Lost ball out of bounds rule

LICC said:

Gene Sarazen, who told Golf Digest, "Golf is a game of luck. The stroke and distance penalty gives luck extra value. A guy gets into trouble at the wrong time or on the wrong hole and it is the equivalent of two strokes added to his card. The population is growing and taking up more space, so out-of-bounds holes are increasing. The double penalty rule is entirely unnecessary."

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Sarazen, like Palmer who followed him, was a nice smiling guy who got lots of mileage out of telling people what they want to hear.

DG_1234 said:

I don't understand your question here. I am not a course architect and have never designed a golf course. I know that here in Nor Cal most of the courses built during the past 50 years were done so to sell real estate home sites. That is, a developer purchased the property, constructed a golf course, built some model homes for potential buyers to view, , and proceeded to spend the next few years selling home lots/constructing homes, along the golf fairways of the golf course. Obviously, golf balls flying into peoples roofs, siding, windows, or back yards is not good for anyone, so the course boundaries are marked by OB stakes. The OB stakes (and potential penalty) should discourage players from choosing lines of play and, or, clubs that might send their ball out of bounds.
Architects choose to use water hazards for several reasons including incorporating the course site's existing lake , river, steam, creek, bay ,ocean etc.... ,or an architect may design/construct a man made pond or lake to create the shape of a hole, provide a visual site line for tee shots, create a hazard which makes the hole more challenging, add value to the image of the course etc...

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I am saying that you won’t find many courses, if any, where the architect designed a hole differently because it was next to private homes than he would have if the hole was next to a pond or lake.

DG_1234 said:

Sarazen, like Palmer who followed him, was a nice smiling guy who got lots of mileage out of telling people what they want to hear.

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You said you never read anyone else think the OB rule was illogical. Now you have- the Past President of the ASGCA.

LICC said:

Past President of the American Society of Golf Course Architects Rick Robbins:

“If I am on the tee and there is a lateral hazard running along the left side and housing along the right side, why should I receive a far greater penalty for hitting my shot out-of-bounds to the right than I would for hitting it into the lateral hazard to the left? In the one case, I must replay another shot from the tee where I will then be hitting my third shot (assuming I declare the shot a provisional ball) but had I pulled the same shot to the left and it crossed the hazard 200 yards toward the green, I would also be playing my third shot but at 200 yards closer to the hole. Is one shot a worse offence than the other?

This is so illogical to the general golfing public that it has become a rule that is probably ignored more often than it is enforced in average weekend golf groups.”

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I don't know Rick Robbins, but (in the shot scenario his quote described) it's obvious that the player is better off missing left (taking hazard relief 200 yards closer to the hole).
That is exactly why a player should be aware of where to leave a missed shot. Tour players instinctively look at where they want a missed shot to be, and they do that from tee thru the green, always planning for an on target shot but being aware of the best position leave (if they miss the target).
In the quotation you refer to a skilled player would stand on that tee box and know his miss should be left (water hazard) , not right (OB). That's a major part of the game, having control of the golf ball and leaving missed shots still within a good playing position.
Mark Calcavecchia used to have Ping make his iron sets several degrees flat. He did so because he knew that his super flat clubs would never send the ball left. If he missed a shot it was going to be right, and he could play golf courses very well, virtually eliminating the "miss left" as an option.

DG_1234 said:

I don't know Rick Robbins, but (in the shot scenario his quote described) it's obvious that the player is better off missing left (taking hazard relief 200 yards closer to the hole).
That is exactly why a player should be aware of where to leave a missed shot. Tour players instinctively look at where they want a missed shot to be, and they do that from tee thru the green, always planning for an on target shot but being aware of the best position leave (if they miss the target).
In the quotation you refer to a skilled player would stand on that tee box and know his miss should be left (water hazard) , not right (OB). That's a major part of the game, having control of the golf ball and leaving missed shots still within a good playing position.
Mark Calcavecchia used to have Ping make his iron sets several degrees flat. He did so because he knew that his super flat clubs would never send the ball left. If he missed a shot it was going to be right, and he could play golf courses very well, virtually eliminating the "miss left" as an option.

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The only reason the player would be forced to strategize this way is because the rules are illogical. As Mr. Robbins said.

DG_1234 said:

It is the obligation of the player to "make the game easier" and, or, understand the game's Rules.
What percentage of players take instruction, practice what they've been taught ? My guess is (at the most) 10%?
What percentage of players ever take the rime to read a Rules of Golf book, or pay attention and learn from Rulings other players receive ? My guess is (at most) 5%.
So if 90% of the players on the course are not making an effort to learn better technique and, or, learn the Rules of the Game, whose fault is that ?

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Sure you can make that arguement but most of what you, @DG_1234, get to enjoy in golf (new equipment, beautiful and different courses, TV coverage, etc) is due to that 90%. If it was only your 10% the market forces wouldn't support the game you love the way you know it now. So while hackers may frustrate you at times, please take a beat to remember they are trying to enjoy the game themselves and they provide the numbers we all need to keep enjoying golf. So, in that light we should consider reasonable updates to the game to help more people enjoy it.

Jmk202 said:

Sure you can make that arguement but most of what you, @DG_1234, get to enjoy in golf (new equipment, beautiful and different courses, TV coverage, etc) is due to that 90%. If it was only your 10% the market forces wouldn't support the game you love the way you know it now. So while hackers may frustrate you at times, please take a beat to remember they are trying to enjoy the game themselves and they provide the numbers we all need to keep enjoying golf. So, in that light we should consider reasonable updates to the game to help more people enjoy it.

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I never said "hackers frustrate me".
I wrote that golf, like any other pursuit one wants be become proficient doing, takes some learning and practicing. That means all facets of the game, including swing technique , club selection, lines of play, understanding the Rules , etiquette etc... All that takes some time and commitment, but golf is the best game of all so it's worth it.
What I do find frustrating is people who don't put in the time and effort to learn, yet feel entitled to complain about factors they don't really understand.
Everybody starts golf as a hacker. The ones who get good listen , learn, practice, and repeat.
If one wants to stay a hacker that's their business and their right, and it's fine. But the game deserves better than to have hackers calling the shots.
In your post you've referred a couple of times to "enjoyment of the game" and, or, "helping more people enjoy it". That's a separate subject for a different thread, but I'll write that I've never seen anybody hacking away, hunting for golf balls all day, shooting high scores etc...having much fun. What I have always seen is big fun and big smiles from people striking good shots. The trendy "let's grow the game" (thru changing the Rules ) initiatives are nonsense. It's common for people to try golf and soon quit because their hacking is more frustrating than fun for them. The only sensible way to "grow the game" is by encouraging players to learn how to properly strike a ball so that they can play golf holes reasonably well . When that happens people are truly enjoying themselves, , having fun, and they want to play more and more golf.