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New Drivers are they really longer?

I like new and shiny sometimes regardless of claims.


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You forget that those averages do not include just driver off the tee but all drives in the fairway on par 4 and par 5 holes.
 
GregDan said:
You forget that those averages do not include just driver off the tee but all drives in the fairway on par 4 and par 5 holes.
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The Tour average comes from measuring 2 drives per round. They try to pick a hole where drivers will be used and one downwind and one into the wind. I think they actually don't count it if the player doesn't use a driver.
 
I would also say I think Pros are using fewer drivers now than before. Since driving distance average is based on every tee box (not just when the driver is pulled out.) I would say there is also a HUGE difference in how tech aides Ams vs pros as well.
 
ddec said:
you are also quoting a story from 2012.
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The best part of this debate is always very easy.
Nobody is forced to buy any new golf equipment.
And its not hard to test how much things have changed in the last 10 years.

In fact we have done it at numerous THP Events. To compare a driver from 10 years ago to what is being done today is night and day. Sure the COR is the same, but that is about the only thing that is similar.
 
Yahash said:
I would also say I think Pros are using fewer drivers now than before. Since driving distance average is based on every tee box (not just when the driver is pulled out.) I would say there is also a HUGE difference in how tech aides Ams vs pros as well.
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Correction.... Drive averages per round on based on 2 holes in presumably opposite wind directions. It does not take into consideration fairway, or what club was actually used. from the PGA Tour website.
 
I would say there is a much bigger upside to a mid to high handicapper upgrading their driver as opposed to a scratch or pro. If it doesn't make you better, you don't have to buy it. In fact, you probably shouldn't unless you just really like it.

That being said, I would love to see some data that proves this argument. I'd love to see the distance comparison on center strikes as well as off-center strikes for the past several years of driver releases.
 
JB said:
The best part of this debate is always very easy.
Nobody is forced to buy any new golf equipment.
And its not hard to test how much things have changed in the last 10 years.

In fact we have done it at numerous THP Events. To compare a driver from 10 years ago to what is being done today is night and day. Sure the COR is the same, but that is about the only thing that is similar.
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since there is no noticeable difference on the tours lpga, pga tour. what would your experience be with amateur distance changes on direct and miss hits?
 
Have to agree with the others. If you go out (yourself) and play a driver from 2006, either on a launch monitor or just on your home course, and then take a similar sized driver from today and do the same. My guess is you'll find the numbers to be better today, in all ways across the board. Some more than others, but all better. Especially desperation and distance on off center hits.
 
ohio_striker said:
since there is no noticeable difference on the tours lpga, pga tour. what would your experience be with amateur distance changes on direct and miss hits?
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Its substantial.
Launch is higher
Spin is lower
Carry distance is further
And more importantly than all of that, while I know nobody online mis-hits very often, both distance and distance from center are both stronger by a decent margin.

While I think that marketing is fun and plays a role, to discount the materials and processes that have changed dramatically over the last decade is a by product of something else, and certainly not the equipment.

In the last 10 years we have seen
New Materials including tungsten and carbon fiber become affordable for mainstream use.
Adjustable weights
Adjustable face angles
Much higher end shaft options
Aerodynamics change dramatically
Weight savings never before thought possible
Higher MOI than thought possible
And a ton more.

We are seeing drivers that offer face impact forgiveness in ball speed and spin retentions in packages that have low spin design. That was a pipe dream a decade ago.
 
ohio_striker said:
i used the Tour stats because they are easy to find. i would be interested if there is anything on mid and high handicap driver distance average over the last 10 years.
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One other thing to note about pros on the PGA tour is that they generally do not hit the ball optimally. They hit a little more down on the ball and impart more spin than the optimal high trajectory/low spin model as they seem to prefer more spin/control with the driver. Comparatively, the LPGA pros have adopted a more optimal swing given their swing speeds.

All that said, I think that how PGA pros translate driver capabilities may not always be for distance.

Personally, I think that the driver tech improvement over the last 10 years or so has been significant with more ways to tune a club to fit a swing. IMO, with all the options getting that improvement means that a fitting is all the more important. Without a proper fitting and given all the tuning variables, it is a crap shoot as to whether your driver will perform as well as it can for you.
 
ohio_striker said:
i used the Tour stats because they are easy to find. i would be interested if there is anything on mid and high handicap driver distance average over the last 10 years.
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I have watched 1000s of swings and I can tell you technology is making a huge difference in the amateur golf circles. I have seen gains in players in just the past couple cycles of technology. Hell our fearless leader JB is crushing his GBB along side me. He has always been shorter than an and this year he caught and sometimes passes me.

The marketing is designed to sell clubs and does in many cases. It advertising that we get bombarded with everyday as it pertains to every part of our lives. It's life and here to stay.
 
Good discussion. From the numbers posted, it appears in 2014-15, approximately 20% more pro's than the previous years hit the ball over 300. 20% is a huge number.
 
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My own experience is that driver technology changes over the last 10 years were significant. Last year I went from a ~10 year old Cleveland Hibore XL to a BB Alpha 815. These were both off-the-shelf purchases. The new driver is consistently longer and straighter, particularly for shots where I don't nail the sweet spot, a good number. Also with the adjustability I am able to find a setup that helps me improve accuracy and influence a preferred shot shape/height. Obviously this upgrade was well worth the money for me. That's an n of 1 with a 10 year jump in technology. Qualitatively I believe that driver change helped me cut an average of 2-3 strokes per 18 holes.

