Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Launch Angle and Ball Speed Correlation.

  1. #1
    Sultan of Santa Monica

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The City of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels
    Posts
    4,028
    Member
    20069
    Handicap
    a toddler
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    416
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,590
    Thanked in
    1,186 Posts

    Launch Angle and Ball Speed Correlation.

    I've been reading lots on data, and so much more in a new attempt to improve my game (as it seems to have really fallen off as of late.) I have a question for those of you who actually understand this stuff.

    According to Trackman, increasing launch angle, while the club head speed remains constant, increases ball speed.

    My question is: How?

    Can someone please explain the physics to me? I can't seem to wrap my head around how the the angle at which the ball launches off of the down swing at a constant speed can cause it's speed to increase. Is it all in regards to spin?

    Feel free to show your work. I'm scratching my head here.
    ~Peter

  2. #2
    Remember to smile leftshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,769
    Member
    38922
    Handicap
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    160
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    621
    Thanked in
    466 Posts
    I'll be interested in what others say, as this only makes sense to me as a statistical tendency, not an absolute. Fundamentally, ball speed is related to swing speed and the efficiency of the transfer of energy from the club to the ball. What we usually refer to as hitting it on the sweet spot. If you hit the ball low on the face, then get it up to the sweet spot what you say Trackman is stating would be true. But if you started at the sweet spot, then hit it higher on the face launch angle would increase (because the face is crown shaped), but the ball speed should decrease. I realize there are many other variables at work, but this suggests that the statement they made would at least in some cases not be universally true.

    Let's see what others have to say.
    R15 Driver - Rogue Fairway Metal - 5DX IronWood 3 & 4 Hybrids - AP2 716 with KBS Tour 90 Taper regular 4-9 irons - Vokey Wedges 48, 52, 56 & Pro V1 ball - Scottsdale Pickemup Putter

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to leftshot For This Useful Post:

    BluesManDan (01-20-2019)

  4. #3
    SERENITY NOW aklawitter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    3,534
    Member
    40313
    Handicap
    tequila
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,550
    Thanked in
    1,001 Posts
    positive angle of attack will increase dynamic loft (generally), decrease spin loft, result in a more square strike, increasing ballspeed

    this is a generality though and specific instances may have different results

    the most efficient strike is dead on 0°/90°

    spin is energy going to rotation rather than straight out (this is before fluid dynamics of ballflight takes over)
    Driver: Callaway XR16 Pro 10.5° N-1 | Fairway: ???
    Hybrid: ??? | Long Iron: ???
    Irons: Wilson Staff c300 Forged 5i-PW | Gap Wedge: ???
    Sand Wedge: ??? | Lob Wedge: ???
    Putter: Evnroll ER6 Satin | Glove: Under Armour CoolSwitch


  5. The Following User Says Thank You to aklawitter For This Useful Post:

    BluesManDan (01-20-2019)

  6. #4
    Mini Tour Player BluesManDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    675
    Member
    38850
    Handicap
    1.8
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    269
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    284
    Thanked in
    189 Posts
    Both of those responses sound right. Ball speed would only increase with launch angle only if the increase in launch angle were achieved by a more square impact with positive aoi (more dynamic loft) instead of say using a more lofted club. The more lofted club would be a more glancing blow.

    But, I think you could produce identical ballspeed with lower launch, by keeping the same impact conditions relative to the arc center and irrespective of loft. Clubhead speed and face squareness relative to clubhead path are what matter.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    D: Taylormade M1 with Motore Speeder VC 6.1 X
    3W: Taylormade M1 with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red R
    5W: Taylormade Aeroburner with Aldila NV 75S
    3&4H: Titleist 909H with Steel Fiber i110
    Irons: 2-PW Mizuno MP-18 MMC Hi-Fli and MMC with Project X LZ 6.0
    Wedges: 50* 54* 58* Mizuno T7 with S300
    Putter: Evnroll ER8 370g with lightweight Evnroll grip
    Ball: Snell MTB Black

  7. #5
    In Search of a Dang Swing kevin81002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    The IE, SoCal
    Posts
    7,529
    Member
    39197
    Handicap
    9.5
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    8,532
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,723
    Thanked in
    3,256 Posts
    I dunno. Me personally, I've always gotten higher ball speed from an 8.5* driver than the 10.5 I play with. I just can't get the 8.5 up in the air.

