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Rules question

dthogey

dthogey

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The picture below shows the scenario, sorry about the drawing , I did it with my finger on my tablet. I had pulled my second shot over the penalty area close to the adjacent Fareway. My Approach shot to the green was from approximately 190 yards away, I hit a great hybrid that flew just over the green, hit the downslope, and bounded into the bushes that separate that green from the next Tee Box. I could not find my ball but had a good idea of where it went in. This area is not marked with an out of bounds or penalty area.

My question is where do I drop? I know I had the option of going back to where I hit the shot from. I know that the new rules give us the option of putting the ball back in play with a two-stroke penalty. I'm just not sure where that drop should have been. I took a drop with a two-stroke penalty at the point where I thought the ball entered the bushes no closer to the hole. Was I correct in doing this?
829fbda08314894b3571313dfb6e957b.jpg


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I'm curious about the answer too. My first impulse is that this is OK but I'm not sure what rules have changed. I know some of the lateral hazard rules changed but those shouldn't apply here.
 
Lost ball might still be stroke and distance.
 
If the course has adopted the new local rule modification to stroke and distance you can drop with a two stroke penalty according to this new rule:
E-5 Alternative to Stroke and Distance for Lost Ball or Ball Out of Bounds

Purpose. When a provisional ball has not been played, significant issues with pace of play can result for a player needing to take stroke-and-distance relief for a ball that is out of bounds or cannot be found. The purpose of this Local Rule is to allow a Committee to provide an extra relief option that allows a player to play on without returning to the location of the previous stroke.

The Local Rule is appropriate for general play where golfers are playing casual rounds or playing their own competitions. The Local Rule is not appropriate for competitions limited to highly skilled players (that is, professional competitions and elite amateur competitions). For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes, consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Where a Committee has introduced such a Local Rule for general play, and removes it for competitions, it should ensure that all players are aware of this before play begins.

A Committee may introduce such a Local Rule for all play on the course or only for one or two specific holes where it may be especially useful (for example, where players are unable to see the landing area and therefore may not know whether or not to play a provisional ball).

This option allows the player to drop in a large area between the point where the ball is estimated to have come to rest or gone out of bounds and the edge of the fairway of the hole being played that is not nearer the hole.

The player gets two penalty strokes when using this relief option. This means that the relief is comparable to what could have been achieved if the player had taken stroke-and-distance relief.

This Local Rule cannot be used for an unplayable ball, or for a ball that is known or virtually certain to be in a penalty area.

If a provisional ball is played and neither the original ball nor the provisional ball can be found, then the Local Rule may be applied for the provisional ball that cannot be found.



Model Local Rule E-5

“When a player’s ball has not been found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds, the player may proceed as follows rather than proceeding under stroke and distance.

For two penalty strokes, the player may take relief by dropping the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

Come to rest on the course, or
Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

Size of Relief Area Based on Reference Points: Anywhere between:

A line from the hole through the ball reference point (and within two club-lengths to the outside of that line), and
A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line).

But with these limits:

Limits on Location of Relief Area:

Must be in the general area, and
Must not be nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

Once the player puts a ball in play under this Local Rule:

The original ball that was lost or out of bounds is no longer in play and must not be played.
This is true even if the ball is found on the course before the end of the three-minute search time (see Rule 6.3b).

But, the player may not use this option to take relief for the original ball when:

That ball is known or virtually certain to have come to rest in a penalty area, or
The player has played another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance (see Rule 18.3).

A player may use this option to take relief for a provisional ball that has not been found or is known or virtually certain to be out of bounds.
 
Every time I read the word estimation, or some form of that word estimate, in a rule, I cringe.
 
If you seen it go into the bushes you could of took a provisional just to be sure. Looking at the picture, it looks like the only spot really to lose a ball. I think you did the right thing there.

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OGputtnfool said:
Every time I read the word estimation, or some form of that word estimate, in a rule, I cringe.
Click to expand...

Then you must like rules like the new rule requiring a drop from knee height even less. What is the tolerance for that rule? Is it knee height with the player standing straight up? If the knee can be bent, how bent is allowable?

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin your day.
 
