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Wedge Play -- Laying Sod Over Ball

Desmond

Desmond

Let's have fun here.
Albatross 2024 Club
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Laying Sod ... how embarrassing.

Hi, Freddie and other Members who may assist and who have this issue. I believe this is the second thread I have begun, the first was my intro... but the question is about laying sod over the ball in conditions not ideally suited to your wedge grind and swing.

With Wedges, I have more of a neutral swing, an Edel trapper, or a sweeper/picker - I don't try to retain lag with less than 60 yrd pitches and have a very shallow divot.

In my setups, I have played a 50-08, 56-10, and 60-08 in SM7, with my present setup, the Ping 2.0 Stealth, I have a 56-08 (ES), and 60-10 (SS) both have heel and toe and some trailing edge relief. In other words, we are talking mid-bounce.

I like bounce - have played Miura K Grinds with 11 and 12 deg of bounce, and had success. I sometimes like more bounce than my Titleist fitting above suggests.

The wedges seem to do well in normal dry, tight conditions which was once Texas almost all year round - but lots of rain in 2018 year and winter. So it's tight and soft.

I am throwing sod over the ball, especially with the mid-bounce LWs. When I went to a SM7 60-12, no problem. The SW was okay.

I don't really want to buy 2 different sets of wedges for different conditions, but if one must...

I setup with all weight on the front side on short pitches and chips and vary ball position - from front to back -

Possible Solutions:

I do have a tendency of an in to out swing, and when I think "cut!" the path is more neutral on the full swing with better results.

Could a wandering path be the issue? (probably) More "cut" thinking for a neutral path.

Do I just need to gut it up and include at least one high bounce wedge in the bag, gut it up and surrender creativity to conditions and just move the ball back so I don't lay sod? (probably) or treat everything like a bunker shot and use bounce so club doesn't dig - hmmm ... haven't tried that yet but doesn't seem precise or accurate.

Any feedback is appreciated or shared stories about wedges - especially inside of 50 yards. What should be an easy shot turns into biting a steel shaft, which is a useless outlet for frustration.

Thx.
 
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I've been known to lay sod over time to time, specifically very tight lie's in damp conditions. I'm not into 2 sets of wedges so I'll just club up to slow my swing down. Usually use AW from my set for this. Nothing worse than going right under the ball with a wedge.
 
Shorten backswing, panic, scream internally, accelerate through ball. Ta-da!
 
I’m certainly no expert Jerry but catching turf before ball/hitting it fat seems to be the main problem. The larger grind/higher bounce wedges are only masking the issue as they’ll scoot through the turf a bit easier even when you do hit the turf before the ball.

Lots of drills to help with this issue. But I’d start with figuring out if you’re falling back on your downswing. Like you said, you may start off with the weight on your left side but then drift backwards during the swing. A face-on video of a wedge swing would be the easiest way to tell.

Good luck Jerry!


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I often have the same problem here in Arkansas in the winter. Fairways and the rough around the greens stay soaked due to the dormant grass. And I struggle when my ball ends up in those positions. If I'm in the drier rough or fairways I generally have good/better success. I have been pondering a full bounce 58° wedge for the Arkansas conditions. Once I head back to Minnesota in the spring playing on different grasses and drier conditions my wedge play generally improves compared to when I'm down here.
Looking forward to more responses.
 
Golfever said:
I often have the same problem here in Arkansas in the winter. Fairways and the rough around the greens stay soaked due to the dormant grass. And I struggle when my ball ends up in those positions. If I'm in the drier rough or fairways I generally have good/better success. I have been pondering a full bounce 58° wedge for the Arkansas conditions. Once I head back to Minnesota in the spring playing on different grasses and drier conditions my wedge play generally improves compared to when I'm down here.
Looking forward to more responses.
Click to expand...

Sure AF didn't have an issue hitting off a side hill out of thick rough to 8 ft to a pin........yup seen that one
 
Wedge Play -- Laying Sod Over Ball

Zbuechner4 said:
I’m certainly no expert Jerry but catching turf before ball/hitting it fat seems to be the main problem. The larger grind/higher bounce wedges are only masking the issue as they’ll scoot through the turf a bit easier even when you do hit the turf before the ball.

Lots of drills to help with this issue. But I’d start with figuring out if you’re falling back on your downswing. Like you said, you may start off with the weight on your left side but then drift backwards during the swing. A face-on video of a wedge swing would be the easiest way to tell.

Good luck Jerry!