    The only way I would think that increasing launch angle would increase ball speed would be the quality of the strike, not just adding loft. A positive AOA could produce lower spin which would increase ball speed on a center strike.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Z565 10.5, THCE Custom Shaft
    915f 3 and 5w, both with Matrix Red Tie 70Q4 X
    816 H1 21*, Fuji Motore 9.2X
    Z565 5-PW, PX LZ 6.5 Shafts
    RTX3 Tour Raw 50, 56, 60, Tour 130x
    California Fastback, 34", Pistol GT 2.0
    Handcrafted Experience 2016 with
    and THP
    THP Regional Rivalry: SoCal vs Norcal 2017
    2018 with THP,
    and Jamie Sadlowski

  8. #6
    ...golf fanatic... -CRW-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,925
    Member
    19792
    Handicap
    #
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,301
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,008
    Thanked in
    1,861 Posts
    It's not the launch angle, it's spin loft/spin. Spin is directly correlated to ball speed. All things being equal, lower spin results in both higher launch and ball speed while higher spin results in lower launch and lower ball speed. Also, all things being equal, the faster the club head speed the greater the spin.

    https://blog.trackmangolf.com/spin-loft/

    The spin rate of a shot is largely influenced by the spin loft. All else equal, a higher spin loft will result in a higher spin rate. Controlling spin loft is key to controlling spin rate. Also, a higher spin loft will create a lower smash factor all else equal. Because of this fact, some will refer to spin loft as “compression”. A lower spin loft creates greater “compression” (and a lower spin rate).
    https://blog.trackmangolf.com/spin-rate/

    More loft generally increases spin rate. All things being equal, more club speed will also increase spin rate.
    https://blog.trackmangolf.com/launch-angle/

    Launch angle is highly correlated to dynamic loft.
    OGIO Silencer Stand Bag
    Driver: PXG 0811X 9*, PX Evenflow Blk 75/6.5
    Fairway: PXG 0341 3W, PX Evenflow Blk 75/6.5
    Irons: PXG 0311T 3-PW, TT Dynamic Gold TI X100
    Wedges: PXG 0311 50*/54*/58*, TT DG TI X100
    Putter: PXG Bat Attack H, SS Flatso 1.0 Black
    Ball: Vice Pro Soft
    Precision Pro NX7 Pro Range Finder

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to -CRW- For This Useful Post:

    Rusty Casino (01-22-2019)

  10. #7
    Major Champion

    sposey013168's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Springfield, MO
    Posts
    14,041
    Member
    14224
    Handicap
    12
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    19,518
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    14,608
    Thanked in
    6,199 Posts
    Through testing on my monitor I have learned AOA is key for me. When I get my AOA at plus 4 to 6 that when I get my best ball speed and carry numbers.
    I know that’s not the scientific answer but it is what I have seen


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    W/S Cortex with Atmos Blue 6s
    3 Wood: Rogue 15 degree
    Hybrid: Rogue 19 degree (Rotates in and out with 4 Iron)
    W/S C 300 Forged 4 through GW Steelfiber 95 Stiff
    Wedges: New Level M Series 54 and 60 Modus 115
    Putter: Swag undressed
    Ball: W/S Duo Professional Matte Orange

  11. #8
    Follow @THPGolf JB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Where the THP Tour Van Takes Us!
    Posts
    173,944
    Member
    3
    Handicap
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    18,429
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    317,626
    Thanked in
    61,400 Posts
    We have a great video coming up with an expert. One of the reasons that we put in the teaser is loft and the ball climbing up the face.
    In my 2015 #TheGrandaddy THP Event Bag

    Driver:
    Epic Flash w/ Helium Shaft 45"
    Driver 2:
    Launcher HB w/Custom THP HZRDUS Shaft 43.5"
    Fairway Wood:
    F9 5 Wood
    Hybrids:
    Rogue 3
    Irons:
    Just Gave Them Away on THP
    Wedges:
    CBX 50* and RTX-4 56* & 60* PM Grind
    Putter:
    #7S
    Balls:
    2018 Chrome Soft

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JB For This Useful Post:

    Doubleb21 (01-26-2019), M2Giles (01-26-2019), obedt (01-26-2019), Snickerdog (01-26-2019)

  13. #9
    Junior Golfer Kay-Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    107
    Member
    50862
    Handicap
    10
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    17
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    66
    Thanked in
    47 Posts
    This is only partially true, and is dependent on two other factors.....face angle and swing path angle at impact. The closer these two angles are to each other....the greater the ball speed and resulting distance. When these angles get further apart (obtuse) ball speed goes down and spin goes up....and distance goes down. There is, however, a practical limitation. Theoretically you could swing your driver and hit the ball straight up to the sky. No amount of acute angles between your face and path is going to cause that ball to go further. It will only go up.
    Driver: Callaway Rogue
    3Wood: Ping G400
    Hybrids: Ping G30
    Irons: Ping G400
    Wedges: Titleist S4
    Putter: Ping Karsten TR Zing

  14. #10
    Major Champion DataDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Keeennnntuckeeee!!
    Posts
    1,275
    Member
    47057
    Handicap
    20ish
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    523
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    718
    Thanked in
    415 Posts
    Just think about hitting a pool ball. When you want the cue ball to stop after hitting the target ball you hit it with your cue to put backspin on it. A tee shot is more complex, but in pool the cue is going on a strait line on the table so to put backspin you hit it with your cue at a downward angle and to put top spin you put your cue at as upward of an angle as you can. The same thing is going on with your driver and golf ball. Hitting up on it is the equivalent of hitting it strait at your launch angle and thus will impart as little energy into spinning the ball as possible and the majority of the energy into launching the ball forward.
    Rogue 10.5* EvenFlow Black
    Steelhead XR 3 Wood Tensei Blue
    818 H2 17* Tensei White
    718 AP3 3-6 AMT Black
    718 T-MB 7-PW Dynamic Gold
    718 CB PW Dynamic Gold
    Vokey SM7 54.08 M Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex
    Karsten TR B60

