What Grows the Game?

I think that if courses would have a "Play 9" and offer a 9 hole rate throughout the day including making it less than their twilight rate it would help a lot. $25 for 18 holes at twilight rate after 5 pm is ridiculous considering you're not going to get in more than 9 holes anyway before it gets dark... unless you're racing around in a cart with an open course in front of you (lol) and the cart costs another $8.

Many courses around here charge $33 or more for regular green fees, and $20 or no rate for 9 holes until 3:00 in the summer and drop to $24 after 3:00 for 18 with no 9 hole rate. But some people don't have time to play 18 but would play 9.

Also drop the "no denim" code. If people want to wear that hot fabric in the summer on the course, fine.

Yes, definitely more economical 9 hole rates.
 
Parents who don't take the fun of the game away from their kids. I know plenty of people who stopped playing because their dad was a d-bag on the course.

Players who are marketable outside of golf.
 
So my question is: What grows the game? What brings in more players and gets those players to stick around?

Faster rounds and cheaper rounds. Making sure you have tees for everyone (as much as the land the course is on will allow for; you can't have 7,000 yard tips if there isn't room for that). Also that the tees are not just an afterthought. Lots of courses will put a forward tee in some place that makes no sense. The courses have to make the people feel like they are welcome. People have told us they will pay more to pay at a course where the staff is friendly and helpful than at a cheaper place where they are just a number.
 
Is the game really in trouble or is it just media bs?

In the U.S. About 4,500 new courses opened from 1990-2005. By my count there has been a net change of approximately -600 golf courses since 2011. Two thirds of the courses closed were low end public courses that charged under $40 per round during peak times. 97% of all course closures in that time were public courses.

IMO a net increase of 3,900 courses in 25+ years (avg of 150+ new courses per year) is nothing short of remarkable.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook...ng-middle-class-is-killing-golf/#3c4fb5ad524f
 
This is a topic I'll be very interested in following. I attended a membership meeting at my club last night to listen to club management explain the condition of the golf industry (clubs) in the Pensacola area and it wasn't very encouraging. Their main objective, of course, was to explain to the members why membership fees went up for 2016 by about 20%. The club is losing money and has been for several years. Memberships in 2009 were at about 500, and today 150, and they fully expect to lose several more with the new rate increases. Chief in the list of reasons is that the number of younger golfers coming into the game is being far outpaced by the number of oldsters that are leaving. Those in the younger generations that are coming into the game do not value club membership as much as before, and are more prone to compare cost of a round, the time invested and so forth, in choosing where they play. Even with the number of courses that have closed, there is very stiff competition in our area and the market will only tolerate a rate of around $40 per round. Many are below that rate. Our club is semi-private, as are most around here, because they cannot survive as private. Obviously, our 150 or so members cannot sustain a full service, private club.

The one thing that struck me during the meeting was that outside of listing all the challenges facing the golf industry, at least in our area, not one thought was put forward on what to do about it. Obviously, reversing the trend and beginning to grow the game again would be one solution, but no real ideas have come forth on how to do that.

Sorry for the rant and ramble, but, as you can see, it's a topic that is weighing on my mind at the moment.

Ken I have a friend I play golf with who is a member at a great private course and is close to your age. Talking with him about his club memberships, I was shocked they were below what they needed members wise.

On thought I shared with him and maybe helps you gain perspective, was I consider myself "young". I have a family who are into different activities and the golf club or country club mentality, while great, isn't the thing to do as a family anymore. There are way more entertainment outlets competing for our disposable income. I mentioned that because most "junior executive" memberships expire at 35 or 40 depending on the club. Why not make it 45? Given that my thought process is that "40 is the new 30". IMO the clubs are antiquated a bit in the membership model and a slight adjustment might generate more members. I know having to pay full price right now at any private course Is the only thing keeping me from joining somewhere.
 
Ken I have a friend I play golf with who is a member at a great private course and is close to your age. Talking with him about his club memberships, I was shocked they were below what they needed members wise.

On thought I shared with him and maybe helps you gain perspective, was I consider myself "young". I have a family who are into different activities and the golf club or country club mentality, while great, isn't the thing to do as a family anymore. There are way more entertainment outlets competing for our disposable income. I mentioned that because most "junior executive" memberships expire at 35 or 40 depending on the club. Why not make it 45? Given that my thought process is that "40 is the new 30". IMO the clubs are antiquated a bit in the membership model and a slight adjustment might generate more members. I know having to pay full price right now at any private course Is the only thing keeping me from joining somewhere.