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Click to expand...
I await Freddy’s feedback. Until then I’ll chime in to wonder if not maintaining lag is contributing to the problem. No lag could result in casting, which can lead to hitting it fat


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Zbuechner4 said:
I’m certainly no expert Jerry but catching turf before ball/hitting it fat seems to be the main problem. The larger grind/higher bounce wedges are only masking the issue as they’ll scoot through the turf a bit easier even when you do hit the turf before the ball.

Lots of drills to help with this issue. But I’d start with figuring out if you’re falling back on your downswing. Like you said, you may start off with the weight on your left side but then drift backwards during the swing. A face-on video of a wedge swing would be the easiest way to tell.

Good luck Jerry!


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Click to expand...

Thanks, Zach. You confirmed what I was checking on Sunday.

I lean my upper body to the left and stay there - in fact, was paying attention to staying on the left foot (for a righty) due to the reason you stated. I was even using hinge and hold so as to ensure no scooping. I was also setting up with hands ahead of ball. Felt as if I was hitting under the ball and sure, a touch fat. I tend to play the ball more forward than most on pitches and chips, so two things (okay, 3 ... now 4) to test:

1. Play the ball middle/back of middle.

2. Think "cut" to neutralize my usual in to out path.

3. Move lower body before arms and 4. Stay tall through impact.

But that 60-12 was awfully good at forgiving a slight fatty and not digging.
 
In tight wet conditions I dont try to pop the ball up, I generally use my PW and hit a lower flighted shot. I envision a high drop shot as giving me more control, but if hitting it fat is a big risk then I don't have the control I am envisioning anyway. Also if the ground is wet the ball wont roll nearly as much so the control on a lower flighted shot is pretty high in the circumstances.

I am also a very shallow in to out swinger so I feel your pain.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I await Freddy’s feedback. Until then I’ll chime in to wonder if not maintaining lag is contributing to the problem. No lag could result in casting, which can lead to hitting it fat


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Click to expand...

I understand and that's a good point.

Maybe I'm releasing too soon, or using the arms too soon (which is also a full swing issue).

We are talking 20-50 yard shots (although I was doing the same with full swing gap wedges - ugh - look like a fool and I'm laughng about it on the range), and I attempt to follow Utley on short pitches and chips, who is more of a move the clubhead, don't move the grip too much from your side, so you have the right elbow (for a righty) going up your right side and not out as in a full swing, and then a turn of the lower body with no/little lag. I could be coming in too steep - so I need to check that I stay shallow during the back and downswings.

I try to avoid fats with setup - left side, leaning to the left a bit (no spine angle leaning), and keep the arms close to the body. I forgot on Sunday, to think "cut" to eliminate the in to out path until the last part of the session. Need to try it when weather warms this weekend. But may be a ball position thing, too. To lower the probability of fats - move it back a bit.
 
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@desmond I’d advise that you find your bottom. Meaning, take a few practice swings and pay attention to where the club makes contact. Once you find, them that is where the ball is optioned in your stance. Weight forward, hands forward and keep the grip moving through the shot.
Swing path and face angle will determine the spin and shot played. Using the bounce or trusting the bounce with pay dividends in the end. It sounds like you’re playing the leading edge and have the wrong ball position.
I spent an hour, yesterday, working on exactly what I just recommended. Since moving to GA I have found I’ve had to adjust to wet conditions. The lies at my club are tight, greens fast and turf is wet. Ive really focused on the bounce and keeping my speed through the shot. I’m also playing the high percentage shot. I find in wet conditions the high percentage means more speed and it wet conditions this usually means on the money.
 
Tadashi70 said:
@desmond I’d advise that you find your bottom. Meaning, take a few practice swings and pay attention to where the club makes contact. Once you find, them that is where the ball is optioned in your stance. Weight forward, hands forward and keep the grip moving through the shot.
Swing path and face angle will determine the spin and shot played. Using the bounce or trusting the bounce with pay dividends in the end. It sounds like you’re playing the leading edge and have the wrong ball position.
I spent an hour, yesterday, working on exactly what I just recommended. Since moving to GA I have found I’ve had to adjust to wet conditions. The lies at my club are tight, greens fast and turf is wet. Ive really focused on the bounce and keeping my speed through the shot. I’m also playing the high percentage shot. I find in wet conditions the high percentage means more speed and it wet conditions this usually means on the money.
Click to expand...

Appreciate it. Will do.
 
