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Choosing Shaft Weight

Nippon Shafts
I love the idea of graphite, just don't love how many companies are heavily focused on that mid to mid high profile in both launch and spin. I'd absolutely spend some time with a graphite iron shaft if it was a mid launch low spin profile.

As the discussion relates to weight for fit, I do very much that with both myself and others. Mid 60s has become my wheelhouse, and I'm doing everything I can to get my fairway to 75g and my utility in that 85-95 range.
 
Choosing Shaft Weight

I’ve bought into what Michael’s selling. Just have to try graphite in putters now, but the rest of my bag has had graphite at some point. I’m still fine-tuning what weights work best in what spots though.

Solid video, as usual.


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Great video!!

I’m all in for graphite. Only thing I need to try is in the wedges.
 
TheLetterSee said:
When I did my club tech training, our instructor had 2 clubs. One with lead tape all up and down the shaft of a heavy, 130 gram shaft and one with a 40 gram shaft. The 40 gram shafted club swingweighted at D9 and the heavy shaft swingweighted at B3.

Total weight makes no difference as long as the ratio of weight placed at the grip end and head match up.

To change swingweight by 1 point:

9 grams of shaft weight higher or lower. Higher = heavier SW
4 grams of weight higher or lower in the grip end. Higher = heavier SW
2 grams of weight higher or lower in the head. Lower = heavier SW

So if you have your driver at D3 with a 68 gram shaft. In order to play a 50 gram shaft, you'll need to add 4 grams of weight to the head, take away 8 grams of weight to the grip end or some combination of the two with 8 grams to the head and 8 to the grip end. You add 8 in the head to go over your target by 2 SW points and then another 8 to grip to bring it down 2 SW points to meet your target of D3.

As long as the ratio's line up, you can dial in total weight to your liking. Have it be 8 head and 8 grip, 6 head and 4 grip, 10 head and 12 grip.
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Good post.
Several years ago Cleveland did a good job of creating light shaft weight (and light dead weight) clubs, but with extraordinarily high (D4) swing weights. I think their concept was to allow for the benefits of light weight, but use higher swing weight to counter the possible negative effects of too light a weight. For their clubs Cleveland was using specially designed light weight Lamkin grips, extra long shafts with added material-weight at the butt end, light weight heads. This was a good sense functional design concept by Cleveland, and the clubs performed great, especially if the player's entire bag was of the same weighting concept.
In general I think most avid players have tried lightweight shafts, at least for their driver and, or, iron set. Often times the lighter weight makes consistently smooth tempo and rhythm a challenge, though, which is why I think many who experiment with lighter weight shafts eventually return to heavier weight shafts.
The current "industry standard" seems to be mid 60 gram weight for drivers, mid 70 gram weight for fairway metals, and mid 70 to mid 80 weight for hybrid shafts. For irons it seems less standardized, but iron shafts in the 105 to 120 gram range seem to be good for the majority of players seeking both comfort as well as consistent shot control.
I think the reason graphite shafts for irons have never been extremely popular is due to cost , but also weight. As graphite becomes heavier (for example above 80 grams) many players find the shafts "feel sluggish" (compared to a steel shaft). I think the reason for this is that heavier graphite shafts are made using so many layers of fiber that a rigidity happens. Lighter weight graphite shafts in the 60 and 70 grams feel great-lively-dynamic , but the low weight in a relatively short iron shaft makes consistent swing tempo-rhythm, challenging.
 
Great info.
I’m getting ready for my master fitting on the Quad for the F9 on Monday. This was great to see before.

Thanks guys.
 
Rusty Casino said:
Great info.
I’m getting ready for my master fitting on the Quad for the F9 on Monday. This was great to see before.

Thanks guys.
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Good luck. It was very interesting talking with Michael about Shaft design and working not only on his own but with so many companies.
 
Rusty Casino said:
Great info.
I’m getting ready for my master fitting on the Quad for the F9 on Monday. This was great to see before.

Thanks guys.
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I have to admit I am way too excited to see how this goes haha
 
Canadan said:
I have to admit I am way too excited to see how this goes haha
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Holy crap, I can’t wait. I went twice to demo the thing. Hit some ball speeds I’ve never seen before. Even rolled a few to 270. That’s unheard of for me. On my gc2 I’m averaging mid 230’s. I almost crapped my pants.

My only concern was my dispersion. But I’m hoping the fitter can tighten that up with the right shaft.


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The only thing that makes me wonder is he never mentioned anything about length. Depending on the player's optimal length, that 50ish gram shaft might be relatively difficult to utilize unless you like a really light swingweight. Yeah, the shaft doesn't effect swingweight as much as head or grip weight and I'm sure you can fool the swingweight scale by using a really light grip or just add gobs of weight to the head, but with a shaft with a bit of heft to it, it makes it much easier.

My M1 head is already weighted up significantly heavier than stock (I swapped the 12g and 14g weights for 19g and 22g weights) and even with a 75g shaft, I'm just barely getting a playable swingweight at 44.25".
 
