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luvagoodshot

luvagoodshot

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After watching the Waste Management golf match this past Sunday, it once again became obvious to me that golf has some stupid rules. Before you jump all over me let me also say that I believe all games and sports should have rules by which the game is played. But here's Rickie Fowler's ball lying on a slope after a legal drop, and Rickie walks away to check things out. Rickie is probably 20-30 feet away from his ball and it rolls in the water hazard, and Rickie gets charged a stroke for that. I'm sorry, if I'm the only one in here that believes that is just plain stupid.
 
Have to side with you on this one. Yes it is ridiculous but that is how it is written. I think he recovered pretty after it
 
luvagoodshot said:
After watching the Waste Management golf match this past Sunday, it once again became obvious to me that golf has some stupid rules. Before you jump all over me let me also say that I believe all games and sports should have rules by which the game is played. But here's Rickie Fowler's ball lying on a slope after a legal drop, and Rickie walks away to check things out. Rickie is probably 20-30 feet away from his ball and it rolls in the water hazard, and Rickie gets charged a stroke for that. I'm sorry, if I'm the only one in here that believes that is just plain stupid.
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Dumb. Even dumber is, if this happened on the putting green, it would not be a penalty and the ball could go back to original position.

Just like the stupid Caddie lining you up rule. You can reset on the green without penalty, but can't reset in the general area without penalty. Dumb.
 
luvagoodshot said:
After watching the Waste Management golf match this past Sunday, it once again became obvious to me that golf has some stupid rules. Before you jump all over me let me also say that I believe all games and sports should have rules by which the game is played. But here's Rickie Fowler's ball lying on a slope after a legal drop, and Rickie walks away to check things out. Rickie is probably 20-30 feet away from his ball and it rolls in the water hazard, and Rickie gets charged a stroke for that. I'm sorry, if I'm the only one in here that believes that is just plain stupid.
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Did he get penalized because it rolled in the water or did he get it from the water and replace it? I admit, I didn't see it, but I thought I read elsewhere that he replaced it.
 
It's a dumb rule, but I'm less offended by this one than others. Rickie could have, and should have, replayed from his original spot with S&D. Seemed silly right away to drop it on that steep hill down which his ball had just rolled into the water, especially when leaving himself that short sided.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Did he get penalized because it rolled in the water or did he get it from the water and replace it? I admit, I didn't see it, but I thought I read elsewhere that he replaced it.
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He originally dropped there after knocking it in the water on his 3rd stroke. After unsuccessfully dropping twice (caddie kept the ball from going back in the water) he placed the ball at the site where it touched on the drop. The ball was then "in play". Rickie walked away to survey the green and while he was away the ball simply rolled back into the water (after resting on the slope for a period of time). Since the ball was in play rule 9 says it must be played "as it lies" and that any ball that is moved by natural forces (wind, water, etc) must now be played from its new spot. Since he couldn't play it from the water he had to drop again (with another 1 stroke penalty).
 
MagicSpell said:
He originally dropped there after knocking it in the water on his 3rd stroke. After unsuccessfully dropping twice (caddie kept the ball from going back in the water) he placed the ball at the site where it touched on the drop. The ball was then "in play". Rickie walked away to survey the green and while he was away the ball simply rolled back into the water (after resting on the slope for a period of time). Since the ball was in play rule 9 says it must be played "as it lies" and that any ball that is moved by natural forces (wind, water, etc) must now be played from its new spot. Since he couldn't play it from the water he had to drop again (with another 1 stroke penalty).
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Got it. Sounds simple to me. If it's too deep in the water to play, you pretty much have to drop it.

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luvagoodshot said:
After watching the Waste Management golf match this past Sunday, it once again became obvious to me that golf has some stupid rules. Before you jump all over me let me also say that I believe all games and sports should have rules by which the game is played. But here's Rickie Fowler's ball lying on a slope after a legal drop, and Rickie walks away to check things out. Rickie is probably 20-30 feet away from his ball and it rolls in the water hazard, and Rickie gets charged a stroke for that. I'm sorry, if I'm the only one in here that believes that is just plain stupid.
Click to expand...

Ricky and, or his caddie made the mistake of choosing to take relief in a precarious location. Specifically, after dropping twice and then being allowed to place the ball, Rickie and, or, his caddie should have noticed the severity of the slope, the closely mowed grass, the water making the slope extra slippery etc....
There is nothing wrong with the Rules. And after chipping the ball in the water Rickie was flustered, possibly not thinking as clearly as he usually does. So, "the story at the 11th hole", I think, is the caddie not seizing the opportunity to significantly help his player.
 
DG_1234 said:
Ricky and, or his caddie made the mistake of choosing to take relief in a precarious location. Specifically, after dropping twice and then being allowed to place the ball, Rickie and, or, his caddie should have noticed the severity of the slope, the closely mowed grass, the water making the slope extra slippery etc....
There is nothing wrong with the Rules. And after chipping the ball in the water Rickie was flustered, possibly not thinking as clearly as he usually does. So, "the story at the 11th hole", I think, is the caddie not seizing the opportunity to significantly help his player.
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Your post brings up a question in my mind. Once Rickie attempted the drop and saw how the ball was running down the slope could he have then elected to go back to where he played the prior stroke from? Once he places it and it is in play I know he's committed. Before that can he change his mind and return to the previous location (which would only be an approximate location since it wasn't marked)?
 
