We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Rule 10.2b Adam Schenk 2 shot penalty

DG_1234

DG_1234

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
6,211
Reaction score
1,931
Handicap
2
During Friday's round Adam Schenk's caddie stood down the line behind him as he took his stance a bunker and lined up a shot Saturday morning Adam Schenk received a penalty (for Friday's breach of Rule 10.2b).
This was similar to Denny McCarthy being penalized a few weeks ago at Phoenix, although McCarthy's penalty was (wrongly)rescinded after Justin Thomas spoke out against the USGA.
The problem here is the caddies. Too many of them have become enamored with the glamour of the Tour, the cameras etc... and they are inserting themselves into the action where they do not belong. Both McCarthy and Schenk's caddies knew the alignment Rule, yet they decided to play with fire , and they burned their player. The players are out there focusing and trying to execute their shots. They don't need a too big for his britches caddies posing for the cameras and causing the assessment of penalty shots.
At Phoenix McCarthy was rightly penalized, however it was rescinded because (after the caddie moved ) McCarthy stepped out of his posture/stance. But the reality is that (with the assistance of his caddie helping with alignment) a player may use something on the ground or in the distance as a reference point to align the clubface and body. So once that is done it does not matter if the players steps away, because he's already located an aiming reference point for that particular shot.
Schenk's caddie blatantly helped Schenk align his bunker shot Friday afternoon. Saturday morning, upon learning of the penalty, Schenk's caddie made things worse by arguing with Rules Official Slugger White.
The old caddie "rule" of a hundred years ago is still relevant today. That is, show, up, keep up, and shut up. I expect that as penalties are incurred players may expect less showboating and more humility from their caddies.
 
DaBuckBoys said:
This is a joke, right?

#hottake?
Click to expand...

In 2019 there have been three instances where a caddie caused a player to incur a 2 shot penalty. That's not a "joke", it's a fact.
 
DG_1234 said:
During Friday's round Adam Schenk's caddie stood down the line behind him as he took his stance a bunker and lined up a shot Saturday morning Adam Schenk received a penalty (for Friday's breach of Rule 10.2b).
This was similar to Denny McCarthy being penalized a few weeks ago at Phoenix, although McCarthy's penalty was (wrongly)rescinded after Justin Thomas spoke out against the USGA.
The problem here is the caddies. Too many of them have become enamored with the glamour of the Tour, the cameras etc... and they are inserting themselves into the action where they do not belong. Both McCarthy and Schenk's caddies knew the alignment Rule, yet they decided to play with fire , and they burned their player. The players are out there focusing and trying to execute their shots. They don't need a too big for his britches caddies posing for the cameras and causing the assessment of penalty shots.
At Phoenix McCarthy was rightly penalized, however it was rescinded because (after the caddie moved ) McCarthy stepped out of his posture/stance. But the reality is that (with the assistance of his caddie helping with alignment) a player may use something on the ground or in the distance as a reference point to align the clubface and body. So once that is done it does not matter if the players steps away, because he's already located an aiming reference point for that particular shot.
Schenk's caddie blatantly helped Schenk align his bunker shot Friday afternoon. Saturday morning, upon learning of the penalty, Schenk's caddie made things worse by arguing with Rules Official Slugger White.
The old caddie "rule" of a hundred years ago is still relevant today. That is, show, up, keep up, and shut up. I expect that as penalties are incurred players may expect less showboating and more humility from their caddies.
Click to expand...

Where did you get this article from?
Or did wrote it? If you did kudos on your writing. While I don’t agree with what rules the Tour chooses to enforce the write was well thought out and written well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
pmm21 said:
So this is your take on the situation? The caddies are looking for the limelight?
Click to expand...

Yes, in recent years Tour player prize money has increased dramatically. Consequently, caddies are receiving more money from the players. Also, caddies have begun to receive money from corporate sponsors for wearing logo hats, logo shirts etc...
It is fine, great really, that caddies are able to make more money than ever before. The problem is that as caddies have been receiving higher pay some of them have expanded their role (at a Tour event) beyond what is appropriate. Caddies causing penalties and arguing with Tour Officials is evidence of this problem.
 
Blatantly.

Hahahahaha
 
sposey013168 said:
Where did you get this article from?
Or did wrote it? If you did kudos on your writing. While I don’t agree with what rules the Tour chooses to enforce the write was well thought out and written well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks for your interest and kind words. My post is simply a message including my thoughts on the situation; I've read no "article" with the same information, and doubt there is one. In particular I am surprised by the Tour rescinding McCarthy's penalty at Phoenix. The USGA, Tour Officials, and certainly players should know that a player stepping away from his posture/stance (after the caddie had already helped him align that particular shot), in no way negates the assistance that the caddie previously provided. Specifically, once an aiming reference point is established, such as an old divot mark three feet ahead of the ball, or a t.v. tower in the distance, that reference point will remain helpful (because the player's ball and the aiming reference points he and his caddie found, are stationary).
 
DG_1234 said:
Yes, in recent years Tour player prize money has increased dramatically. Consequently, caddies are receiving more money from the players. Also, caddies have begun to receive money from corporate sponsors for wearing logo hats, logo shirts etc...
It is fine, great really, that caddies are able to make more money than ever before. The problem is that as caddies have been receiving higher pay some of them have expanded their role (at a Tour event) beyond what is appropriate. Caddies causing penalties and arguing with Tour Officials is evidence of this problem.
Click to expand...