OGputtnfool said:
The only thing that makes me wonder is he never mentioned anything about length. Depending on the player's optimal length, that 50ish gram shaft might be relatively difficult to utilize unless you like a really light swingweight. Yeah, the shaft doesn't effect swingweight as much as head or grip weight and I'm sure you can fool the swingweight scale by using a really light grip or just add gobs of weight to the head, but with a shaft with a bit of heft to it, it makes it much easier.

My M1 head is already weighted up significantly heavier than stock (I swapped the 12g and 14g weights for 19g and 22g weights) and even with a 75g shaft, I'm just barely getting a playable swingweight at 44.25".
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A lot depends on the weight distribution of the shaft also. I have experienced a couple of swing weight difference with mid 60 gram shafts of the exact same length in the same head with the same grip on both shafts.
 
Sox_Fan said:
A lot depends on the weight distribution of the shaft also. I have experienced a couple of swing weight difference with mid 60 gram shafts of the exact same length in the same head with the same grip on both shafts.
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Yes this is correct. In fact we have a great THPTV with Don Brown from Project X explaining this.
 
Seems like I’ve been saying a lot of what Vrska said in this video in a few other threads, all thanks to my education from the ShaftUp events I’ve been able to attend. Haha! He’s a genius when it comes to golf gear and it’s great to hear it coming out of his mouth also.

I’m one of the odd ducks that heavy golf shafts are my friend. The weight helps keep me in control and I make way better contact, it’s definitely not an ego thing on my part. I’ve tried lighter weight to pick up some swing speed, but I do nothing but throw the club head straight into the sod...it’s not pretty.

Listen to Vrska when he says there is a graphite shaft for EVERYONE! Seek out one that’s correct for for you though, there’s many different profile just like their steel counterparts.
 
Sox_Fan said:
A lot depends on the weight distribution of the shaft also. I have experienced a couple of swing weight difference with mid 60 gram shafts of the exact same length in the same head with the same grip on both shafts.
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JB said:
Yes this is correct. In fact we have a great THPTV with Don Brown from Project X explaining this.
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I can imagine that is very possible. What I'm talking about is trying to use a 50g shaft in a 44.5" build. With a 200g driver head and a 50g grip, you're looking at ~C6.9 which is very light. If you bump the shaft weight up to 75g, it brings it up to ~D0.9 which is much better and I only need to add about 6g instead of 12g to get to a decent swingweight. Maybe the weight distribution can make up a couple of points, but it's gonna be tough to go from C6.9 up to ~D4 just moving weight around the shaft.

I wish I had unlimited funds and unlimited time to try some lighter shafts, but that's fairly unrealistic.
 
Once again, that would depend on where the weight is.

 
Big SoIL said:
I’m one of the odd ducks that heavy golf shafts are my friend. The weight helps keep me in control and I make way better contact, it’s definitely not an ego thing on my part.
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You're not alone. I, against all odds, put one out 340 yards just a few weeks ago with my ~44.5", 75g shafted driver. Short and (relatively) heavy yields far superior results for me than long and light.
 
OGputtnfool said:
I can imagine that is very possible. What I'm talking about is trying to use a 50g shaft in a 44.5" build. With a 200g driver head and a 50g grip, you're looking at ~C6.9 which is very light. If you bump the shaft weight up to 75g, it brings it up to ~D0.9 which is much better and I only need to add about 6g instead of 12g to get to a decent swingweight. Maybe the weight distribution can make up a couple of points, but it's gonna be tough to go from C6.9 up to ~D4 just moving weight around the shaft.

I wish I had unlimited funds and unlimited time to try some lighter shafts, but that's fairly unrealistic.
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WINN offers some grips in the 30 gram weight range. Replacing a 50 gram grip with a 30 gram grip will add about 4 swing weight points.
 
DG_1234 said:
WINN offers some grips in the 30 gram weight range. Replacing a 50 gram grip with a 30 gram grip will add about 4 swing weight points.
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I used to use WINN grips, but since I switched to the Tour Velvet Align and now to the Tour Velvet, I'm sold on them. I don't see me ever going back to a soft grip like the WINN again. Now, on that note, GP makes a 25g grip, I think. However, I think reducing the weight of the club might be counterproductive at some point. I'm sure we can manipulate the swingweight scale to say whatever our heart desires, but the primary goal is to get a playable club, then worry about the swingweight. Though it can get tricky sometimes, I'd prefer to add weight to the head, within reason, to achieve the desired swingweight than to manipulate the grip end.
 
So much great info. Really like hearing Vrska talking about this stuff. I've always been told I need a heavier shaft, but I've never had a really good fitting. One of the reasons I would love to get into one of the shaft related events, I know that I could learn a lot and help my game a ton.
 
