as a straight path!

Altogether... I took probably 250 swings today. Towards the end, I took some video from my garage. They're below.

To my untrained eye... they look slightly better, but I really have no idea what I'm looking for other than my arms. They don't seem to be pulling away from my body as much as they were... and it looks like my lead hip is firing early. Still... whatever you guys see would be appreciated. I'll continue to work on these drills for the next several days.



 
You are still starting the down swing with your arms and not your lower body. As long as that continues to happen you will be slightly over the top mom attest what you try

Have you ever thought about embracing the OTT move and playing a fade? Aim left and swing hard?
 
Tadashi70 said:
You are still starting the down swing with your arms and not your lower body. As long as that continues to happen you will be slightly over the top mom attest what you try

Have you ever thought about embracing the OTT move and playing a fade? Aim left and swing hard?
Click to expand...

Dang... I thought it was better.

LOL

I've been playing for 22 years with the OTT move. I used to have a severe slice... like 50+ yards with every swing. I temporarily played a draw with my driver about 6 years ago for a single season... and then when I started up the next season, it was gone and I couldn't get it back. Since then... it's been either a straight shot or a big pull-hook with my driver with the occasional block-fade, and my irons have always been a fade.

With being in the Regional Rivalry, it's inspired me to work on my game. Especially after seeing some of the really good swings from the Kickoff Classic. Last season, especially towards the end, I was posting high 80's to low 90's scores pretty consistently. My first 2 tournament rounds of this season have been abysmal. I could probably just stick with the OTT move, but then I don't think I'd get any better... which is the goal.

When you say I need to start the swing with my lower body, you're talking about firing the left hip towards the target before anything else starts moving... correct? I know feel isn't real... but I feel like that's what I was doing most of today. I'll have to continue to work on getting the swing started with my lower body over the next few days.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
blugold said:
I like putting the club in your right pocket or try to keep your left arm as close to your chest as possible. Both do similar things for me.
Click to expand...

I like this idea. Another way to think about it is imagining you're throwing the golf ball with your right/rear hand side armed or like skipping a rock across water. It helps me get the right elbow tucked and towards the right pocket. But you also have to keep your spine angle, so I think about keeping my head still/in the same position a little longer during the swing. So it's the side armed throw while bent over. You could do it in the garage while holding a golf club up in front of you like in this image (this is not me and some pic I found on google - sorry for the poor quality):

hqdefault.jpg


Some other swing thoughts include swing with the handle and not the club head, or treating the handle as sort of a battering ram where the grip end is swinging toward the ball/target line. I've found that I have to be careful with this drill because I can pull the club toward my body on accident and strike the ball off the edge of the toe.

You might also try "hitting" the ball like an upper cut or bent over hook punch, versus trying the "backhand" the ball with your left hand. The backhand idea causes me to use too much of my shoulders to start the downswing and focusing on the right hand improved my impact and face to path relationship significantly. It won't work for everyone though and if you hang back while focusing on the right hand you'll likely hit hooks.
 
-CRW- said:
I like this idea. Another way to think about it is imagining you're throwing the golf ball with your right/rear hand side armed or like skipping a rock across water. It helps me get the right elbow tucked and towards the right pocket. But you also have to keep your spine angle, so I think about keeping my head still/in the same position a little longer during the swing. So it's the side armed throw while bent over. You could do it in the garage while holding a golf club up in front of you like in this image (this is not me and some pic I found on google - sorry for the poor quality)
Click to expand...


I like this idea... it's easy to think about and something I can put into practice.

Thanks!
 
cyoung2ty said:
I like this idea... it's easy to think about and something I can put into practice.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think the more you reach for these quick fixes the worse you're going to get. These drills are good if you have other things in place. I understand you are trying to get better but maybe you should go see a pro.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I think the more you reach for these quick fixes the worse you're going to get. These drills are good if you have other things in place. I understand you are trying to get better but maybe you should go see a pro.
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For what it's worth, I saw a pro for over 2 years (30+ lessons) and still struggled with pieces of the swing (and still do, but to a much lesser extent). It's not a knock on the pro, I like him and still use him. But he can only tell me something so many times before I have to figure out what thought/feel I need to accomplish what he wants me to do. Sometimes finding a simple swing thought, like the side armed throw for me, makes all the difference in the world. I'm not saying this will be the one for Cyoungt2y, but it's certainly worth spending some time on. He'll never know if he doesn't try. My instructor advocates this as well.
 
-CRW- said:
For what it's worth, I saw a pro for over 2 years (30+ lessons) and still struggled with pieces of the swing (and still do, but to a much lesser extent). It's not a knock on the pro, I like him and still use him. But he can only tell me something so many times before I have to figure out what thought/feel I need to accomplish what he wants me to do. Sometimes finding a simple swing thought, like the side armed throw for me, makes all the difference in the world. I'm not saying this will be the one for Cyoungt2y, but it's certainly worth spending some time on. He'll never know if he doesn't try. My instructor advocates this as well.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth you have a blue print from your pro. This blue print allows you to add a drill such as this and make it work. When you don't have a blue print of a swing and you add random tips, it can set you back.

I am able to add suggested tips because this is a solid base to build on. Typically a tip such as this will work because it provided a push and not a huge adjustment.
 
Tadashi70 said:
I think the more you reach for these quick fixes the worse you're going to get. These drills are good if you have other things in place. I understand you are trying to get better but maybe you should go see a pro.
Click to expand...
I've been researching teaching pros in my area and I definitely plan to see one soon. I figure if I'm legitimately trying to get better, the only true way is to practice... and practice the right way.

Until I do get to see one, I'm just trying not to lose my mind or my passion for the game (which THP has brought back to me).

Sent From My Samsung Note 4 Using Tapatalk
 
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