CAA_Beat

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I posted this in the practice thread, as it was a result of my practice session today. But thought it might get more attention here.

Spent 20 minutes on the putting green this afternoon. It was pretty soggy so I was mainly working on my stroke and not focusing as much on the ball going in. Oddly enough they went in at a pretty high rate...go figure.

But I discovered something unusual (for me). I always thought there were two primary ways of putting. A very handsy way or a rock the shoulders method. I have always been more of rock the shoulders type.

But it in varying my strokes I noticed at one point I was using my arms more than the hands and shoulders. This didn't feel very natural but the results were very good.

So so does anyone else putt with arms more so than hands or shoulders?
 
I use a shoulder rock and hands are very quiet in my stroke.
 
But I discovered something unusual (for me). I always thought there were two primary ways of putting. A very handsy way or a rock the shoulders method. I have always been more of rock the shoulders type.

But it in varying my strokes I noticed at one point I was using my arms more than the hands and shoulders. This didn't feel very natural but the results were very good.

So so does anyone else putt with arms more so than hands or shoulders?


I have discussed this in some of the various putting threads. There a multiple sources of motion to move the putter and well known advocates of each method. Shoulders seems to be the most common and what people on this forum seem to lean toward. Others would be arms around the shoulders, right arm dominant, and left arm dominant. I personally am left side dominant. By selecting one of the methods there is an impact to the putting stroke. As an example a left side dominant stroke will have a tendency to shift the path of the putter to the left.
 
I use my arms more than anything else in my putting stroke. I try to keep my shoulders and hands quiet and roll my arms though my putting stroke.
 
I use my arms more than anything else in my putting stroke. I try to keep my shoulders and hands quiet and roll my arms though my putting stroke.
It may seem odd. But today was the first time I have ever done that, and I didn't do it on purpose, I just "felt" it at one point then experimented back and forth with it and then the rock the shoulder.

In amy case I found it intersting to me that I had only ever thought of two motions.
 
I use a shoulder rock and hands are very quiet in my stroke.
That is how I have putted for at least the last 20 years I would say.
 
I have recently been taught that the hands, head and lower body should be very quiet during your stroke. That leave it all up to the shoulders.
 
I try for close to a straight back straight through putting stroke and attempt to do so using my shoulders. But now that I think about it my arms are definitely involved. So maybe I'm a mix of both shoulders and arms. I do try to keep my wrists as quiet as possible.
 
I use mostly my arms with a straight back and through motion driven by my right arm with a claw grip. I think of it as my right arm acting as a piston.
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I think the shoulders method is most comfortable for me, and that's what I'll continue to use. But I just found it interesting that I "discovered" a new method kind of by accident.
 
The putting stroke will contain some amount of hand/wrist action. It has to. Otherwise if you keep your hands/wrists locked tight, you will make a poor putting stroke.

The problem of course comes in when there's too much hands/wrist or that hand/wrist action is done consciously. Then the putting stroke becomes extremely varied and extremely difficult to repeat with any consistency.

Here's my biggest two putting tips.

1) Get comfortable over the ball. Address the ball in an athletic posture which allows your arms to hang naturally. If you're not able to relax your body, you're doing it wrong.

2) Remove all tension from your stroke (step #1 being extremely important in this). Decide on your line and just let the putter flow squarely down that line without tension. This will also allow your shoulders/arms and hands/wrists to work naturally, with the proper amount of input from each.

The fine folks at SeeMore deserve credit for pointing out #2 to me. It was like a bolt of lighting when I realized how much tension had been in my stroke, and the improvement was immediate and dramatic.
 
The putting stroke will contain some amount of hand/wrist action. It has to. Otherwise if you keep your hands/wrists locked tight, you will make a poor putting stroke.

The problem of course comes in when there's too much hands/wrist or that hand/wrist action is done consciously. Then the putting stroke becomes extremely varied and extremely difficult to repeat with any consistency.

Here's my biggest two putting tips.

1) Get comfortable over the ball. Address the ball in an athletic posture which allows your arms to hang naturally. If you're not able to relax your body, you're doing it wrong.

2) Remove all tension from your stroke (step #1 being extremely important in this). Decide on your line and just let the putter flow squarely down that line without tension. This will also allow your shoulders/arms and hands/wrists to work naturally, with the proper amount of input from each.

