Who hits blades/muscle backs better

Tenputt

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Aside from the looks, because everybody loves the aesthetics of a blade, who can honestly say that they actually hit a blade better than a perimeter weighted club? By better, I mean just as far, due to launch conditions, more consistent distance control, etc.
 
I think most all players would find that a relatively small blade style iron head easier to square at impact than a larger club head. And with square-solid contact comes good shots.
The larger game improvement style heads are designed to help mishit shots get better results (than would happen from a blade style iron). The problem is that the large head size actually promotes mishit shots.
All factors considered, from beginner to Tour pro, I think it's about 50/50 whether he/she will hit more good shots, score better etc... by playing blades vs game improvement irons.
 
Double edge sword imo, I can hit them more consistently but not nearly as far. So not practical for me with 120 yd 9 irons etc.

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Depends on my ball striking day TBH,

When the swing is on i can hit 90% of irons well
 
The larger game improvement style heads are designed to help mishit shots get better results (than would happen from a blade style iron). The problem is that the large head size actually promotes mishit shots.

Do you have any data to prove this? It’s only anecdotal from my end but I’ve seen about zero evidence of this, having played irons in just about every category over the last 7 years or so.

I get that some people might feel more comfortable with a smaller blade length and less offset - I honestly am one of those people.

But I have seen zero evidence that clubs “promote mishits”. One of the best golfers I’ve ever played with plays a set of G25 and the wear spot is minuscule on those clubs.
 
Depends on my ball striking day TBH,

When the swing is on i can hit 90% of irons well

This is me. On good days I feel like I can play anything but when things are off a bit it’s nice to get a little help.
 
I've only hit blades in a sim, but the times I have, that's been the most consistent ball striking sessions I've had. I like the concept of aim small, miss small, but I know I'd have trouble transferring that to the course.
 
don’t discount the need for spin, launch and turf interaction. some mid handicaps who need help in these three areas can benefit from slimmer player profile irons imho.


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Double edge sword imo, I can hit them more consistently but not nearly as far. So not practical for me with 120 yd 9 irons etc.

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If this is true (and I'm not saying you're lying, but I've never played with you), then I'd say you'd be better off with blades. Distance is not the highest priority with irons. Consistency is far superior with the irons. I wouldn't care if I hit a 100y PW, 110y 9i, 120y 8i, etc. If I could conjure up those distances consistently, I'd go with it.
 
Do you have any data to prove this? It’s only anecdotal from my end but I’ve seen about zero evidence of this, having played irons in just about every category over the last 7 years or so.

I get that some people might feel more comfortable with a smaller blade length and less offset - I honestly am one of those people.

But I have seen zero evidence that clubs “promote mishits”. One of the best golfers I’ve ever played with plays a set of G25 and the wear spot is minuscule on those clubs.

Especially from sloped, hard pan, sandy, grassy or other less than ideal lies, a smaller club head is easier to square at impact than a larger club head.
Also, I think everyone would agree that if a company introduced an iron which was double the head size of current irons, or a fairway metal that was 450CC head size, these jumbo head sizes would be very challenging to swing, square-at-impact when played from a ground lie, without use of a tee. So, if all agree that a club head can be so large that it passes a point of diminishing returns, then the question remaining is what size is too large ?
Your friend who wears out the sweet spot of his G25's, and all Tour players who use large head irons, have such good effective swings they can play any club well . But the player shooting high scores could benefit from a relatively small head design that may be easier to swing/square at impact.
Last Friday I played with a hacker shooting 100 and we were talking about iron head designs. He had a modern set of SGI irons but he told me that he hit his best shots with the older style small head irons that he formerly played.
I alternate playing rounds with a set of Mizuno MP63's (not a blade but small cavity back and relatively small head), and modern SGI set of Ping G700's. So, two iron designs at opposite ends of the size-forgiveness spectrum. My results that I strike more solid-pure shots with the MP's, and more shots closer to the hole. In contrast, the G700's provide significantly better distance forgiveness (a mishit G700 will end up close to my distance target whereas a mishit MP will fall 10 yards or more short of my distance target. I seem to hit about the same number of greens playing the G700 vs MP63, maybe an average of one more green per round with the G700. So, it's close, a 50-50 toss up really.
 
If this is true (and I'm not saying you're lying, but I've never played with you), then I'd say you'd be better off with blades. Distance is not the highest priority with irons. Consistency is far superior with the irons. I wouldn't care if I hit a 100y PW, 110y 9i, 120y 8i, etc. If I could conjure up those distances consistently, I'd go with it.
Well stud when you start buying my clubs you can make those decisions....