18.2 Ball Lost or Out of Bounds: Stroke-and-Distance Relief Must Be Taken
a. When Your Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds
When Ball is Lost. Your ball is lost if not found in three minutes after you or your caddie begin to search for it. If a ball is found in that time but it is uncertain whether it is your ball:
  • You must promptly attempt to identify the ball and are allowed a reasonable time to do so, even if that happens after the three-minute search time has ended.
  • This includes a reasonable time to get to the ball if you are not where the ball is found.
If you do not identify your ball in that reasonable time, the ball is lost.

14.6 on dropping;
4151b470891b9630f00bb3d70795cdf7.png
 
leftshot said:
Then you must like rules like the new rule requiring a drop from knee height even less. What is the tolerance for that rule? Is it knee height with the player standing straight up? If the knee can be bent, how bent is allowable?

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin your day.
Click to expand...
Oh, yeah, I hate that. If it were me, and I was in a high visibility spot, like RF, I'd lie down on the ground and drop it from knee height.

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OGputtnfool said:
Oh, yeah, I hate that. If it were me, and I was in a high visibility spot, like RF, I'd lie down on the ground and drop it from knee height.

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Click to expand...

How could you validate a knee high drop while lying on the ground?
 
Canadan said:
How could you validate a knee high drop while lying on the ground?
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be the height of your knee, just from knee height. You can lay on the ground and still drop the ball from about knee height.
 
Greg Kulbick said:
It doesn't have to be the height of your knee, just from knee height. You can lay on the ground and still drop the ball from about knee height.
Click to expand...

They need to add that to the diagrams lol

69e5a64ebfdbdca5cfcd2be626c88d54.png

22042873458c3f31cde0a72f298bcaee.png
 
Canadan said:
How could you validate a knee high drop while lying on the ground?
Click to expand...
You'd drop it at the height of your knee, roughly 1" above the ground.

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Canadan said:
This is a local rule that may not be established by that course. LOVE it though. Our course adapted it this year.
Click to expand...
This rule shows what you can do when the ball is lost between the tee and the green. And these scenarios there is Fairway to work with. In my scenario my ball had gone over the green there was no Fairway on that side.

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dthogey said:
This rule shows what you can do when the ball is lost between the tee and the green. And these scenarios there is Fairway to work with. In my scenario my ball had gone over the green there was no Fairway on that side.

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Click to expand...

I am wondering if you could fully circle the green to an equidistant location on the fairway there.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Whatever it takes to point out the ridiculousness of the rule.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand why dropping from knee height is more ridiculous than dropping from shoulder height. They're both arbitrary points above the ground. What am I not seeing?

My understanding is that rule change was implemented to prevent people from having the ball bounce & roll into a hazard/etc. so they could eventually place the ball where it struck the ground when dropped, and this would reduce that result & cause less placements by hand and more actual drops. It made sense to me.
 
Grins said:
I guess I don't understand why dropping from knee height is more ridiculous than dropping from shoulder height. They're both arbitrary points above the ground. What am I not seeing?

My understanding is that rule change was implemented to prevent people from having the ball bounce & roll into a hazard/etc. so they could eventually place the ball where it struck the ground when dropped, and this would reduce that result & cause less placements by hand and more actual drops. It made sense to me.
Click to expand...

The ridiculousness of the rule is the lack of variety. They may as well have just said "above knee height" but clearly went a bit too aggressive on the limitations.

You've got the rule down on your understanding in my books. By mid season I think it'll be a non-issue.
 
Grins said:
I guess I don't understand why dropping from knee height is more ridiculous than dropping from shoulder height. They're both arbitrary points above the ground. What am I not seeing?

My understanding is that rule change was implemented to prevent people from having the ball bounce & roll into a hazard/etc. so they could eventually place the ball where it struck the ground when dropped, and this would reduce that result & cause less placements by hand and more actual drops. It made sense to me.
Click to expand...
Because most people's arms are connected to their shoulder and more their knee. Simple to hold your arm out to drop instead of bending over top an arbitrary height. Dropping it over the back of the shoulder like they did many years ago made more sense than this knee height BS.

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If the ball doesn’t go out of bounds and is lost aren’t we supposed yo go back to where we hit the ball and drop?
 
tequila4kapp said:
If the ball doesn’t go out of bounds and is lost aren’t we supposed yo go back to where we hit the ball and drop?
Click to expand...
That's what I do unless I was smart enough to hit a professional.

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OGputtnfool said:
That's what I do unless I was smart enough to hit a professional.

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Click to expand...

Probably shouldn’t be hitting professionals.
 
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