I expect that year to year changes in drivers will probably have diminishing return on investment, all things equal. That said, this year I will get a new driver. I have never been fitted, and for me that will drive this purchase far more than new tech. But technology and driver changes do play into that as well, primarily because I think the shaft market has exploded in potential benefit with a range of options that enhance today's great driver heads. This experiment will again have an n of 1, but I look forward to seeing if this really will give me the benefit I desire.
 
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New Drivers are a waste of money..`

New Drivers are a waste of money..`

Waste I wouldn't go that far, if you just walk in grab a stiff 10.5 off the rack you probably won't see much change.

But getting a true fitting you will and it's not just center of face shots missing high/low, heel/toe are where the gains matter as very few amateurs find the center enough.


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It will always be difficult to discern what is hype and what is real technology. That is why, at least for me, I value THP because the diversity of those who are here can help inform anyone on how a new driver will perform. That's a good start, and the most important part is to try the driver yourself.
The last brand new driver I bought, before the recent one, was circa 2011, a TM RBZ. The next one is an M1. That's a 4 year gap, and the tech advantage is evident. Maybe if someone buys every year, the gains won't be so noticeable.
It's like every other product in the market - like Windows, or cell phones, or cars. Sometimes the tech takes a leap, sometimes it's just like last year's product, just newer and shinier.
I think I'm here at THP so I can buy smarter and I don't need to buy in every marketing spiel that comes around.
 
cbaker2882 said:
Haven't COR limits not changed in quite some time?
To compare numbers of a bunch of people that primarily strike the center of the face, there really isn't much tech that is going to drastically help them.

However, with them being able to generate the ball speeds drivers do now on miss-hits, that's where we're seeing the biggest improvement.
Some of the drivers out now can be night and day vs some drivers I've played from just a couple of years ago.
For me it's not about extra distance on good hits, it's about saved distance on poor hits. And IMO that's been upgraded quite a bit.
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Perfect analysis! :clapp:
 
I have had 4 drivers over the past 5 years and as the years have gone on I have found that my distance has increased by a tad but I am getting the distance more consistently. That could be from the driver tec, or the shaft, or my swing.
 
Using pro golfers as the basis for your theory certainly supports the assertion, but isn't valid. The tech available to recreational golfers today is so vastly greater than 15 years ago it really doesn't deserve to be compared. My steels headed, steel shafted King Cobra from 20 years ago might as well be from the dark ages - but Tiger played the same club and averaged nearly, if not over 300 yards with it. Pros will never see the same gains that most amateurs will, simply because the clubs don't provide the same benefits for them. A pro already hits the center of the face (mostly) and has the swing and techniques to minimize a lot of side spin. Recreational golfers benefit greatly from that technology - the club masks a lot of our deficiencies.

With that said, I have found nothing out there in 2016 that is so significantly better than my 2015 BBA DBD that I want to plunk down $400 to replace it. Year over year, the gains probably aren't there. Start talking 5 years, then you really get results.
 
Each driver I have purchased in the last several years has given me more distance. I don't think it is from higher c.o.r, but I do think many other factors contribute to distance:
1. Lower spin and better launch
2. More possible combinations to fit different needs
3. More shafts at no-charge upgrades
4. Adjustability
5. Forgiveness across the face - possibly the most significant to me personally
6. Easy access to proper fitting

Some days I can't find the center face with a gps, but newer technology allows me the ability to still play a solid round.
 
Comparing pro's to amateur golfers when it comes to distance/forgiveness is laughable IMO.

I know this is the internet and everyone hits it almost 3-bills, but the reality is the advances off center on drivers has come LIGHT YEARS and continues to improve. I see it every single review as I always track ball-speed retention data.
 
Jman said:
Comparing pro's to amateur golfers when it comes to distance/forgiveness is laughable IMO.

I know this is the internet and everyone hits it almost 3-bills, but the reality is the advances off center on drivers has come LIGHT YEARS and continues to improve. I see it every single review as I always track ball-speed retention data.
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Off center hits are a lot better for me than with drivers from even 3 years ago. It is laughable how bad I can miss it and still drive it 245+ yards and still be in the fairway. Back in my persimmon days a thin miss would often result in a 50 or 60 yard loss of distance.
 
The other thing to keep in mind is the driving distance on tour is base on 2 holes. The players don't necessarily use drivers on those 2 holes because they are utilizing course management in their club selection.

The below is taken from PGATour Statistics:
The average number of yards per measured drive. These drives are measured on two holes per round. Care is taken to select two holes which face in opposite directions to counteract the effect of wind. Drives are measured to the point at which they come to rest regardless of whether they are in the fairway or not
 
Jman said:
Comparing pro's to amateur golfers when it comes to distance/forgiveness is laughable IMO.

I know this is the internet and everyone hits it almost 3-bills, but the reality is the advances off center on drivers has come LIGHT YEARS and continues to improve. I see it every single review as I always track ball-speed retention data.
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i dont think anyone was comparing the two. just technology and distance/forgiveness. The tour just provided the stats.
 
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