Study finds modern swing cause back injuries

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If you read the article, they argue the forces are causative using a biomechanical model of the spine - I wouldn't say "correlated" here since you can pretty much get to first principles and forces. And hasn't there been a move away from the whole "X-factor"/restricted hip turn swing nowadays partly for this reason?
 
Who teaches the X-Factor swing?
 
***Long winded post alert***

I have been dealing with this first hand over the last couple of years. After 2 years of constant back pain, I had an MRI done this past Fall. It was found that I have a degenerative disc (L5-S1) and arthritis in the facet joints around it. During my normal day to day activities it wasn't all that bothersome. It was only really debilitating during through impact and the follow through in my golf swing. Last Summer it got to the point that I could barely finish a round of golf. Playing 2 days in a row was not an option. In the past, my hips and shoulders felt very much disconnected. My swing would start from the ground up with a hard bump and turn of the hips. It felt like this would happen as my shoulders were still turning back. In my follow through, I was able to hang back with my upper body and my hips would be posted up over my left foot. There is no doubt in my mind that my swing caused my problems.

I had Radiofrequency ablation on the facet joints on my left side and a cortisone injection for the dis, as it finally got to the point where it was painful to get up in the morning. I have since gained back a lot of mobility. I have been seeing a chiro lately who checked out my MRI and in my consultation found that the joint was just not moving anymore. This lack of movement caused the disc to lose it's ability to get fluids. Since the only way for a disc to receive fluids is from the movement of the joint, it started to degenerate.

So, the plan of attack for the immediate future is two-fold. First, I need to regain mobility in that joint. I am working on a combination of McKenzie type extensions to force the joint to work through it's motions, combined with bi-weekly adjustments, I have actually begun to see some improvement. Second, he told me to quick babying it. I have avoided heavy load bearing exercises in fear that I was going to rupture the disc. I just have to play it safe and smart. I have to strengthen my core again. So, I am starting to do deadlifts and squats again. Not setting any personal records. Just getting the reps in with a moderate weight. Make sure the form is good and I am getting the full range of motion.

In regards to my swing. I am working on some things that limit the stress put on that joint. I am restricting my back swing to alleviate some of the stress and tendency to get my hips turned way ahead of my shoulders. I actually feel like I have a little more control over my swing and find that I am swinging just as hard as I was before. If I get a little wild and start to overswing, I can immediately feel it in my back. Thankfully, it is only a temporary pain and can go away shortly if I head the warning signs.

Sorry for the long back story. I just thought it valuable to the discussion to share my first hand experience and validate what they found. You don't have to be a tour player hitting balls every day all year long to suffer this fate. Our season is only about 6 months long if we're lucky. I play 1 or 2 times a week with sporadic range sessions thrown in during the season. I swing hard as I have always been very agile and had a natural tendency to hit the ball a long ways.

I was ready to give up and accept my fate of losing my game at the age of 37. Thankfully, I had the MRI done and actively searched for a solution. Back problems can be very complex and everybody's situations are different. What works for me, may not work for everyone else. Key is finding a solid professional who can help guide you and make a plan. Whether it's a dr., chiro, swing instructor.

So, my advice to any and everybody who will listen is: Strengthen your core by any means necessary. Whether it's compound lifts, yoga, golf specific workouts, etc. Listen to your body. If you notice something that doesn't feel right, figure it out what it is and address it right away. If you are looking to increase your speed, you absolutely have to increase your mobility/stability of your back/core. Your body has to be able to handle the additional stress you are trying to put on it. You may find that your speed increases because of that alone.

***End of long winded post*** :)
 
The problem is McLean says that the hip turn should be anywhere from 40-65 degrees. At what point is it restricted; 40, 45, 50?