Tadashi70 said:
@desmond I’d advise that you find your bottom. Meaning, take a few practice swings and pay attention to where the club makes contact. Once you find, them that is where the ball is optioned in your stance. Weight forward, hands forward and keep the grip moving through the shot.
Swing path and face angle will determine the spin and shot played. Using the bounce or trusting the bounce with pay dividends in the end. It sounds like you’re playing the leading edge and have the wrong ball position.
I spent an hour, yesterday, working on exactly what I just recommended. Since moving to GA I have found I’ve had to adjust to wet conditions. The lies at my club are tight, greens fast and turf is wet. Ive really focused on the bounce and keeping my speed through the shot. I’m also playing the high percentage shot. I find in wet conditions the high percentage means more speed and it wet conditions this usually means on the money.
Click to expand...

Tadashi - thanks! Went out on wet turf yesterday. Weight on front foot, brushed the grass during the practice swings for ball position and trusted the bounce - as you said, I was using the leading edge too much and not trusting the bounce. As to speed, I wasn't afraid to let go and use some speed yesterday. Worked well.

To add, I usually have my hands forward depending on what I want to do and ball position, but my instructor with my irons had my shaft more vertical and hands less forward - maybe for my "special issues" or the fact that he wants me to play the ball more forward than some ( a couple of balls in from front heel for mid irons) and I tried it with the wedges, enabling the bounce to engage more but I kept the speed going. Worked. Will keep on doing as you suggested and also try hands forward to use bounce.
 
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Desmond said:
Tadashi - thanks! Went out on wet turf yesterday. Weight on front foot, brushed the grass during the practice swings for ball position and trusted the bounce - as you said, I was using the leading edge too much and not trusting the bounce. As to speed, I wasn't afraid to let go and use some speed yesterday. Worked well.

To add, I usually have my hands forward depending on what I want to do and ball position, but my instructor with my irons had my shaft more vertical and hands less forward - maybe for my "special issues" or the fact that he wants me to play the ball more forward than some ( a couple of balls in from front heel for mid irons) and I tried it with the wedges, enabling the bounce to engage more but I kept the speed going. Worked. Will keep on doing as you suggested and also try hands forward to use bounce.
Click to expand...

Love hearing about improvements. Keep at it!!
 
My pro has taught me that if I am fatting it, the last thing to do is move the ball back in the stance. First solution is more hip rotation and not stalling when square. Quick fix is actually to move the ball forward in my stance, so I have to reach for it.

When I do it right, these have helped me a lot.
 
millsan1 said:
My pro has taught me that if I am fatting it, the last thing to do is move the ball back in the stance. First solution is more hip rotation and not stalling when square. Quick fix is actually to move the ball forward in my stance, so I have to reach for it.

When I do it right, these have helped me a lot.
Click to expand...

Yes, at the short game area on the large practice green from 40 yds and in, I see most guys using too much arm, not enough hip rotation, not enough staying with all weight on the lead foot and too much ball in the back of the stance. At the same time, you've got to engage the bounce, so you've got to let the club go. For speed, just move hips a little faster and keep the club/arms going through.
 
Jerry,

I'd been having issues with not straight fat shots, but a combination of thin and fats. In going through evaluation with my coach, we found that this was due to a transfer of weight during my backswing and transition (visible sway), regardless of whether the swing was full or not. Because of this transfer of weight and sway, the bottom of my swing was continuing to move backwards, resulting in the thin or fat shot.

You've hit the nail on the head when you wrote about keeping your weight on the lead foot, and maintaining it through the entirety of the swing. I've spent the last two weeks working on drills to make sure that my weight does not shift backwards and forwards, and have been seeing some amazing results.

You may be able to find drills which will help you maintain the bottom of your swing online, or could ask an instructor if they would be willing to provide some for you.

-Bishop
 
BishopBreaks80 said:
Jerry,

I'd been having issues with not straight fat shots, but a combination of thin and fats. In going through evaluation with my coach, we found that this was due to a transfer of weight during my backswing and transition (visible sway), regardless of whether the swing was full or not. Because of this transfer of weight and sway, the bottom of my swing was continuing to move backwards, resulting in the thin or fat shot.

You've hit the nail on the head when you wrote about keeping your weight on the lead foot, and maintaining it through the entirety of the swing. I've spent the last two weeks working on drills to make sure that my weight does not shift backwards and forwards, and have been seeing some amazing results.

You may be able to find drills which will help you maintain the bottom of your swing online, or could ask an instructor if they would be willing to provide some for you.

-Bishop
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Part of the issue was trusting or better, using the bounce, as Freddie says above. Hands too forward eliminates bounce and results in a dig. Over the course of two rounds, this is what was occurring - I need to return the club so that at impact, arms keep moving, hands are not so forward so I do not engage the bounce. I need to feel as if I've released the club at impact so the leading edge is not digging but gliding with the bounce.
 
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