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I have had days with blades that just warm my heart. But as the years pass me buy I get stingers in the hands more than a warm heart.
I know if I practiced like I used to I could be affective with them but I don’t think affective is what I want in my game. I want to know that when I pull my long and mid irons that I and going to get the shots I desire. I do not want any doubt to creep up into my head.
So no I don’t think I can game a full set of blades better than a full set of players irons. Now a combo set like the Cobra forged CB/MBs I can game the hell out of those like it was my job
 
Especially from sloped, hard pan, sandy, grassy or other less than ideal lies, a smaller club head is easier to square at impact than a larger club head.
Also, I think everyone would agree that if a company introduced an iron which was double the head size of current irons, or a fairway metal that was 450CC head size, these jumbo head sizes would be very challenging to swing, square-at-impact when played from a ground lie, without use of a tee. So, if all agree that a club head can be so large that it passes a point of diminishing returns, then the question remaining is what size is too large ?
Your friend who wears out the sweet spot of his G25's, and all Tour players who use large head irons, have such good effective swings they can play any club well . But the player shooting high scores could benefit from a relatively small head design that may be easier to swing/square at impact.
Last Friday I played with a hacker shooting 100 and we were talking about iron head designs. He had a modern set of SGI irons but he told me that he hit his best shots with the older style small head irons that he formerly played.
I alternate playing rounds with a set of Mizuno MP63's (not a blade but small cavity back and relatively small head), and modern SGI set of Ping G700's. So, two iron designs at opposite ends of the size-forgiveness spectrum. My results that I strike more solid-pure shots with the MP's, and more shots closer to the hole. In contrast, the G700's provide significantly better distance forgiveness (a mishit G700 will end up close to my distance target whereas a mishit MP will fall 10 yards or more short of my distance target. I seem to hit about the same number of greens playing the G700 vs MP63, maybe an average of one more green per round with the G700. So, it's close, a 50-50 toss up really.

Yeah, but they don't make irons 2 times the size of current irons, or 450cc fairway metals. So, setting aside that strawman, there are also ways to provide help while having a sole play effectively thinner than it is. In addition, I don't get the argument that adverse ground conditions have any effect on "squaring the club" when you're making contact with the ball first, save for maybe very thick rough where the ball is buried.

Again, I 100% get the preference and that some people see better performance. I just don't see the whole "promote mishits" thing.
 
Especially from sloped, hard pan, sandy, grassy or other less than ideal lies, a smaller club head is easier to square at impact than a larger club head.

Hmmm.
Yet its also FAR more prone to twisting, which is why MOI is even a discussed topic now.

Im curious what data exists that shows that the smaller club is easier to square, because you have said this quite a bit, yet I have had trouble finding anything to support the case. I spoke to Michael Vrska about this and he explained how in each sport, they have had to maxes on design size, because of the benefits.

I understand the idea if irons were twice the size, or fairways that were the size of drivers (although that one's debatable), but no companies are making those that I am aware of.
 
Again, I 100% get the preference and that some people see better performance. I just don't see the whole "promote mishits" thing.


I think the only way a player will know for sure is by playing some rounds of golf with traditional size iron heads and other rounds with large size iron heads.
My guess is that players who do this trial will find they strike more solid-square shots with the smaller head than they do the large head. As for percentage of greens hit, the scores shot etc... I expect that will vary from player to player.
 
I am forced to concentrate a lot more playing the new Blacks. Previous set of GI irons allowed me to be a bit more lackadaisical in my approach. So I’m finding better results with the blades. As for distance, my blades are lofted weaker anyway, so a better strike equals things out in the long run.


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Hmmm.
Yet its also FAR more prone to twisting, which is why MOI is even a discussed topic now.

Im curious what data exists that shows that the smaller club is easier to square, because you have said this quite a bit, yet I have had trouble finding anything to support the case. I spoke to Michael Vrska about this and he explained how in each sport, they have had to maxes on design size, because of the benefits.

I understand the idea if irons were twice the size, or fairways that were the size of drivers (although that one's debatable), but no companies are making those that I am aware of.