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jim-mcleans-new-x-factor

The article was a joke. Why? Because Kip Puterbaugh wrote that Jack Nicklaus had a 60-degree hip turn. Anyone who has read The X Factor book or watched my DVDs knows that the 60-degree hip turn he recommended is actually the "model number" used for hip turn (page 45 in the book--hips between 40 and 65 degrees). Also inside the book there are illustrations that show the model numbers being 100 degrees of shoulder turn combined with 60 degrees of hip turn--a 40-degree gap. Since 1992 we have learned that some tour pros have a gap of even less than 40 degrees.

I suspect hip turn alone has less to do with back problem than the disparity between hip and torso turn. If so, what's the ideal relationship? Roughly 45 hip/90 torso doesn't seem to cause me pain, but if it works for me and my body is it right or just right for me?
 
The problem is McLean says that the hip turn should be anywhere from 40-65 degrees. At what point is it restricted; 40, 45, 50?

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/jim-mcleans-new-x-factor



I suspect hip turn alone has less to do with back problem than the disparity between hip and torso turn. If so, what's the ideal relationship? Roughly 45 hip/90 torso doesn't seem to cause me pain, but if it works for me and my body is it right or just right for me?

Everyone's body has a different composition in regards to the little muscles and joints. Their limitations are different, their strengths are different, their weaknesses are different. You can't throw a generic number out and say this is ideal for all. For you, that may be fine. Or, it could be causing damage that you aren't aware of yet. You won't know it's happening until the damage has been done. I think the issue is they ingrain the idea of consciously restricting your hip turn in a number of different ways. Whether you have an instructor telling you to do it, or self teach yourself a swing from what you see on TV (this is my case). At some point, it becomes muscle memory and just part of your motion. Since it seems to be an issue with instruction, you almost need an instructor who can diagnose it as a problem and instruct you in how to adjust it. I am no such person, I just have a new found respect for the lower back.
 
In my driver fitting the other week the instructor/fitter doing the fitting noticed I wasn't turning my hips much and asked if I had a history of lower back issues. Turns out I had compensated for the lower back pain by shifting my upper body away from the target, in order to get the shoulders turned without letting my hips turn. It sounds like among folks around my age (that grew up watching a lot of Tiger's prime) it's a pretty common issue. This was causing all sorts of issues with my quality of contact and ball flight, but I had apparently just gotten used to it.

After seeing it on video, and working on letting my hips turn way more in the backswing I've completely changed my swing path and picked up a fair amount of distance. I don't notice back issues after hitting balls for an hour anymore either.

I'm looking forward to this season, and continuing to improve my swing, more than any other season in recent memory. I'm likely to even continue taking lessons after seeing that kind of a difference in a one hour fitting.

I'm not even remotely qualified to comment on the validity of the article, but I can say that restricting my hip turn caused some back issues for me. And, after a couple of weeks of encouraging my hips to rotate more I'm not seeing anything even resembling the same pain.
 
Everyone's body has a different composition in regards to the little muscles and joints. Their limitations are different, their strengths are different, their weaknesses are different. You can't throw a generic number out and say this is ideal for all. For you, that may be fine. Or, it could be causing damage that you aren't aware of yet. You won't know it's happening until the damage has been done. I think the issue is they ingrain the idea of consciously restricting your hip turn in a number of different ways. Whether you have an instructor telling you to do it, or self teach yourself a swing from what you see on TV (this is my case). At some point, it becomes muscle memory and just part of your motion. Since it seems to be an issue with instruction, you almost need an instructor who can diagnose it as a problem and instruct you in how to adjust it. I am no such person, I just have a new found respect for the lower back.
I agree with this and your previous post. I think leg strength, core strength, and lots of flexibility training are a necessity to increase swing speed. Sorry you are going through this, I appreciate your thoughts on this topic to help the rest of us avoid these problems.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I agree with this and your previous post. I think leg strength, core strength, and lots of flexibility training are a necessity to increase swing speed. Sorry you are going through this, I appreciate your thoughts on this topic to help the rest of us avoid these problems.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Thanks man. It was a real downer when I found out about it a few months back. But, after all of my consultations, I think it can be licked.
 
