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Everything you've wanted to know about golf but were afraid to ask.

Floor-is said:
Someone is trying to convince me of the following:

Say you hit your teeshot for a par3 left of target. Behind a bit of a hill, everyone in the flight has seen it go behind the hill. Once you get there, it's very wet, some puddles and a lot of mushy grass. Ball is never to be found.

So options:
A. Sucks to be you, go back to the tee boxes and try again, with the appropriate penalty.
B. Yeah that's a temporary water hazard, guesstimate where your ball landed, avoid the temporary hazard and go on (possibly with a penalty).
C. Something else, also please elaborate on that.

I'm option A, the other dude is option B.
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People answering "A" and I'd have to agree. But there is a problem with this. It wasn't expected to be the case nor a lost ball so therefore most are not going to hit a second tee shot provisionally and now only realizing the problem after we arrive. Option "A" is the correct thing to do but it means heading back to the tee box which is always (at least most the times) a no no for pace reasons. So what to do? I suppose in a casual round we can drop and take 2 strokes (one for a penalty and one to sort of make up for the distance part of the rule) at least its honest as possible without heading back to the tee.

But there is also another side to this. And are reasons many feel rules for amateur golf could or should be different from pro golf. The exact scenario played out above causes a problem in our amateur golf lives where playing the exact ruling leads to pace inconvenience and embarrassment. I mean who is really going back to the tee here unless you want a fight with the group behind. The other thing is that we don't have that enormous advantage of a hundred sets of eyes on our ball like the pros do. Almost 100% of the time that ball would never be lost even if unplayable so the player never has to worry about what to do and even if he had to re-hit or hit a provisional from the tee he'd probably know right then and there to do so before ever leaving the tee. We just don't have the same great advantage and can often get stuck in similar scenarios. How often have we hit balls to places where we really didn't believe for a second that we wouldn't find our ball or be in a situation where we only find out a re-tee is the only option after we honestly got to the area we landed? Imo for these scenarios they should allow amateur play to have a drop at nearest possible playable spot and penalty of 2 strokes (instead of one) in lieu of heading back to the tee.
 
rollin said:
People answering "A" and I'd have to agree. But there is a problem with this. It wasn't expected to be the case nor a lost ball so therefore most are not going to hit a second tee shot provisionally and now only realizing the problem after we arrive. Option "A" is the correct thing to do but it means heading back to the tee box which is always (at least most the times) a no no for pace reasons. So what to do? I suppose in a casual round we can drop and take 2 strokes (one for a penalty and one to sort of make up for the distance part of the rule) at least its honest as possible without heading back to the tee.

But there is also another side to this. And are reasons many feel rules for amateur golf could or should be different from pro golf. The exact scenario played out above causes a problem in our amateur golf lives where playing the exact ruling leads to pace inconvenience and embarrassment. I mean who is really going back to the tee here unless you want a fight with the group behind. The other thing is that we don't have that enormous advantage of a hundred sets of eyes on our ball like the pros do. Almost 100% of the time that ball would never be lost even if unplayable so the player never has to worry about what to do and even if he had to re-hit or hit a provisional from the tee he'd probably know right then and there to do so before ever leaving the tee. We just don't have the same great advantage and can often get stuck in similar scenarios. How often have we hit balls to places where we really didn't believe for a second that we wouldn't find our ball or be in a situation where we only find out a re-tee is the only option after we honestly got to the area we landed? Imo for these scenarios they should allow amateur play to have a drop at nearest possible playable spot and penalty of 2 strokes (instead of one) in lieu of heading back to the tee.
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Not to be argumentative, but the correct thing to do is play another tee shot, as the penalty is stroke and distance. Whether it is feasable to do so is a completely different discussion.
 
I noticed in Jason Day's WITB that he plays a 52* wedge bent to 54*. Why wouldn't he just use a 54*?
 
MBurnham said:
I noticed in Jason Day's WITB that he plays a 52* wedge bent to 54*. Why wouldn't he just use a 54*?
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My only guess is that he wants a little more bounce on the club. Bending the face angle 2º I believe adds 2º of bounce.
 
GolfFest said:
My only guess is that he wants a little more bounce on the club. Bending the face angle 2º I believe adds 2º of bounce.
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Interesting, I never even considered that.
 
I have a question - lets say 2 balls land in play so close to each other that either the "away" ball will hit into the closer ball, or the "closer ball" will move / disrupt the away ball in the backstroke.

What is the play here? Any penalty strokes?
 
ShanksaloT said:
I have a question - lets say 2 balls land in play so close to each other that either the "away" ball will hit into the closer ball, or the "closer ball" will move / disrupt the away ball in the backstroke.

What is the play here? Any penalty strokes?
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My thoughts on this one is you'd mark the forward ball, and the away player would play then restore the forward ball, but I have no evidence to support that.
 