The fine folks at SeeMore deserve credit for pointing out #2 to me. It was like a bolt of lighting when I realized how much tension had been in my stroke, and the improvement was immediate and dramatic.
FWIW, I disagree with that first section a lot. My hands/wrist are quiet in the stroke and I do not make poor strokes. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
 
FWIW, I disagree with that first section a lot. My hands/wrist are quiet in the stroke and I do not make poor strokes. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Exactly the same here. My hands are kept super still with no movement in my putting stroke. If I start having some wrist movement, I start missing putts.
 
FWIW, I disagree with that first section a lot. My hands/wrist are quiet in the stroke and I do not make poor strokes. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I think we have disconnect in terms or I stated it poorly. Hands/wrists being quiet does not equal no movement at all. I have very little movement of my hands/wrists in my putting stroke. But in any tension-free putting stroke, there will be small unconscious movements of the hands/wrists.

I was referring to the person who locks their muscles trying to be steel-rod firm in their hands and wrists. If you are trying to keep your hands/wrists locked, you're going to introduce a lot of tension into your stroke. That's all I was attempting to say.
 
I think we have disconnect in terms or I stated it poorly. Hands/wrists being quiet does not equal no movement at all. I have very little movement of my hands/wrists in my putting stroke. But in any tension-free putting stroke, there will be small unconscious movements of the hands/wrists.

I was referring to the person who locks their muscles trying to be steel-rod firm in their hands and wrists. If you are trying to keep your hands/wrists locked, you're going to introduce a lot of tension into your stroke. That's all I was attempting to say.
I still disagree, the reason I went to SPi is because it puts the big muscles in charge of the stroke, my stroke is a rock of the bug muscles. As war stated, if my hands or wrists get involved in any manner, my putting goes to crap. Hence why I always practice at home with no thumbs on the grip, hands and wrists are out of the equation.
 
I tried it once during a practice session after watching some video of a tournament in the early 70s. I did make a few more shorter putts, but about the same number mid and long distance putts. Didn't change my strike though.
 
I still disagree, the reason I went to SPi is because it puts the big muscles in charge of the stroke, my stroke is a rock of the bug muscles. As war stated, if my hands or wrists get involved in any manner, my putting goes to crap. Hence why I always practice at home with no thumbs on the grip, hands and wrists are out of the equation.

after watching the SeeMore videos and now the POB DVD I am the same way. It's shoulder rock and no hands/wrists. The no thumbs drill was huge for me getting the POB grip and the concept of shoulder rock.
 
I'm firmly in the rock the shoulders camp after trying every other putting style/grip over the years. I think many recreational golfers could improve their putting by taking excessive wrist, leg, and head movement out of their strokes. I certainly work hard at keeping my head and legs very still but it's easy for me to get sloppy and have it creep back into my putting.
 
I still disagree, the reason I went to SPi is because it puts the big muscles in charge of the stroke, my stroke is a rock of the bug muscles. As war stated, if my hands or wrists get involved in any manner, my putting goes to crap. Hence why I always practice at home with no thumbs on the grip, hands and wrists are out of the equation.

My instruction comes via an SPi instructor as well, not to mention SeeMore themselves. I do still think we're saying the same thing but just stating it differently. I am in no way advocating someone become handsy/wristy in their stroke. I also putt with zero thumb pressure and often practice without thumbs. But I disagree the hands/wrists have no involvement even in the most SPi-ish stroke. Certainly one tries to move away from any conscious input of the wrists/hands. But unless you're going to be stone-rigid, there is going to be natural unconscious involvement of the wrists/hands during the stroke, even if just to maintain the putter in position so the big muscles can swing it.

My point was if someone tries to completely eliminate hands/wrists by being stone-rigid, they're going to introduce tension. However, if they try to be tension-free, the hands/wrists are going to work in an unconscious manner (of micro-movements), allowing them to use the big muscles and still remain tension-free.

That make sense? If not, we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
I've always been a quite base, triangle shoulder and arms to the putter, all in the shoulders, type of putter. Less is more with the putting stroke in my mind.
 
My instruction comes via an SPi instructor as well, not to mention SeeMore themselves. I do still think we're saying the same thing but just stating it differently. I am in no way advocating someone become handsy/wristy in their stroke. I also putt with zero thumb pressure and often practice without thumbs. But I disagree the hands/wrists have no involvement even in the most SPi-ish stroke. Certainly one tries to move away from any conscious input of the wrists/hands. But unless you're going to be stone-rigid, there is going to be natural unconscious involvement of the wrists/hands during the stroke, even if just to maintain the putter in position so the big muscles can swing it.