As far as I know, data has not been compiled for "ease of swinging and squaring a club at impact". For the most part, equipment companies are interested in selling clubs, and larger heads are an easier sale than smaller heads.
MOI is a major criteria used in CAD design, but as far as I know the computer is not able to factor in the relevance of a human swinging the club and, or, less than ideal lies.
We do know that when companies have offered extra jumbo heads (for example the original Ping Rapture fairways and the old Ray Cook Titanic irons) players found the designs "too large" to hit effectively hit off the ground, without the aid of a tee.
In recent years the equipment companies have been using the marketing strategy of categorizing clubs for forgiveness/handicap purposes, such as CB, GI, SGI. I understand these categories create a story that can be sold to consumers, but I question the substance of it. For example, if consumers were given company XYZ's players irons to use for 5 rounds, and company XYZ's SGI irons for 5 rounds, I would expect the testers to report back that they struck more square-solid shots with the players irons than they did with the SGI irons. For scoring my expectation is that players would average the same score with both sets of irons.
 
As far as I know, data has not been compiled for "ease of swinging and squaring a club at impact". For the most part, equipment companies are interested in selling clubs, and larger heads are an easier sale than smaller heads.
MOI is a major criteria used in CAD design, but as far as I know the computer is not able to factor in the relevance of a human swinging the club and, or, less than ideal lies.
We do know that when companies have offered extra jumbo heads (for example the original Ping Rapture fairways and the old Ray Cook Titanic irons) players found the designs "too large" to hit effectively hit off the ground, without the aid of a tee.
In recent years the equipment companies have been using the marketing strategy of categorizing clubs for forgiveness/handicap purposes, such as CB, GI, SGI. I understand these categories create a story that can be sold to consumers, but I question the substance of it. For example, if consumers were given company XYZ's players irons to use for 5 rounds, and company XYZ's SGI irons for 5 rounds, I would expect the testers to report back that they struck more square-solid shots with the players irons than they did with the SGI irons. For scoring my expectation is that players would average the same score with both sets of irons.

Im curious where you got the info that the Ping Rapture fairway woods were considered too large? While there might be a vocal minority that exists online, if you look at the top selling fairway woods as well as the most successful, they all fall into that camp. See RBZ and XHot as well as Rogue.

While an OEM is around to sell golf clubs, making them that don't work for the masses is not a recipe for success in my opinion. Golfers overall are a fairly smart consumer and have every major technical advantage at their disposal to see what works better for them with proven data points.

Pretty easy way we can figure it out. If you get into a THP Event this year, we can test it out. Should be fun. We have multiple devices to use outside that will show exactly where the clubs are at impact.

At the end of the day, glad you found what works best for you. Personal preference is the best part of this game.
 
I will add one interesting thing I've found--

I picked up an old blade, cut and lead taped it to match my OL set. Super tiny head. I like to pick it up when I'm having a bad practice session, kind of a reset. Hit that a few times and then hit my actual set better. I don't use it a ton, since it's not perfectly like my set, but it's close enough that a few swings with it can be helpful. And I use it as my "desert" club, necessary down in AZ.

I've long been thinking of picking up a modern blade (specifically the Cobra MB 7i) to replace it for practice. That way I can match everything, from shaft to lie to swing weight. I would probably use it a ton more in practice, hopefully bringing quicker improvement with it. And man, I do love the feel of hitting that exact club in a sim.
 
As far as distance goes, a blade/MB will probably not go as far given that the lofts are usually weaker then in GI's and SGI's.
 
I prefer the look of the blade but I can’t say I hit them as good as a perimeter weighted club any day. Played two rounds with all blades this year and loved the short irons and dreaded hitting the long irons.
 
As far as distance goes, a blade/MB will probably not go as far given that the lofts are usually weaker then in GI's and SGI's.

It's one club difference for me, but easy enough to remember, play for.....
Sometimes I play a mixed bag of MP63 and G700. On those days my bag will have either two 7 irons or two 6 irons, works fine.
 
I like my MMC, but kinda wish I had just kept my MP4’s... I can’t say that I hit blades better but I do prefer them.


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I went from a gi set of irons to blades 3 years ago and in the following few months my gir went up almost 10% and my handicap went down over a stroke. I think it was more of a spin thing than anything else though.


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I like my MMC, but kinda wish I had just kept my MP4’s... I can’t say that I hit blades better but I do prefer them.


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MP4 might be the last honest-true-blade Mizuno made/makes.
I spent a year rotating sets of MP 69, MP4, MP5, MP63, and MP15. All 5 sets had the same specs, including shaft and grip. So, during the year I played 10 rounds with each of the sets and can't say I noticed a significant shot making or scoring difference from one model to the next. The "most different looking" were the MP5 (large head) and the MP15 (tungsten weight within the cavity). I ended up keeping only the MP63 set, because that model seemed to have a sole which worked through the turf best for my swing.
 
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