  15. #11
    Sultan of Santa Monica

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The City of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels
    Posts
    4,028
    Member
    20069
    Handicap
    a toddler
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    416
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,590
    Thanked in
    1,186 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DataDude View Post
    Just think about hitting a pool ball. When you want the cue ball to stop after hitting the target ball you hit it with your cue to put backspin on it. A tee shot is more complex, but in pool the cue is going on a strait line on the table so to put backspin you hit it with your cue at a downward angle and to put top spin you put your cue at as upward of an angle as you can. The same thing is going on with your driver and golf ball. Hitting up on it is the equivalent of hitting it strait at your launch angle and thus will impart as little energy into spinning the ball as possible and the majority of the energy into launching the ball forward.
    But that doesn't explain anything about speed. You're talking about stopping. My question has nothing to do with distance, but with the speed at which the ball leaves the face.
    ~Peter

  16. #12
    Sultan of Santa Monica

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The City of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels
    Posts
    4,028
    Member
    20069
    Handicap
    a toddler
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    416
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,590
    Thanked in
    1,186 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    We have a great video coming up with an expert. One of the reasons that we put in the teaser is loft and the ball climbing up the face.
    Looking forward to it. Will the physics/technicals be explained? I can understand that the data (and there's a lot of it) backs up the claim, but no one explains how it happens.
    ~Peter

  17. #13
    Major Champion DataDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Keeennnntuckeeee!!
    Posts
    1,275
    Member
    47057
    Handicap
    20ish
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    523
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    718
    Thanked in
    415 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pmm21 View Post
    But that doesn't explain anything about speed. You're talking about stopping. My question has nothing to do with distance, but with the speed at which the ball leaves the face.
    Sure it does. The about the difference in speed of the cue ball moving across the table at different angles of hitting it with the cue at the same speed. The more the club face angle matches the angle the ball is launching the more direct the transfer of energy. The spin is only there because you did not hit the energy of the direction of the club face does not match the direction the club face is launching the ball. Less spin means everything is more in line so the energy is being transferred directly from path of club face to the ball and speed is achieved. Anything other than that is on some spectrum of a glancing blow.
    Rogue 10.5* EvenFlow Black
    Steelhead XR 3 Wood Tensei Blue
    818 H2 17* Tensei White
    718 AP3 3-6 AMT Black
    718 T-MB 7-PW Dynamic Gold
    718 CB PW Dynamic Gold
    Vokey SM7 54.08 M Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex
    Karsten TR B60

  18. #14
    Follow @THPGolf JB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Where the THP Tour Van Takes Us!
    Posts
    173,944
    Member
    3
    Handicap
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    18,429
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    317,626
    Thanked in
    61,400 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pmm21 View Post
    Looking forward to it. Will the physics/technicals be explained? I can understand that the data (and there's a lot of it) backs up the claim, but no one explains how it happens.
    The teaser out right now on the THP YouTube channel explains part already.
    In my 2015 #TheGrandaddy THP Event Bag

    Driver:
    Epic Flash w/ Helium Shaft 45"
    Driver 2:
    Launcher HB w/Custom THP HZRDUS Shaft 43.5"
    Fairway Wood:
    F9 5 Wood
    Hybrids:
    Rogue 3
    Irons:
    Just Gave Them Away on THP
    Wedges:
    CBX 50* and RTX-4 56* & 60* PM Grind
    Putter:
    #7S
    Balls:
    2018 Chrome Soft

  19. #15
    Sultan of Santa Monica

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The City of Our Lady the Queen of the Angels
    Posts
    4,028
    Member
    20069
    Handicap
    a toddler
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    416
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,590
    Thanked in
    1,186 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DataDude View Post
    Sure it does. The about the difference in speed of the cue ball moving across the table at different angles of hitting it with the cue at the same speed. The more the club face angle matches the angle the ball is launching the more direct the transfer of energy. The spin is only there because you did not hit the energy of the direction of the club face does not match the direction the club face is launching the ball. Less spin means everything is more in line so the energy is being transferred directly from path of club face to the ball and speed is achieved. Anything other than that is on some spectrum of a glancing blow.
    I'm sorry. I've read this aloud three times, and I cannot understand your wording. The gist of what I can follow is you're saying the ball speed is directly related to spin (like the question in my OP.) Less spin = more efficient energy transfer. Doesn't the energy transfer happen at the moment of impact, which in a split second, would be before the ball spins?
    ~Peter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •