David Leadbetter's A Swing book

I have been having some success with this swing so far this season. My handicap went from 20 to 11. Problems I keep having is with the driver. I have to back off of the v plane thing a bit or I hit a big nasty slice.


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Jmilla said:

I have been having some success with this swing so far this season. My handicap went from 20 to 11. Problems I keep having is with the driver. I have to back off of the v plane thing a bit or I hit a big nasty slice.


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I can agree with this. Maybe it's because of the club itself or just how I feel during the backswing, but it's tough to force myself to set the club upright and then tip it over to flatten it out on the downswing. It's a much more conscious movement than it is with my irons and hybrids. The other problem, as you said, is that if you don't successfully tip the shaft over to get it on plane, you come in impossibly steep and hit a massive slice.

Still, overall I like the swing pattern. I will say that in the book Leadbetter encourages a held-off release (not turning the wrists over through impact) that I don't agree with. If I'm aiming right and trying to get it to draw, a push (or worse a push-fade) is the worst possible miss, IMO. I'd rather get too much draw, or even a hook, than that. Otherwise it's the same problem I have with my prior swing, where I'm aiming for a fade and occasionally pull the ball.

I think most people are naturally vertical on the take away, then ott happens. With this particular swing, I simply concentrate on the flatten down swing with my driver. No slice here, only weak push when I'm not confident or pull hook when I over release.
Either way, the V plane, I believe can be modified so it feels natural, rather than forced action.

To me it looks a lot like the Hardy two-plane swing. Shoulders on one (shallow, almost level), arms on an almost vertical, intersecting plane. The "V" would correspond to a Hardy shallowing move.

I don't feel one way or the other about Leadbetter, the fact he's been successful and is his own little industry could mean he knows what he's talking about and has helped a lot of people or it could mean he's just good at marketing. The thing I don't like about that video is that it glosses over the actual downswing. Leadbetter shows the shallower plane (fine), then proceeds to take a swipe and hit a good-sounding shot. What I need to see is his explanation of what to do after the shallowing move. With Hardy he emphasizes the dropping of the hands ("karate chop"), then a rotary, Nicklaus-like turning-in-the-barrel left without changing your spine tilt (the tilt towards the ball). It's taught just like a Pete Cowen "redirect the clubhead" tutorial.

Perhaps Leadbetter has this in another video, I don't know.

Plin said:

I think most people are naturally vertical on the take away, then ott happens. With this particular swing, I simply concentrate on the flatten down swing with my driver. No slice here, only weak push when I'm not confident or pull hook when I over release.
Either way, the V plane, I believe can be modified so it feels natural, rather than forced action.

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OTT doesn't have to happen with a vertical swing. My take away is very vertical (a la Don Trahan), and as long as the follow thru is also vertical - you can hit the ball well and a long ways (I've been having the best ball striking year of my life since changing to a very vertical swing). The problem occurs when the BS is vertical and the follow thru is flat (or more around) - then you got problems!

BigE said:

OTT doesn't have to happen with a vertical swing. My take away is very vertical (a la Don Trahan), and as long as the follow thru is also vertical - you can hit the ball well and a long ways (I've been having the best ball striking year of my life since changing to a very vertical swing). The problem occurs when the BS is vertical and the follow thru is flat (or more around) - then you got problems!

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That's the whole A swing. Flat down swing. Ryan Moore style. Vertical doesn't equal OTT I agree. But most people's issue is a much too vertical swing with inconsistent downswing, usually a ott move.

Plin said:

That's the whole A swing. Flat down swing. Ryan Moore style. Vertical doesn't equal OTT I agree. But most people's issue is a much too vertical swing with inconsistent downswing, usually a ott move.

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Agree 100%.....

After trying this a bit after buying the book, I have really gone away from this. I struggled trying get back on one plane and coming at the ball on a different path.

I have been playing much better golf, but missing right due to thrusting my hips forward (week core on my part) since I gave up trying to force this new swing. I think it could be a solid swing, but I think it would take some time/effort to get this ingrained so IMHO it kind of defeats the purpose for me.

OK, so I've been using this swing technique for a few range sessions now, including a very long one today.This is really the first time I'm approaching the swing as a systemic idea. Up until now, it's been swinging how I swing, developing flaws, getting a lesson, correcting flaws, repeat. I'm probably viewing some points of this swing as things that could be fixed with a lesson. Others are attempts of a more traditional "five lessons" swing to creep in while I'm trying to put this swing into practice.

1) The grip matters more than I want it to. I don't like the "prayer" or butterfly grip. I don't find it particularly comfortable. But in enables the wrist hinge you need to really get the club pointed the right way at the top of the backswing to make the proper club path on the downswing work correctly. It stinks, but it does. This has caused some alignment issues and affected my pre-shot routine. If I do my usual pre-show routine, I end up with a very closed club-face at impact, because of how I grip the club and what I expect my right hand to do. The weak right hand has taken a lot of getting used to. For me right now it's set the club, grip with the left and right much more one after the other, to prevent an excessively strong left hand from creating a very closed club face at impact. The point is, the grip matters, because it really affects the backswing and release with this swing.

2) Because of the wrist hinge that's enabled by the grip, I have a tendency to stop turning the shoulders early. Once you start talking about the longer half of the bag, not turning the shoulders enough means my upper-body catches up to the lower body way too soon, the club still gets over the top, and I hit a slice, or get poor contact otherwise. The feel for me is the shoulders start the backswing, they slow down a bit as the club hinges, and they make a last little turn at the end to get fully cocked. It's a sequencing thing.

3) With longer clubs, really feeling the shallower downswing is huge. Relaxing, feeling the rhythm that the different parts of the A swing induces, is really important for this swing, IMO. The club speed is still there with the woods and hybrids, but it feels like it takes longer to get from the top to impact than it does with a more conventional swing...then again, my lefts and rights are much better than with a conventional swing.

4) There is no 3/4 swing. For me, so much of this swing is the position at the top of the backswing that forces the club into a shallower plane on the downswing. For nearly all things wedges, or for the idea of punch shots, low runners, and other improvisation, I haven't yet figured out how the A Swing fits into that. When I try a lot of goofy shots, I just hit blocks.

5) Ultimately, this swing does two things, both of which are pretty good, IMO...it gets you swinging along the plane or line of your feet. Not necessarily in-to-out. I feel like this is a big distinction, because the swing encourages a closed stance. The other thing it does is it does inhibit a more conventional "turn your wrists/hands/forearms over" release. The weak right hand and strong left hand makes that move kinda awkward for me. If you square your stance with this swing, you will probably fade/slice the ball, IMO. This actually makes lining up to hit a fade really easy, which is good, because the swing as it's defined in the book generally produces draws through the middle of the bag. I think this swing is capable of producing both shot shapes, as needed.

As I said, this is really just my takes on putting this swing into practice. I love this swing, overall. It's given me more confidence I can keep the ball in play and hit it a decent distance off the tee in awhile. For that, it's worth sticking with.

I've been playing with this for a month now and my irons a wah better with my drives improving. I am still slicing gives and can feel the club face staying open. Any tips? Or does anyone have a better visual breakdown of the grip?

You may need swing analyser though. That's actually good for improving your swing to see the statistics or lines about it.
I also considered lesson but quite satisfied with SwingTalk as analyser. it talks to me when my swing is done and is helpful to recognise how my swing was carried out and what I could fix or correct on next time.

Anyone still using the A swing? I had gave it up, but went back to it during two range sessions this weekend & it seemed to work pretty good with the irons. Good distances and pretty consistent shot shape.

In the past.....this swing always worked better with the irons than wood.

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I posted in another thread that I am 100% in on the A-Swing. My weakness has always been rolling the wrists and getting way too inside on the takeaway. The first few times I played with it I was getting the back swing correct, but dropping the club way under plane, goat humping and hitting blocks. Once I got the feeling of letting my pivot shallow the club vs. doing it with my arms I am hitting the ball the best I have in 10 years.

This book has really saved my game.Its presented in a way that is super simple to understand.The drills only take 7 minutes a day and truly ingrain the move.My slice has been alleviated into a nice simple fade using this and broke 80 twice last year.

Jmilla said:

I have been having some success with this swing so far this season. My handicap went from 20 to 11. Problems I keep having is with the driver. I have to back off of the v plane thing a bit or I hit a big nasty slice.


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I may look into this as those results are impressive!!

What I think it did was keep me connected as I don't go across the line but try to make a more upright backswing and naturally shallow out the downswing. Also my contacts is better and as I got used to this my distance came back. Was not able to use with the driver though.


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Jmilla said:

What I think it did was keep me connected as I don't go across the line but try to make a more upright backswing and naturally shallow out the downswing. Also my contacts is better and as I got used to this my distance came back. Was not able to use with the driver though.


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Perhaps with the driver you're concentrated too much on the hand action and not on the rest of the body swing. I know it'd be easy to get caught up on the change of shaft plane and forget the proper weight shift, resulting in a handsy swing.

Jmilla said:

What I think it did was keep me connected as I don't go across the line but try to make a more upright backswing and naturally shallow out the downswing. Also my contacts is better and as I got used to this my distance came back. Was not able to use with the driver though.


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I don't try to get as steep with the shaft in the backswing with my driver. Since the driver sits at a much flatter lie angle than a wedge, the club will point more down the line at the top vs across.

Yeah probably did both things poorly lol. Just focusing on the body action made my driver better.


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Saw this book at the store.Is this legit or a gimmick!How many of us have the ability to drop the club on a lower plane in the downswing?looks so difficult to accomplish

Chip said:

Saw this book at the store.Is this legit or a gimmick!How many of us have the ability to drop the club on a lower plane in the downswing?looks so difficult to accomplish

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I got his book on the Kindle. All last season worked on the A swing. I'm hitting the ball longer, straighter and more solid than I have ever been. The biggest improvement is the accuracy in my lower irons and wedges.
I does take getting used to hinging the wrist immediately, taking the club out side then dropping it into the slot.
The one big thing is to start the swing with your core and not your arms. That's where I get in trouble sometimes.

mski said:

I got his book on the Kindle. All last season worked on the A swing. I'm hitting the ball longer, straighter and more solid than I have ever been. The biggest improvement is the accuracy in my lower irons and wedges.
I does take getting used to hinging the wrist immediately, taking the club out side then dropping it into the slot.
The one big thing is to start the swing with your core and not your arms. That's where I get in trouble sometimes.

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Wouldn't that fast upright hinge lead to a chopping motion on the way down?I was told width on the backswing.Just reminds me of picking it straight up and chopping down.Curious on this method

Led is one of the best in the business. Ask nick prove if he felt this method was troublesome.

Who is nick prove?

Nick Price