Spivey said:
Not to be argumentative, but the correct thing to do is play another tee shot, as the penalty is stroke and distance. Whether it is feasable to do so is a completely different discussion.
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I knew this, but I also know its a dilemma most all of us at times do come across. Sure, a different thread perhaps better to discuss that so this one can stay on topic. None the less when one wants to know what to do this problem does become part of the answer because its what happens to us (even if for different reasons) often enough. We can tell the person asking the question what to do and that re-teeing is the only correct thing by rule but its probably not what he or most of us normally do when we find our ball is lost but only after its too late and so it still leaves his question sort of open to have to understand where as we kind of bend the rules to be practical when in such a scenario.
 
ShanksaloT said:
I have a question - lets say 2 balls land in play so close to each other that either the "away" ball will hit into the closer ball, or the "closer ball" will move / disrupt the away ball in the backstroke.

What is the play here? Any penalty strokes?
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Mark the ball that is in the way and replace it to the previous location without penalty.
rollin said:
People answering "A" and I'd have to agree. But there is a problem with this. It wasn't expected to be the case nor a lost ball so therefore most are not going to hit a second tee shot provisionally and now only realizing the problem after we arrive. Option "A" is the correct thing to do but it means heading back to the tee box which is always (at least most the times) a no no for pace reasons. So what to do? I suppose in a casual round we can drop and take 2 strokes (one for a penalty and one to sort of make up for the distance part of the rule) at least its honest as possible without heading back to the tee.

But there is also another side to this. And are reasons many feel rules for amateur golf could or should be different from pro golf. The exact scenario played out above causes a problem in our amateur golf lives where playing the exact ruling leads to pace inconvenience and embarrassment. I mean who is really going back to the tee here unless you want a fight with the group behind. The other thing is that we don't have that enormous advantage of a hundred sets of eyes on our ball like the pros do. Almost 100% of the time that ball would never be lost even if unplayable so the player never has to worry about what to do and even if he had to re-hit or hit a provisional from the tee he'd probably know right then and there to do so before ever leaving the tee. We just don't have the same great advantage and can often get stuck in similar scenarios. How often have we hit balls to places where we really didn't believe for a second that we wouldn't find our ball or be in a situation where we only find out a re-tee is the only option after we honestly got to the area we landed? Imo for these scenarios they should allow amateur play to have a drop at nearest possible playable spot and penalty of 2 strokes (instead of one) in lieu of heading back to the tee.
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Orrrr...if it is a stipulated round, mark the hole as an X and use the course's hole handicaps and enter accordingly.
 
blugold said:
Mark the ball that is in the way and replace it to the previous location without penalty.
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But you can't clean the marked ball, right?

Follow up question: When this happens in sand traps (2 balls close too each other), if the sand in the spot is disturbed by the away strike, can the person rake before replacing ball?
 
mtcowdog said:
But you can't clean the marked ball, right?

Follow up question: When this happens in sand traps (2 balls close too each other), if the sand in the spot is disturbed by the away strike, can the person rake before replacing ball?
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Cannot clean. Can rake
 
blugold said:
Cannot clean. Can rake
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To go further, if your ball is buried and you have to move it so another can play, you have to replicate your lie as nearly as possible after the other ball is played.
 
captaincaution said:
To go further, if your ball is buried and you have to move it so another can play, you have to replicate your lie as nearly as possible after the other ball is played.
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Also, I believe it's not up to you if you need to move your ball. If a competitor asks you to mark, move, and replace you have to.
 
Over the weekend, I had a driver fitting. I always knew I had a relatively low swing speed, but the fitter seemed more concern with what he called the "smash factor". What the heck is that?
 
UVaWahoo said:
Over the weekend, I had a driver fitting. I always knew I had a relatively low swing speed, but the fitter seemed more concern with what he called the "smash factor". What the heck is that?
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Smash Factor is ball speed divided by club head speed.

There is better energy transfer the higher the number. Generally 1.50 is considered perfect, even though it can go higher.
 
UVaWahoo said:
Over the weekend, I had a driver fitting. I always knew I had a relatively low swing speed, but the fitter seemed more concern with what he called the "smash factor". What the heck is that?
Click to expand...

It's a ratio of swing speed to ball speed. Say you swung 100 mph and the ball speed was 150, that would be a 1.5 smash factor. Say you didn't catch it as clean and the ball speed was 130. That would be a 1.3 smash factor. Forgiveness in a club will mean a higher smash factor when you miss the center, which is why a fitter would be concerned with it.
 
JB said:
Smash Factor is ball speed divided by club head speed.

There is better energy transfer the higher the number. Generally 1.50 is considered perfect, even though it can go higher.
Click to expand...

Thank you, man you know a lot about this stuff, I'm kind of envious. I understand club head speed and that it is generated by the player, in this case me. Ball speed, to what extent is that dependent on the club versus the player, if at all. Is this a good question to ask the folks at True Temper?
 