Thanks, Mike. Yes, we discussed this last night. Kids in school are into many activities, multiple sports, and the like which draw the parents into those activities as spectators, transporters, etc., and rightly so. There isn't much time left over for the club experience for many during those years. We have a lot of young families in our community that are not members, largely for that reason, as well as, perhaps, economics. One of the things I suggested last night to our management group was to offer free clinics to kids, as well as low cost clinics and lessons aimed at wives/mothers. If you want the parents to come to the club, get the kids interested and they will come.
 
Thanks, Mike. Yes, we discussed this last night. Kids in school are into many activities, multiple sports, and the like which draw the parents into those activities as spectators, transporters, etc., and rightly so. There isn't much time left over for the club experience for many during those years. We have a lot of young families in our community that are not members, largely for that reason, as well as, perhaps, economics. One of the things I suggested last night to our management group was to offer free clinics to kids, as well as low cost clinics and lessons aimed at wives/mothers. If you want the parents to come to the club, get the kids interested and they will come.

I agree, you have to find a way to get the family involved. Both my girls have clubs (ages 4&6) & I just need one of them to play or show decent amount of interest to get a membership. Me alone it doesn't make sense, but if I have one or both genuinely interested and willing to go through junior clinics,etc. it makes it justifiable from a personal finances perspective.
 
More good people playing the game. Better revenues mean better courses, and the more people who play who are also considerate and responsible, the faster the game becomes for others.

I'm not exactly a saint on the course, I've had my share of drinking and hijinks, but I make sure I don't make it slower on anyone else.
 
My home course in Idaho lowered their rate at 1:00 PM in the summer, but offered no super twighlight rate later in the afternoon. It baffles me how they were content with having virtually no new gofers after 4:00 PM or so when the sun sets at 10:00 PM. They also didn't offer a 9 hole rate on the 18 hole course. As it appears after 10 years of me asking they finally introduced a super twighlight rate last year.

Another issue I discussed with management was to rotatate the 9 hole, par 36 course in with the 18 hole course giving them essentially 3 18 hole tracks. The manager also rejected that idea.
 
Answering before I am reading the thread.

Apparel and fashion? Not really imo. That said I used to hate when people wear jeans to a course but I stopped caring. I do prefer a course that you have to wear a collared shirt but I am not on board with no cargo shirts ect. Luckily those courses are private normally and I wouldn't be a member of those clubs most likely. No problem dressing the part anytime I go as a guest though. I did grow up playing goat hill fairly often though and there is a place for courses like that. I always wear a collared shirt anyways though but my best friend growing up preferred sandals and a t-shirt.

Easier courses? Not really, I think there are enough easy 72's. Doesn't seem to be nearly as many executive courses though which sadly leads to people playing regulation courses when they probably shouldn't. Big fan of courses that have sets of tees way up though to make it more playable for beginners. It is probably in the best interest of the course to not be crazy hard though. They tend to go out of business if they aren't a big name course.

Shorter tees? Yes, see above

Faster pace of play? Wouldn't hurt, mostly I think it affects individual courses more

Cheaper rates and clubs? greens fees yes. Clubs are already cheap if you know where to look. A new iron set can easily be found for $200 and under.


A superstar getting tons of coverage? I grew up in prime Tiger era. There was nothing like it and it was awesome and just a joy to watch. No one even is close to how good he was and that isn't a debate.


6 or 12 hole courses? Doubtful


Larger cups? I always laugh when people say bigger cups would help beginners. People suck at golf and larger cups don't help when it takes 8 shots to get to a green.
Would love big cups and think they would help good golfers way more


Something totally different? Yes, only need to look at Topgolf to see an example. Same strategy bowling used with rock and bowl when league numbers went way down.
 
pace, is something far more concerning to us that already play it than it ever is to those who don't play and imo is far from the reasons a much higher percentage of people don't play, or never took up golf. Golf always took a significant amount of time to play. Even 4 hours plus travel time is a lot and always was.

The 2 biggest factors imo are
#1, a plane and simple general interest (or lack of one) for playing the game.
And the other is economics.

those two same things that cause a decline are also imo what will help grow the game. A better general interest in playing and a better financial situation for many who would like to.

