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Offset - What does it REALLY do?

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McLovin

McLovin

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Albatross 2024 Club
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We hear from a lot of golfers that a club has too much offset, so they are going to hook the ball.

Tom Wishon says offset's primary goal is to increase launch, and it may also introduce some gear effect to mitigate a slice.

In Callaway's 2019 launch video posted recently, Roger Cleveland mentions that the design of the PM 2.0 wedge includes a little more offset to make it easier to hit lower-trajectory shots.

Visually I know what offset is. I'm just as guilty as the next person of seeing a club with offset and having an adverse reaction. But I don't know the physics behind offset, and what it actually does.

So I'm asking. What does offset REALLY do?
 
Good question! I look forward to learning a little bit more. Maybe I'm completely wrong in diagnosing a certain ball flight due to offset. Just remember hitting a couple shots with what felt solid, neutral swings only to see an unexpected amount of right to left ball flight. Could be completely due to something else though
 
Benefits of Offset:

The more offset in the clubhead, the more time the golfer has on the downswing to rotate the face of the clubhead back around in order to arrive at impact closer to being square to the target line. In other words, offset can help a golfer come closer to squaring the face at impact because the clubface arrives at impact a split-second later than with a club that has no offset. So this benefit of offset is to help reduce the amount the golfer may slice or fade the ball.

The more offset, the farther the head's center of gravity is back from the shaft. And the farther the CG is back from the shaft, the higher the trajectory will be for any given loft on the face. In this case, more offset can help increase the height of the shot for golfers who have a difficult time getting the ball well up in the air to fly.
 
golfinnut said:
Benefits of Offset:

The more offset in the clubhead, the more time the golfer has on the downswing to rotate the face of the clubhead back around in order to arrive at impact closer to being square to the target line. In other words, offset can help a golfer come closer to squaring the face at impact because the clubface arrives at impact a split-second later than with a club that has no offset. So this benefit of offset is to help reduce the amount the golfer may slice or fade the ball.

The more offset, the farther the head's center of gravity is back from the shaft. And the farther the CG is back from the shaft, the higher the trajectory will be for any given loft on the face. In this case, more offset can help increase the height of the shot for golfers who have a difficult time getting the ball well up in the air to fly.
Click to expand...

is this your opinion, or a copy-paste/paraphrase from another source? i'm genuinely asking because the little googling i did before making this thread confirmed your last paragraph, but also suggested that your second paragraph is a myth that is not true. hence my confusion.
 
Offset helps me hit it higher - improved initial launch

However, based on my swing

Timing/path/face I see more right to left action - of course clubs with offset that I’ve seen played have also had more upright lie angle which might be the reason for the left bias as well
 
golfinnut said:
It's actually directly from the mind of Wishon

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-offset-in-clubs-1563335
Click to expand...

Nice link. Thanks.

Wonder why most manufacturers have gone to progressive offset and if there are any effects of keeping it a standard amount? Based on the link, looks like it won't have much effect on the scoring clubs in terms of moving the ball right to left (so my post on the 1031 sucks). It may just be about launch then?
 
obedt said:
Nice link. Thanks.

Wonder why most manufacturers have gone to progressive offset and if there are any effects of keeping it a standard amount? Based on the link, looks like it won't have much effect on the scoring clubs in terms of moving the ball right to left (so my post on the 1031 sucks). It may just be about launch then?
Click to expand...

I would assume so. You need the help to get the lower lofted irons in the air more ... hence the offset in the longer irons. You need less help with the higher lofted short irons ... hence the lack of offset in the shorter irons.
 
golfinnut said:
It's actually directly from the mind of Wishon

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-offset-in-clubs-1563335
Click to expand...

i saw that too, but i dismissed it because honestly i don't know what thoughtco.com is and it didn't really look like a definitive place for scientific answers. more like a buzzfeed type site.

i want to know the physics of it. and we have so much more access to high-speed cameras and information that i would think we know WHY things happen, not just what we think is happening.

the launch aspect of it is what i've read before. the hook tendency is what we golfers discuss. then roger cleveland mentioned adding offset to the pm 2.0 to help hit lower shots, and now i don't know what to think haha
 
Well in terms of the physics of it, I will let someone else chime in.

All I know is that they don't look visually appealing to me with offset, so I would never play them. :act-up:
 
golfinnut said:
Well in terms of the physics of it, I will let someone else chime in.

All I know is that they don't look visually appealing to me with offset, so I would never play them. :act-up:
Click to expand...

Same for me. It makes me have to consciously take care to aim the face which breaks my normal train of thought/visualization process that I go through when hitting a shot. Clubs with little or no offset I aim naturally without giving any thought to the process. The same thing happens to me with the lie angle especially on wedges. I really need my wedges 2 degrees flat to not be distracted by where the face is aimed at address.
 
golfinnut said:
Here is another article from Golfweek with comments from PGA professionals & Butch Harmon in regards to the benefits of offset clubs.

https://golftips.golfweek.com/benefits-offset-golf-clubs-20506.html
Click to expand...

lol i saw that one too but wasn't sure how current the information is

golf instructors were the same guys who told us to shape the ball we need to aim our feet where the ball will start, and point the club where the ball will finish. and we know that's the opposite what is actually happening haha
 
McLovin said:
lol i saw that one too but wasn't sure how current the information is

golf instructors were the same guys who told us to shape the ball we need to aim our feet where the ball will start, and point the club where the ball will finish. and we know that's the opposite what is actually happening haha
Click to expand...
That's true

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
From a physics standpoint, I don't get why moving the weight back would make the ball launch higher. Please hear me out, on a driver you can move the weight further back from the face which increases the moment of inertia. That's obviously going to do things to make the head shift less at contact. However, for an iron the offset does not change the distance of the center of gravity to the contact surface. Just looking at the head itself, the MOI around the contact point stays about the same regardless of offset.