***Long winded post alert***

I have been dealing with this first hand over the last couple of years. After 2 years of constant back pain, I had an MRI done this past Fall. It was found that I have a degenerative disc (L5-S1) and arthritis in the facet joints around it. During my normal day to day activities it wasn't all that bothersome. It was only really debilitating during through impact and the follow through in my golf swing. Last Summer it got to the point that I could barely finish a round of golf. Playing 2 days in a row was not an option. In the past, my hips and shoulders felt very much disconnected. My swing would start from the ground up with a hard bump and turn of the hips. It felt like this would happen as my shoulders were still turning back. In my follow through, I was able to hang back with my upper body and my hips would be posted up over my left foot. There is no doubt in my mind that my swing caused my problems.

I had Radiofrequency ablation on the facet joints on my left side and a cortisone injection for the dis, as it finally got to the point where it was painful to get up in the morning. I have since gained back a lot of mobility. I have been seeing a chiro lately who checked out my MRI and in my consultation found that the joint was just not moving anymore. This lack of movement caused the disc to lose it's ability to get fluids. Since the only way for a disc to receive fluids is from the movement of the joint, it started to degenerate.

So, the plan of attack for the immediate future is two-fold. First, I need to regain mobility in that joint. I am working on a combination of McKenzie type extensions to force the joint to work through it's motions, combined with bi-weekly adjustments, I have actually begun to see some improvement. Second, he told me to quick babying it. I have avoided heavy load bearing exercises in fear that I was going to rupture the disc. I just have to play it safe and smart. I have to strengthen my core again. So, I am starting to do deadlifts and squats again. Not setting any personal records. Just getting the reps in with a moderate weight. Make sure the form is good and I am getting the full range of motion.

In regards to my swing. I am working on some things that limit the stress put on that joint. I am restricting my back swing to alleviate some of the stress and tendency to get my hips turned way ahead of my shoulders. I actually feel like I have a little more control over my swing and find that I am swinging just as hard as I was before. If I get a little wild and start to overswing, I can immediately feel it in my back. Thankfully, it is only a temporary pain and can go away shortly if I head the warning signs.

Sorry for the long back story. I just thought it valuable to the discussion to share my first hand experience and validate what they found. You don't have to be a tour player hitting balls every day all year long to suffer this fate. Our season is only about 6 months long if we're lucky. I play 1 or 2 times a week with sporadic range sessions thrown in during the season. I swing hard as I have always been very agile and had a natural tendency to hit the ball a long ways.

I was ready to give up and accept my fate of losing my game at the age of 37. Thankfully, I had the MRI done and actively searched for a solution. Back problems can be very complex and everybody's situations are different. What works for me, may not work for everyone else. Key is finding a solid professional who can help guide you and make a plan. Whether it's a dr., chiro, swing instructor.

So, my advice to any and everybody who will listen is: Strengthen your core by any means necessary. Whether it's compound lifts, yoga, golf specific workouts, etc. Listen to your body. If you notice something that doesn't feel right, figure it out what it is and address it right away. If you are looking to increase your speed, you absolutely have to increase your mobility/stability of your back/core. Your body has to be able to handle the additional stress you are trying to put on it. You may find that your speed increases because of that alone.

***End of long winded post*** :)

Dude, this fits me to a T; same disc, same issues. That is exactly how my 2018 season went, starting at the mid-way point. I felt, in part, because I developed more of a coil through instruction than I had used in previous years. I don't think my core was strong enough to put that amount of torque on that joint. My PT and chiro have saved me, and my focus every day is core, core, core.
 
Dude, this fits me to a T; same disc, same issues. That is exactly how my 2018 season went, starting at the mid-way point. I felt, in part, because I developed more of a coil through instruction than I had used in previous years. I don't think my core was strong enough to put that amount of torque on that joint. My PT and chiro have saved me, and my focus every day is core, core, core.