OGputtnfool said:
I used to use WINN grips, but since I switched to the Tour Velvet Align and now to the Tour Velvet, I'm sold on them. I don't see me ever going back to a soft grip like the WINN again. Now, on that note, GP makes a 25g grip, I think. However, I think reducing the weight of the club might be counterproductive at some point. I'm sure we can manipulate the swingweight scale to say whatever our heart desires, but the primary goal is to get a playable club, then worry about the swingweight. Though it can get tricky sometimes, I'd prefer to add weight to the head, within reason, to achieve the desired swingweight than to manipulate the grip end.
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Using grip weight to achieve swing weight is not ideal, but at least it's an option.
Ideally the equipment brands would offer a range of weights that can be applied to driver, fairway metal, hybrid club heads for swing weight purposes. Most OEM's seem to offer movable weights, at least for drivers, and I believe some make different weight weights (lighter or heavier), but mostly the "weight story" the brands are selling is about moving the weight position around to achieve different shot shapes, ball flights.
Before he closed up his business, Tom Wishon was designing and offering driver-fairway-hybrid heads with a range of available interchangeable weights. His customers were fitting shops and as such often times were selling shorter or longer shafts than standard, so Wishon wanted to give them product to help their fit business.
 
This was a really good video. I am not very savvy when it comes to shafts and can appreciate any info I can get. Having never used graphite in my iron shafts, I have been thinking about the possibility of one day trying it. Just always assumed I should go with a weight that's close to what I currently use and most graphite shafts aren't that heavy. Hadn't thought about possibly going lighter. I know when I have gone too light in steel, I sometimes feel like I lose the sensation of the weight in the head and lose where its at in my swing. Although that might just be me and my flawed swing. This definitely gives me something to ponder on.
 
DG_1234 said:
Using grip weight to achieve swing weight is not ideal, but at least it's an option.
Ideally the equipment brands would offer a range of weights that can be applied to driver, fairway metal, hybrid club heads for swing weight purposes. Most OEM's seem to offer movable weights, at least for drivers, and I believe some make different weight weights (lighter or heavier), but mostly the "weight story" the brands are selling is about moving the weight position around to achieve different shot shapes, ball flights.
Before he closed up his business, Tom Wishon was designing and offering driver-fairway-hybrid heads with a range of available interchangeable weights. His customers were fitting shops and as such often times were selling shorter or longer shafts than standard, so Wishon wanted to give them product to help their fit business.
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Yep. Wishon is brilliant.

It would be awesome if all the companies would incorporate interchangeable weights into their designs. As I posted above, I've swapped out my 12g and 14g weights in my M1 for 19g and 22g weights. I've just about maxed out my headweight.
 
Campbell Toe said:
This was a really good video. I am not very savvy when it comes to shafts and can appreciate any info I can get. Having never used graphite in my iron shafts, I have been thinking about the possibility of one day trying it. Just always assumed I should go with a weight that's close to what I currently use and most graphite shafts aren't that heavy. Hadn't thought about possibly going lighter. I know when I have gone too light in steel, I sometimes feel like I lose the sensation of the weight in the head and lose where its at in my swing. Although that might just be me and my flawed swing. This definitely gives me something to ponder on.
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There are many of us in that boat. Look around. We're right beside you.

I tried the Recoil 125 against the PX LZ 6.0 120g and opted for the LZ. I don't know what it was, but I didn't think the Recoil had as good of a feel as the LZ does.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Yep. Wishon is brilliant.

It would be awesome if all the companies would incorporate interchangeable weights into their designs. As I posted above, I've swapped out my 12g and 14g weights in my M1 for 19g and 22g weights. I've just about maxed out my headweight.
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Over the years Tom Wishon and I disagreed on some topics of discussion, but I respected his business of training and supporting club repair, club fitting shops. And he backed up his fitting convictions by actually designing and producing the product which supported what he believed to be "true fitting".
In contrast, the businesses and people selling fit today seem to hang their hat on an inventory (or access to) of head/shaft/grip options, but without interchangeable weights for the heads of drivers-fairways-hybrids, the actual available specs are limited. Of course hot melt, lead tape , tip weights etc... are an option (to attain particular specs) but as far as I know none of the popular fit shop businesses discussed on the internet forums utilizes these options. Mostly the discussion of fitting seems to be about trying a variety of stock head/shaft combinations and then selecting the one which provides the best computer generated numbers.
 
Choosing Shaft Weight

The above is completely inaccurate. Hot melt, tips and lead tape can all and have all been used in fittings at Least at Club Champion where I have witnessed it.

With so much adjustability in the current clubs and the number of selections it is not always necessary, but it absolutely is available.
 
tahoebum said:
Great information as always. I’m one who hasn’t really given anything lighter that 60 grams in a driver shaft much of a chance. Michael’s expertise makes me want to revisit that this spring. Has anyone here found a 50 gram or lighter shaft that is low spin and mid to low launch? The Aldila Rogue 70 I/O was the best shaft for me at my last Trackman fitting.
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I got close to that weight, but unfortunately I had to create it. The shaft I have from the hand crafted experience I had built to around 55g, and specs wise is essentially an even flow black (low/low).
 
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