My point was if someone tries to completely eliminate hands/wrists by being stone-rigid, they're going to introduce tension. However, if they try to be tension-free, the hands/wrists are going to work in an unconscious manner (of micro-movements), allowing them to use the big muscles and still remain tension-free.

That make sense? If not, we'll have to agree to disagree.
We will definitely have to agree to disagree.
 
I posted this in the practice thread, as it was a result of my practice session today. But thought it might get more attention here.

Spent 20 minutes on the putting green this afternoon. It was pretty soggy so I was mainly working on my stroke and not focusing as much on the ball going in. Oddly enough they went in at a pretty high rate...go figure.

But I discovered something unusual (for me). I always thought there were two primary ways of putting. A very handsy way or a rock the shoulders method. I have always been more of rock the shoulders type.

But it in varying my strokes I noticed at one point I was using my arms more than the hands and shoulders. This didn't feel very natural but the results were very good.

So so does anyone else putt with arms more so than hands or shoulders?

I usually don't over-exaggerate with my shoulders but that's more of a me thing than anything else. I use some power in the stroke because it's what I seem to be able to promote the best roll with, and I think putting is all about getting the head back into a neutral position at impact, followed by getting that end over end roll produced on a ball as fast as humanly possible.

Watch Sneds putt and I think you'll see everything you need to know -- Putting has a ton of fundamentals that benefit a lot of people, but there's also nothing wrong with building your own stroke that works for you. Path, neutral at impact, end over end, pace, and line. However you get to that is up to you, and however much you practice is typically how much success you'll have.

What I loved about SPi was the ability to produce a repeatable stroke without the concerns of things like forward shaft lean, and neutralizing a lot or problem areas that amateurs tend to ignore when attempting to putt. But, that shoulder rotational stroke isn't the perfect fit for everyone, and anyone who takes the time to get some SPI training would probably tell you they added some useful tools to what they deem to be their own personal stroke. I encourage that a lot.

At the end of the day, do what works for you Rob, but don't sacrifice overall consistency for a couple made putts a round.
 
after watching the SeeMore videos and now the POB DVD I am the same way. It's shoulder rock and no hands/wrists. The no thumbs drill was huge for me getting the POB grip and the concept of shoulder rock.
I'll have to check out this video as the no thumbs drill is new to me.

Good conversation in here, thanks everyone
 
I usually don't over-exaggerate with my shoulders but that's more of a me thing than anything else. I use some power in the stroke because it's what I seem to be able to promote the best roll with, and I think putting is all about getting the head back into a neutral position at impact, followed by getting that end over end roll produced on a ball as fast as humanly possible.

Watch Sneds putt and I think you'll see everything you need to know -- Putting has a ton of fundamentals that benefit a lot of people, but there's also nothing wrong with building your own stroke that works for you. Path, neutral at impact, end over end, pace, and line. However you get to that is up to you, and however much you practice is typically how much success you'll have.

What I loved about SPi was the ability to produce a repeatable stroke without the concerns of things like forward shaft lean, and neutralizing a lot or problem areas that amateurs tend to ignore when attempting to putt. But, that shoulder rotational stroke isn't the perfect fit for everyone, and anyone who takes the time to get some SPI training would probably tell you they added some useful tools to what they deem to be their own personal stroke. I encourage that a lot.

At the end of the day, do what works for you Rob, but don't sacrifice overall consistency for a couple made putts a round.
Well having seen you first hand make some delicate putts as well as some that required a bit of speed to get there, that's good stuff. Thanks Dan.
 
Well having seen you first hand make some delicate putts as well as some that required a bit of speed to get there, that's good stuff. Thanks Dan.

When we played together, I was still working through my definition of how my stroke should be. It worked really well with the SeeMore putter line, but I am here openly admitting that I do make some alterations to putt with a plumbers neck (ball back a bit, hands forward a bit, more of a shallow follow through) to promote quality forward roll.

I only added this notation to say that many times, you don't need to change your stroke but rather the putter you are using (and headweight for that matter). That's why there are so many quality options out there! Don't discount the idea of a genuine putter fitting.
 
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