UVaWahoo said:
Thank you, man you know a lot about this stuff, I'm kind of envious. I understand club head speed and that it is generated by the player, in this case me. Ball speed, to what extent is that dependent on the club versus the player, if at all. Is this a good question to ask the folks at True Temper?
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It could be. Ball speed is relative to both. Certainly club head speed CAN produce more ball speed. However good contact can maximize club head speed to get you more ball speed out of your swing.

And thank you. I study this stuff pretty much all day every day, and fortunately have access to some brilliant minds. A lot of this stuff can be found in our THP TV segments and channel on YouTube, there are a lot of expert clips dropping some great knowledge.

And of course further access to great minds on THP Radio Podcast shows that are filled with expert interviews on the Show The Golf Industry Uncut with truly brilliant minds.

And lastly, the home page is a great resource for knowledge and there is even a new section coming specifically for education.
 
JB said:
It could be. Ball speed is relative to both. Certainly club head speed CAN produce more ball speed. However good contact can maximize club head speed to get you more ball speed out of your swing.

And thank you. I study this stuff pretty much all day every day, and fortunately have access to some brilliant minds. A lot of this stuff can be found in our THP TV segments and channel on YouTube, there are a lot of expert clips dropping some great knowledge.

And of course further access to great minds on THP Radio Podcast shows that are filled with expert interviews on the Show The Golf Industry Uncut with truly brilliant minds.

And lastly, the home page is a great resource for knowledge and there is even a new section coming specifically for education.
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Again, I genuinely thank you. The resources provided by THP are just awesome, not other way to say it. Unfortunately, I'm old and somewhat of a techno illiterate, but the resources here makes me understand its time to enter the 21st Century. So I will make my best effort to do so. Therefore, you may find me often in the "Tech support" thread in the near future. Looking forward to the coming Education section, believe me I need it.
 
UVaWahoo said:
Again, I genuinely thank you. The resources provided by THP are just awesome, not other way to say it. Unfortunately, I'm old and somewhat of a techno illiterate, but the resources here makes me understand its time to enter the 21st Century. So I will make my best effort to do so. Therefore, you may find me often in the "Tech support" thread in the near future. Looking forward to the coming Education section, believe me I need it.
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Happy to help and if you need help finding something, ask away.
 
GolfFest said:
It's a ratio of swing speed to ball speed. Say you swung 100 mph and the ball speed was 150, that would be a 1.5 smash factor. Say you didn't catch it as clean and the ball speed was 130. That would be a 1.3 smash factor. Forgiveness in a club will mean a higher smash factor when you miss the center, which is why a fitter would be concerned with it.
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I thank you for your response. Using your example of a 1.5 smash factor versus a 1.3 smash factor, is there some measure or standard that can translate that difference in to yardage.
 
UVaWahoo said:
I thank you for your response. Using your example of a 1.5 smash factor versus a 1.3 smash factor, is there some measure or standard that can translate that difference in to yardage.
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No it depends on many different factors. Would equate to about 14% slower ball speed though.


A super general estimate is 1 mph ball speed goes 1.66 yards or so with the driver. 1 mph club speed 2.5 yards with a flush hit.
 
ntanygd760 said:
No it depends on many different factors. Would equate to about 14% slower ball speed though.


A super general estimate is 1 mph ball speed goes 1.66 yards or so with the driver. 1 mph club speed 2.5 yards with a flush hit.
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This discussion has become very educational for me and interesting to me, so please permit me another question. The fitter suggested that I appear to be more of a hitter than a swinger. I got the impression is was best to be a swinger which is something I will address with my instructor. I use what are called senior shafts, I assume that means they are lighter and more flexible. The fitter stated that for a hitter a stiffer shaft may be more appropriate. I also know that shafts have a flex point, is there a direct connection between shaft stiffness and the flex point. For someone with a slow swing speed is it best for the flex point to be higher on the shaft or lower on the shaft or does it matter and its more about the weight of the shaft. (Which as an aside is something else I don't understand-how so few grams of weight can make such a difference).
 
UVaWahoo said:
This discussion has become very educational for me and interesting to me, so please permit me another question. The fitter suggested that I appear to be more of a hitter than a swinger. I got the impression is was best to be a swinger which is something I will address with my instructor. I use what are called senior shafts, I assume that means they are lighter and more flexible. The fitter stated that for a hitter a stiffer shaft may be more appropriate. I also know that shafts have a flex point, is there a direct connection between shaft stiffness and the flex point. For someone with a slow swing speed is it best for the flex point to be higher on the shaft or lower on the shaft or does it matter and its more about the weight of the shaft. (Which as an aside is something else I don't understand-how so few grams of weight can make such a difference).
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Well to be fair, despite what you hear, a few grams of weight will not make a huge difference. I strongly recommend listening to this.

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/the-golf-industry-uncut-volume-2-talking-shafts-with-project-x/
 
I think this really fits here at THP great people asking great questions and great people answering them I know I have asked many questions on the forum
 
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