Good luck! I am interested to see how you progress through the season.
 
No sh--. Wonder how much they had to spend on that to figure it out?
 
Thanks for sharing this. I've lost some flexibility and core strength the last few years, and have been making an effort to make improvements this winter in hopes of CHS gains this summer. My daughter was interested in doing karate so as a first time martial artist I joined the local karate dojo with her. It is good bonding time and there is a good mix of core strength and flexibility work, kicking and punching, dynamic stability type stuff. I'm hoping cross training with karate will improve overall strength, speed and proprioception in golf (and life!) as well. I am excited that the dojo has a lot of 40+ and 50+ instructors that have been there and done that with respect to active life, aging, and injuries, and encourage especially older adults to practice to their ability without causing injury or overstepping physical limitations. It's been fun so far.
 
***Long winded post alert***

I have been dealing with this first hand over the last couple of years. After 2 years of constant back pain, I had an MRI done this past Fall. It was found that I have a degenerative disc (L5-S1) and arthritis in the facet joints around it. During my normal day to day activities it wasn't all that bothersome. It was only really debilitating during through impact and the follow through in my golf swing. Last Summer it got to the point that I could barely finish a round of golf. Playing 2 days in a row was not an option. In the past, my hips and shoulders felt very much disconnected. My swing would start from the ground up with a hard bump and turn of the hips. It felt like this would happen as my shoulders were still turning back. In my follow through, I was able to hang back with my upper body and my hips would be posted up over my left foot. There is no doubt in my mind that my swing caused my problems.

I had Radiofrequency ablation on the facet joints on my left side and a cortisone injection for the dis, as it finally got to the point where it was painful to get up in the morning. I have since gained back a lot of mobility. I have been seeing a chiro lately who checked out my MRI and in my consultation found that the joint was just not moving anymore. This lack of movement caused the disc to lose it's ability to get fluids. Since the only way for a disc to receive fluids is from the movement of the joint, it started to degenerate.

So, the plan of attack for the immediate future is two-fold. First, I need to regain mobility in that joint. I am working on a combination of McKenzie type extensions to force the joint to work through it's motions, combined with bi-weekly adjustments, I have actually begun to see some improvement. Second, he told me to quick babying it. I have avoided heavy load bearing exercises in fear that I was going to rupture the disc. I just have to play it safe and smart. I have to strengthen my core again. So, I am starting to do deadlifts and squats again. Not setting any personal records. Just getting the reps in with a moderate weight. Make sure the form is good and I am getting the full range of motion.

In regards to my swing. I am working on some things that limit the stress put on that joint. I am restricting my back swing to alleviate some of the stress and tendency to get my hips turned way ahead of my shoulders. I actually feel like I have a little more control over my swing and find that I am swinging just as hard as I was before. If I get a little wild and start to overswing, I can immediately feel it in my back. Thankfully, it is only a temporary pain and can go away shortly if I head the warning signs.

Sorry for the long back story. I just thought it valuable to the discussion to share my first hand experience and validate what they found. You don't have to be a tour player hitting balls every day all year long to suffer this fate. Our season is only about 6 months long if we're lucky. I play 1 or 2 times a week with sporadic range sessions thrown in during the season. I swing hard as I have always been very agile and had a natural tendency to hit the ball a long ways.

I was ready to give up and accept my fate of losing my game at the age of 37. Thankfully, I had the MRI done and actively searched for a solution. Back problems can be very complex and everybody's situations are different. What works for me, may not work for everyone else. Key is finding a solid professional who can help guide you and make a plan. Whether it's a dr., chiro, swing instructor.

So, my advice to any and everybody who will listen is: Strengthen your core by any means necessary. Whether it's compound lifts, yoga, golf specific workouts, etc. Listen to your body. If you notice something that doesn't feel right, figure it out what it is and address it right away. If you are looking to increase your speed, you absolutely have to increase your mobility/stability of your back/core. Your body has to be able to handle the additional stress you are trying to put on it. You may find that your speed increases because of that alone.