And on another note I agree with another poster who made reference we are simply on the downside of a major influx that was never the norm anyway. The decline is only magnified or even falsified by the great influx we went through. I would bet my left arm there is still a much greater amount of people playing today vs what there was before the influx. Had that major influx never taken place, we would probably be viewing this as though the game has grown considerably since the 80's. But the great influx plays with the logic of that. Its a misleading stat in a big way. We simply compare to an all time high and its really imo not a fair comparison.
 
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In the U.S. About 4,500 new courses opened from 1990-2005. By my count there has been a net change of approximately -600 golf courses since 2011. Two thirds of the courses closed were low end public courses that charged under $40 per round during peak times. 97% of all course closures in that time were public courses.

IMO a net increase of 3,900 courses in 25+ years (avg of 150+ new courses per year) is nothing short of remarkable.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook...ng-middle-class-is-killing-golf/#3c4fb5ad524f

Look at that compared to the stock market in the last 25 years. I see very little remarkable about the growth of golf compared to the growth of the stock market in the same time frame.
 
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As an entire entity the game is, or at least was, shrinking.
Locally the game is doing just fine and selfishly I have no desire to see it grow.

I don't think we saw the decline in Canada that the states did. I may be completely wrong, but I know most courses on this coast are doing just fine as well. Sure, private club wait list is no longer over two years, but not struggling for members.

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Look at that compared to the stock market in the last 25 years. I see very little remarkable about the growth of golf compared to the growth of the stock market in the same time frame.

Owner occupied homes is a better comparison as many of the courses built in the past 25 years are part of real estate projects.
 
pace, is something far more concerning to us that already play it than it ever is to those who don't play and imo is far from the reasons a much higher percentage of people don't play, or never took up golf. Golf always took a significant amount of time to play. Even 4 hours plus travel time is a lot and always was.

The 2 biggest factors imo are
#1, a plane and simple general interest (or lack of one) for playing the game.
And the other is economics.

those two same things that cause a decline are also imo what will help grow the game. A better general interest in playing and a better financial situation for many who would like to.

And on another note I agree with another poster who made reference we are simply on the downside of a major influx that was never the norm anyway. The decline is only magnified or even falsified by the great influx we went through. I would bet my left arm there is still a much greater amount of people playing today vs what there was before the influx. Had that major influx never taken place, we would probably be viewing this as though the game has grown considerably since the 80's. But the great influx plays with the logic of that. Its a misleading stat in a big way. We simply compare to an all time high and its really imo not a fair comparison.


I still think pushing people to play in 3.5 hours is not the solution. If you cannot handle playing in 4.25 to 4.5 hours then you should be playing 9 holes. Everybody expects to just walk up to the tee and hit with no wait, not happening. 'And your place on the golf course is directly behind the group in front of you' is BS also. You should not be expected to keep up with a group that is out there for just the exercise. Giving themselves 10 footers, and basically not giving a crap what they shoot.
 
It occurs to me the three biggest explosions in golf coincide with Arnold, Jack and Tiger's popularity.


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I guess it depends where you live , golf is booming here, my club has a wait list to join

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Ok, here's my viewpoint, and it's going to sound misanthropic as all get-out.

I enjoy my golf because of the absence of people. I deal with people all day, 5-6 days a week. Golf lets me enjoy not interacting with people, unless I want to. So, I am in the very small minority of people who don't necessarily want to see the game explode. I like the (relative) quiet of the course, the open space, the overall feeling of not being in a crowd.

With more players, comes more crowding, more noise, more on-course boobery, etc. You want to listen to Easy-E (not singling you out Agent Jay)? Put on your headphones. You want to listen to Motorhead (RIP Lemmy)? Put on your headphones. You want to listen to Celine Dion? Put on your headphones. I don't want to hear it.

I understand that courses need to make money, and if they have to raise their prices, I'll pay, simply because it gives me 4-5 hours of peaceful/frustrating golf time.
 
This is an interesting topic. I write this as a 30, soon to be 31 year old. I think $$ is up there and can't be overstated but I want to take a different route. This post is meant to discuss the movement of getting more youth into the game, not adults.