MagicSpell said:
Your post brings up a question in my mind. Once Rickie attempted the drop and saw how the ball was running down the slope could he have then elected to go back to where he played the prior stroke from? Once he places it and it is in play I know he's committed. Before that can he change his mind and return to the previous location (which would only be an approximate location since it wasn't marked)?
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This is a good question.

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MagicSpell said:
Your post brings up a question in my mind. Once Rickie attempted the drop and saw how the ball was running down the slope could he have then elected to go back to where he played the prior stroke from? Once he places it and it is in play I know he's committed. Before that can he change his mind and return to the previous location (which would only be an approximate location since it wasn't marked)?
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EDITED to provide correct answer:

Actually, using Rule 14.5B3......... once Rickie had made his first drop he was obligated to continue throughout the process, which he did including a second drop and then placement of the ball.
So, technically, a ball is "in play" once the first drop is made (regardless of the outcome of that drop).
Thanks for asking the question as I learned from it:bashful:
 
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DG_1234 said:
Ricky and, or his caddie made the mistake of choosing to take relief in a precarious location. Specifically, after dropping twice and then being allowed to place the ball, Rickie and, or, his caddie should have noticed the severity of the slope, the closely mowed grass, the water making the slope extra slippery etc....
There is nothing wrong with the Rules. And after chipping the ball in the water Rickie was flustered, possibly not thinking as clearly as he usually does. So, "the story at the 11th hole", I think, is the caddie not seizing the opportunity to significantly help his player.
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I would argue that the rules are currently inconsistent.

Ball moves on the green, not caused by you, you replace it with no penalty.

Ball moves from in play to out of play, not caused by you and it's a penalty to take relief.

In both scenarios, the player wasn't the cause of the ball moving, yet the rulings are different.

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Golf Ghost said:
I would argue that the rules are currently inconsistent.

Ball moves on the green, not caused by you, you replace it with no penalty.

Ball moves from in play to out of play, not caused by you and it's a penalty to take relief.

In both scenarios, the player wasn't the cause of the ball moving, yet the rulings are different.

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On the putting green the player is permitted to replace the ball to its original position (without penalty) during two common conditions.
1) the player has marked his ball, set it down again, followed by the ball moving without the player addressing it (this occurrence is usually caused by wind)
2) player A's ball rests on the putting green and is struck-dislodged by player B's ball.

Fowler's situation is different because (on hole 11 at Phoenix) he chose to take relief /place his ball in play, in a precarious location. He had the option of taking relief in front of the green (from where his original ball lay), but he chose the more risky option of placing it on a severe down slope lie, and that decision cost him a one shot penalty.
Again, there is nothing wrong with the Rules. It's up to the player and, or, their caddie to learn the Rules and make good sense decisions.
In 2010 at Whistling Straits Dustin Johnson and his caddie chose not to read, learn the (local) Rules for the event. Their decision ended up costing DJ a Major (PGA Championship) victory.
 
Yeah got the rule.

I'll agree to disagree on this one.

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Agreed, the rule could be modified in the interest of common sense as was done with some of the other rules (like inadvertent moving of the ball on a green).

I do understand the spirit of the "in play" aspect to it but it would be simple enough to make an exception for balls placed in play as a result of a drop/penalty (in fact Hank H was talking about this on his radio show yesterday morning). For sure had Ricky hit the ball to that spot and then it just rolled in to the water 5 minutes later, it should be deemed a ball in play and he be penalized. But we are talking about a ball placed in play after taking a drop and while we can split hairs all day about what the rules technically say, I feel there is a fundamental difference.
 
jints07 said:
. But we are talking about a ball placed in play after taking a drop and while we can split hairs all day about what the rules technically say, I feel there is a fundamental difference.
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The difference is that Rickie had an alternative option. He was not required to drop/place the ball on that slippery slope; he chose to do so.
Choosing the most sensible relief option is as much a part of golf as is choosing whether to swing 8-iron or 7-iron for a par 3 tee shot, to aim for the flag or not etc....
 
DG_1234 said:
The difference is that Rickie had an alternative option. He was not required to drop/place the ball on that slippery slope; he chose to do so.
Choosing the most sensible relief option is as much a part of golf as is choosing whether to swing 8-iron or 7-iron for a par 3 tee shot, to aim for the flag or not etc....
Click to expand...

Without a doubt in the end Rickie knew/knows the rules and associated risks and could have proceeded in a different manner, no question I fully agree with you. I am just saying that in the case of a ball "put in play" via drop, would it really have any impact to the game to provide the same protection as is afforded to a ball that moves on a green? I totally get why the rule is that if the ball landed there after being struck and then rolled in the water 5 minutes later it is completely on the player. A ball placed in play via a penalty drop just feels different especially since you are given a 2 club length circle with which to drop in and just picking a bad spot in that area seems more unlucky than any measure of skill.

Anyhow I do see the point from the current rules perspective as well in that under current rules a ball in play is a ball in play.
 
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