What am I missing?
 
Silly answer? Annoy internet golfers haha

Real reason? I have always been under the assumption it helps square the face for impact in order to minimize the right miss (for righties).

Did not know it could help increase launch as mr. Wishon mentioned. But I would guess the offset alone doesn’t do that, it’s the better impact angles of the face to deliver a better stroke versus a glancing blow of not closing the face.

Am I close?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
tahoebum said:
Same for me. It makes me have to consciously take care to aim the face which breaks my normal train of thought/visualization process that I go through when hitting a shot. Clubs with little or no offset I aim naturally without giving any thought to the process. The same thing happens to me with the lie angle especially on wedges. I really need my wedges 2 degrees flat to not be distracted by where the face is aimed at address.
Click to expand...

Are your other clubs "standard" lie?
 
PapaJohick said:
...it’s the better impact angles of the face to deliver a better stroke versus a glancing blow of not closing the face.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well, that and the fact that the offset effectively moves the CoG further back. I guess it all works in concert.

I must be a freak. Everything is backwards for me. I like heavier shafts, when I swing out to in with an open face the ball slices, and I slice an offset driver worse than a non-offset driver of similar spec. Someone shoot me now!
 
obedt said:
Nice link. Thanks.

Wonder why most manufacturers have gone to progressive offset and if there are any effects of keeping it a standard amount? Based on the link, looks like it won't have much effect on the scoring clubs in terms of moving the ball right to left (so my post on the 1031 sucks). It may just be about launch then?
Click to expand...

Progressive offset makes sense due to the way the club changes through the set. Longer clubs/less lofted clubs are harder to square right? Reasons I am not sure of exactly as I’m not an engineer. Would love to hear why though. As we get more loft and the cog changes (I think?) it’s easier to rotate the club through impact.

I am rambling and wondering and not stating this as fact. If anyone in the know who could confirm or correct me could answer so I can learn that would be awesome haha. I thought that was the biggest reasons behind cobras progressive sets where the shorter/scoring irons have minimal offset compared to their longer irons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
tahoebum said:
Same for me. It makes me have to consciously take care to aim the face which breaks my normal train of thought/visualization process that I go through when hitting a shot. Clubs with little or no offset I aim naturally without giving any thought to the process. The same thing happens to me with the lie angle especially on wedges. I really need my wedges 2 degrees flat to not be distracted by where the face is aimed at address.
Click to expand...

From what I remember reading from a famous wedge designer, most people need wedges to be a little flatter. Again, can not remember 100% why haha.

Can’t wait to continue to read this discussion. I feel I’m going to learn a lot :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OGputtnfool said:
Well, that and the fact that the offset effectively moves the CoG further back. I guess it all works in concert.

I must be a freak. Everything is backwards for me. I like heavier shafts, when I swing out to in with an open face the ball slices, and I slice an offset driver worse than a non-offset driver of similar spec. Someone shoot me now!
Click to expand...

The ball should slice if your path is left and the face angle is open to that path. Now if you’re swinging left and the face is equal to closed of that path, you will hit a pull/hook right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
as an anecdote, back when i participated in "love is in the air" with thp and cobra, i was really struggling with my driver. everything was a block slice and i was getting frustrated. mike yagley handed me something and said, "hit this. don't look at it, just hit it." i've never hit a driver better before or after i hit that. it was the fly-z xl. guess whose ego wouldn't let him buy a fly-z xl?
 
McLovin said:
"hit this. don't look at it, just hit it."
Click to expand...

McLovin said:
guess whose ego wouldn't let him buy a fly-z xl?
Click to expand...

Don't feel bad at all. I don't think I could do it either. I mean, I know they make light switches for a reason, but I can't imagine hitting something that I couldn't stand to look at. Golf clubs or otherwise.
 
McLovin said:
We hear from a lot of golfers that a club has too much offset, so they are going to hook the ball.

Tom Wishon says offset's primary goal is to increase launch, and it may also introduce some gear effect to mitigate a slice.

In Callaway's 2019 launch video posted recently, Roger Cleveland mentions that the design of the PM 2.0 wedge includes a little more offset to make it easier to hit lower-trajectory shots.

Visually I know what offset is. I'm just as guilty as the next person of seeing a club with offset and having an adverse reaction. But I don't know the physics behind offset, and what it actually does.

So I'm asking. What does offset REALLY do?
Click to expand...

I am just seeing this thread and haven’t read through it, so somebody else may have already shared the equivalent of my thought on this subject. To me, what offset in an iron does is move the mass of gravity back further away from the ball, much like drivers, where the easier launching versions put the heavier weight in the back of the club. I believe it increases launch and forgiveness.
 
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