***End of long winded post*** :)
Good luck to you with your back problems. Sounds awful but so promising to have identified the issue and enact a plan for treatment.

Timely thread as I was just speaking with the club pro today about hip turn.

I've been very lucky to not ever really suffer the effects of constant back pain. Still, I've lost loads of time to injury preventing me from play.

I've had 9 herniated disks over the last 20 years but largely I experienced the immediate excruciating pain of the injury with its effects lasting for days, sometimes a week or more, but then slowly subsiding. Last one, on 12/21, was one of my worst. I was in terrible pain for 3 weeks and walking with a cane. Getting out of bed in particular was an extremely painful process. For the first time ever, I took prescription pain meds and later opted for epidural shots, receiving my 2nd one this past Friday.

L4/L5 for me with degenerative disks there, above and below. Also mild arthritis.

In the past, once my pain would subside it was a relatively clear and quick road back to normal function for all things except golf. I'd be back in the gym and while controlled and responsible, taking it very easy on legs in the short term, but largely unencumbered. Yet as for golf, no matter how good I might feel otherwise, golf was always months and months away. No degree of rabid core strengthening ever seemed to improve instability issues wrt the golf stance and swing.

I may have compounded my own issues wrt the golf swing in recent years. I used have a very long swing and my left arm would break down. I also had the propensity to slide rather than turn. Because I always hit it well with a quieter, more solid base like when playing out of a fairway bunker, I adopted more of that style all around.

I really didn't realize nor take note of the effects that firmer hips may have upon my lower back wrt torsional stresses. But because I've always been a strong person and I placed myself in a compromising position, I can't help but think my more rigid, mostly upper body coiling against a rigid base and all too violent turn through the ball, may be working against me.

The doc gave me the greenlight to play golf, starting slowly and responsibly of course. Today I putted, chipped, then hit short pitches with SW and LW, then hit some easy 8-irons.

I concentrated upon turning my hips on the backswing and turning them fluidly through the follow through, making sure my weight ended upon my posted front leg.

Worked like a darn charm. I only swung at what felt maybe 60% or so, but the ball was launching easily, really very well and carrying darn close to my former distance. The distance part surprised me.

A buddy and fellow member aware of my issues and first time back warned against my hitting long iron. When I showed him it was my 8-iron, he playfully cursed me and complimented the distance I was getting with such an easy swing.

There was zero strain upon my lower back but much of that may be attributed to the epidural shot. But I can say that everything felt way more free and easy and much more natural (biomechanically speaking, as I'll still need to attain a comfort level ast to muscle memory) than my prior swing.

Still, I'm aware that my current injury is merely masked rather than healed. Hoping beyond hope that a newer, friendlier approach to the swing along with changes in diet, hydration and exercise will realize positive benefit.
 
Good luck! I am interested to see how you progress through the season.
If you don't mind, I'm sorry if this is too personal, how old are you?
 
Does this actually come as a surprise to anyone? Any repeated motion over a long term can damage the associated joints and soft tissue, especially if you don't stretch and exercise in a way to protect those joints and balance the counter motion. Over-use syndrom.
 
As a physician I can with certainity that the modern golf swing does cause injury to the back. If you look back at the older players, Palmer, Nicklas, Player, etc, they did not have back problems as they rotated around the spine keeping the spine in aneutral position. They did not have the tremendous rotation the new palyers have to create the increased distance in the modern game.
 
Good luck to you with your back problems. Sounds awful but so promising to have identified the issue and enact a plan for treatment.

Timely thread as I was just speaking with the club pro today about hip turn.

I've been very lucky to not ever really suffer the effects of constant back pain. Still, I've lost loads of time to injury preventing me from play.