I agree with your points of caddies making more and finding more "visible" sponsorships, but I disagree that any of them would be willing to risk their livelihood (the players placing in a tournament) in order to appease a sponsor, or even worse, get their face on camera. If I were a player and suspected a caddie of this, he would be gone before the end of the round.
 
Never have these issues with Mexican caddies, ask Kuch.
 
pmm21 said:
I agree with your points of caddies making more and finding more "visible" sponsorships, but I disagree that any of them would be willing to risk their livelihood (the players placing in a tournament) in order to appease a sponsor, or even worse, get their face on camera. If I were a player and suspected a caddie of this, he would be gone before the end of the round.
Click to expand...

Steve Williams was the first of the caddies that I recall becoming too big for his britches, showboating. For example, back when he worked for Tiger he adopted the (72nd hole) habit of taking off his caddie bib so that he could walk the 18th hole and green with his Valvoline logo shirt prominently displayed. It's great that Valvoline paid him money for wearing their logo, but the company did not demand Williams violate Tour Rules.
Williams liked the cameras on him, liked people taking about his behavior, so he did what he could to make that happen.
 
Caddies looking for the limelight, I’ve heard it all now! Lol
 
DG_1234 said:
Steve Williams was the first of the caddies that I recall becoming too big for his britches, showboating. For example, back when he worked for Tiger he adopted the (72nd hole) habit of taking off his caddie bib so that he could walk the 18th hole and green with his Valvoline logo shirt prominently displayed. It's great that Valvoline paid him money for wearing their logo, but the company did not demand Williams violate Tour Rules.
Williams liked the cameras on him, liked people taking about his behavior, so he did what he could to make that happen.
Click to expand...
Steve Williams may have been the exception in this case. Tiger wasn't going to can him, and I don't recall, but was tiger ever penalized because of his intentional actions?

Posted by my thumbs.
 
Staaaaahp.
 
Strike 1: Problem is caddies being too "enamored with the glamour of the Tour."
Strike 2: Caddie blatantly lined up player.
Strike 3:
The old caddie "rule" of a hundred years ago is still relevant today. That is, show up, keep up, and shut up.
Click to expand...

Now my eyes are brown and I'm full of it, but this is just hilarious. Is there even video of this out there?
 
pmm21 said:
Steve Williams may have been the exception in this case. Tiger wasn't going to can him, and I don't recall, but was tiger ever penalized because of his intentional actions?

Posted by my thumbs.
Click to expand...

Tiger did eventually fire Williams, but I expect that at the time Tiger was trying to make a comeback and wanted afresh start (including a new caddie).
Whether the Tour ever fined Tiger (or Williams) for Williams habit of removing his caddie bib, I doubt it. Tiger has always been the one player who the Tour events are truly dependent upon, so Tour Officials tread lightly around him. Also, it was Williams (using his status as Tiger's caddie) who persuaded the Tour to revoke the long standing Rule requiring caddies to wear long pants.
 
IMHO many PGA rules are pretty stupid. I think players should likewise get a penalty for lining up their putts using a black line on the ball.
 
Respect your opinion, but disagree with the sentiment entirely.

What I saw was a caddie bent down talking to his player, who was visibly lining up left of the caddies line to the flag. So if he was actually lining him up for the shot, he did it extremely poorly....
 
jlew2144 said:
Respect your opinion, but disagree with the sentiment entirely.

What I saw was a caddie bent down talking to his player, who was visibly lining up left of the caddies line to the flag. So if he was actually lining him up for the shot, he did it extremely poorly....
Click to expand...

At this point the most sensible solution is for players to instruct their caddies to never position themselves behind the player (looking down the line), because this will eliminate any and all chances for a breach of Rule 10.2b.
The Tour caddies have known about Rule 10.2b, but some choose to "test the waters", to "play with fire", and consequently three players have already received penalties.
My expectation is that players will now tell the caddies to never be in that position (behind the line looking down the line).My guess is that as of today, most players have already had this conversation with their caddies.
 
Are we sure the caddies are intentionally breaking the rules?

Are we sure they are doing it to get in the spotlight?

Seems like bad job security to me.
 
Lol. I thought this was a satire piece from Fried Eggs Golf or something.
 
tpluff said:
Strike 1: Problem is caddies being too "enamored with the glamour of the Tour."
Strike 2: Caddie blatantly lined up player.
Strike 3: The old caddie "rule" of a hundred years ago is still relevant today. That is, show up, keep up, and shut up.

Now my eyes are brown and I'm full of it, but this is just hilarious. Is there even video of this out there?
Click to expand...

Agree. With very few exceptions I imagine no caddies are out there to get exposure on TV. Is someone jealous of the glamorous lives of tour caddies?
 
Canadan said:
Are we sure the caddies are intentionally breaking the rules?

Are we sure they are doing it to get in the spotlight?

Seems like bad job security to me.
Click to expand...

Could just be they’re used to standing behind the player so they’re out of their way. To accuse them of cheating is kinda laughable and insulting to caddies.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top