There's no denying that today's youth are very tech oriented(social media et al), and I think attention spans have also greatly reduced. If a kid can hook up to a game console and hit a 300 yard drive right down the pipe, stick a wedge from 90, and sink a birdie, what motivates them to try and do it in real life? They've already identified they can do it. It's a generation of instant feedback and answers available at the click of a link. How does that fit into golf? I think golf is extremely frustrating and uninteresting to a lot of youth. It's a game that takes a ton of time, money, and practice to hit basic shots that allow you to perform average. Golf is a sport that takes time to develop, completely opposite of what inundates kids of today who can access what they want, when they want it, and then find something else when those things don't meet their needs. While most sports are in a similar mold, they are practicing and being motivated by their friends in groups of 5, 10, 30, 60 kids in a team environment. As the husband of a 6th grade teaching wife, they constantly have to modify their curriculum to keep students interested. Golf is completely singular most of the time, and that takes a ton of mental dedication to continue pushing yourself when no one's there to push you along.

That being said, how does it get fixed? If I had that answer I would probably be out implementing the solution rather than typing my thoughts on a message board. Parents who are currently golfers will obviously teach their kids the way of the game, and perhaps a friend or two along the way. I'm not sure how to corral the masses and teach them the same. Perhaps it will never be a mainstream event the way football and basketball have taken hold. It's probably dependent on past generations pass along appropriately. As someone who picked up basketball, baseball, and football with relative ease, golf has been one of the most difficult and rewarding opportunities i've had a chance to become interested in. And it started from my grandfather and father.
 
IndySC, that is a very insightful and well stated post.
 
IndySC, that is a very insightful and well stated post.

Thanks. I would love to hear other ideas. As I get ready to welcome my first child into the world, I can't help but wonder how things will continue to evolve, for the better and for the worse. Tried my best to keep from being the old man yelling at clouds (ala The Simpsons). I think the sport is timeless (save for technology upgrades) and would like to think it can maintain to be a bridge from the past. I don't think the game should evolve to a point where it isn't recognizable from the past.
 
I think it is price, price of everything. The more expensive it is to buy clubs, play rounds, get clothes the less people can afford or have access to it. Get a price point across the board in those areas and the game can grow and more people will become addicted, and THP grows even larger.
 
This is an interesting topic. I write this as a 30, soon to be 31 year old. I think $$ is up there and can't be overstated but I want to take a different route. This post is meant to discuss the movement of getting more youth into the game, not adults.

There's no denying that today's youth are very tech oriented(social media et al), and I think attention spans have also greatly reduced. If a kid can hook up to a game console and hit a 300 yard drive right down the pipe, stick a wedge from 90, and sink a birdie, what motivates them to try and do it in real life? They've already identified they can do it. It's a generation of instant feedback and answers available at the click of a link. How does that fit into golf? I think golf is extremely frustrating and uninteresting to a lot of youth. It's a game that takes a ton of time, money, and practice to hit basic shots that allow you to perform average. Golf is a sport that takes time to develop, completely opposite of what inundates kids of today who can access what they want, when they want it, and then find something else when those things don't meet their needs. While most sports are in a similar mold, they are practicing and being motivated by their friends in groups of 5, 10, 30, 60 kids in a team environment. As the husband of a 6th grade teaching wife, they constantly have to modify their curriculum to keep students interested. Golf is completely singular most of the time, and that takes a ton of mental dedication to continue pushing yourself when no one's there to push you along.

That being said, how does it get fixed? If I had that answer I would probably be out implementing the solution rather than typing my thoughts on a message board. Parents who are currently golfers will obviously teach their kids the way of the game, and perhaps a friend or two along the way. I'm not sure how to corral the masses and teach them the same. Perhaps it will never be a mainstream event the way football and basketball have taken hold. It's probably dependent on past generations pass along appropriately. As someone who picked up basketball, baseball, and football with relative ease, golf has been one of the most difficult and rewarding opportunities i've had a chance to become interested in. And it started from my grandfather and father.

I'd have to disagree with the video game theory. Firstly someone not interested in golf would not even consider playing a golf video games. Secondly, I don't believe any of the other sports video games detracts from someone actually playing the sport.
 
Owner occupied homes is a better comparison as many of the courses built in the past 25 years are part of real estate projects.
Totally agree with that. Pretty sure owner occupied homes have out paced golf by a good amount as well. Was looking pretty ugly in 2009 though. I think our family house in Carlsbad was about 220k when we bought in 94 or 95. Was 770K or so last year. Will be 1.05M once the remodel is done but that isn't a good comparison since we are adding sq feet and improving ocean view. If you bought a house in 2007 you might still be in the red on it.
 
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