I've had 9 herniated disks over the last 20 years but largely I experienced the immediate excruciating pain of the injury with its effects lasting for days, sometimes a week or more, but then slowly subsiding. Last one, on 12/21, was one of my worst. I was in terrible pain for 3 weeks and walking with a cane. Getting out of bed in particular was an extremely painful process. For the first time ever, I took prescription pain meds and later opted for epidural shots, receiving my 2nd one this past Friday.

L4/L5 for me with degenerative disks there, above and below. Also mild arthritis.

In the past, once my pain would subside it was a relatively clear and quick road back to normal function for all things except golf. I'd be back in the gym and while controlled and responsible, taking it very easy on legs in the short term, but largely unencumbered. Yet as for golf, no matter how good I might feel otherwise, golf was always months and months away. No degree of rabid core strengthening ever seemed to improve instability issues wrt the golf stance and swing.

I may have compounded my own issues wrt the golf swing in recent years. I used have a very long swing and my left arm would break down. I also had the propensity to slide rather than turn. Because I always hit it well with a quieter, more solid base like when playing out of a fairway bunker, I adopted more of that style all around.

I really didn't realize nor take note of the effects that firmer hips may have upon my lower back wrt torsional stresses. But because I've always been a strong person and I placed myself in a compromising position, I can't help but think my more rigid, mostly upper body coiling against a rigid base and all too violent turn through the ball, may be working against me.

The doc gave me the greenlight to play golf, starting slowly and responsibly of course. Today I putted, chipped, then hit short pitches with SW and LW, then hit some easy 8-irons.

I concentrated upon turning my hips on the backswing and turning them fluidly through the follow through, making sure my weight ended upon my posted front leg.

Worked like a darn charm. I only swung at what felt maybe 60% or so, but the ball was launching easily, really very well and carrying darn close to my former distance. The distance part surprised me.

A buddy and fellow member aware of my issues and first time back warned against my hitting long iron. When I showed him it was my 8-iron, he playfully cursed me and complimented the distance I was getting with such an easy swing.

There was zero strain upon my lower back but much of that may be attributed to the epidural shot. But I can say that everything felt way more free and easy and much more natural (biomechanically speaking, as I'll still need to attain a comfort level ast to muscle memory) than my prior swing.

Still, I'm aware that my current injury is merely masked rather than healed. Hoping beyond hope that a newer, friendlier approach to the swing along with changes in diet, hydration and exercise will realize positive benefit.

Good luck my man. I can slide the hips from time to time when my back starts to hurt. Definitely puts strain on the back.

Hope that swing change helps you out. I've had a really hard time syncing up when I turn my hips more in the backswing. Sounds like it was an easy transition for you so far

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
If you don't mind, I'm sorry if this is too personal, how old are you?
Not at all. I'm 37. Back was a noticeable hindrance at age 35. Had a few sporadic episodes on the golf course before. But, it was really only once in a great while.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
Not at all. I'm 37. Back was a noticeable hindrance at age 35. Had a few sporadic episodes on the golf course before. But, it was really only once in a great while.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Got it. I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease a few years ago. I'm 35. 80% of 30 year olds have it, whether they know it or not. Don't let that diagnosis keep you down. It's normal and not a big deal. All the other stuff with your back, just get it stronger.

Look at Starting Strength and Barbell Medicine and just search for information on "back pain".
 
Got it. I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease a few years ago. I'm 35. 80% of 30 year olds have it, whether they know it or not. Don't let that diagnosis keep you down. It's normal and not a big deal. All the other stuff with your back, just get it stronger.

Look at Starting Strength and Barbell Medicine and just search for information on "back pain".

Thanks. I actually was using starting strength a few years ago. I branched off into more of a bro-split schedule last year. As far as the disc goes, I think it's probably something that can improve. The main source of discomfort at this point seems to be the facet joints. If my chiro is right, I should be able to get some mobility back.

Anyhow, outlook is positive now. Just took a long time to get all the info I needed to make a plan.

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