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Local rule on "penalty areas" do you agree?

chriso97

chriso97

Mad Golfer
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My home course just implemented a local rule to make all penalty areas (water hazards) no play zones (i.e you MUST take the penalty drop even if your ball is playable.)

Thoughts?

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chriso97 said:
My home course just implemented a local rule to make all penalty areas (water hazards) no play zones (i.e you MUST take the penalty drop even if your ball is playable.)

Thoughts?

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What was their reasoning for it? And what are they defining as penalty areas?
 
My course has the same thing. All Lateral Hazards are deemed "environmental areas" and you aren't permitted to play your ball out of them, or even retrieve your ball (nobody obeys this one).

It's annoying when your ball is a couple feet in and very playable, but you get used to it after a while.
 
Canadan said:
What was their reasoning for it? And what are they defining as penalty areas?
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Penalty area is the new term for water essentially (although it allows a course more flexibility cos they can mark anything as a penalty area.

I did ask what the motivation was but haven't heard yet. Rumours are that some people think that when the water dries up (which it does in summer) there isn't enough of a penalty for going into them so the big hitters are just blazing away.


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Im thinking it possible this may be a bit in line with an allowed local rule for lost or oob balls where a drop and stroke is ok vs stroke and distance. Though not exactly the same thing, just perhaps this is the thinking to help with pace? IDK just guessing here but I can see where playing out of penalty areas can perhaps be a pace issue.
 
chriso97 said:
Penalty area is the new term for water essentially (although it allows a course more flexibility cos they can mark anything as a penalty area.

I did ask what the motivation was but haven't heard yet. Rumours are that some people think that when the water dries up (which it does in summer) there isn't enough of a penalty for going into them so the big hitters are just blazing away.
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Sorry I wasn't clear. I am very familiar with the new terminology, just trying to figure out what they are deeming penalty areas as that definition is quite free this year (heather, swampy areas, drainage, etc). If the penalty areas are purely where water "should" exist I support them making the adjustment to make them unplayable. Makes perfect sense to me.
 
Maybe they want to collect the balls and sell them back to you...
 
I think it stinks. I think a player should be able to play his ball if it's playable.

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dthogey said:
I think it stinks. I think a player should be able to play his ball if it's playable.

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This- Before this year they were called only "Hazards" which implied that it could be played, but at your risk. Like a ball half submerged- definitely playable, but possibly result in other problems or additional strokes. But you can decide to take a drop or whatever. Calling it a "Penalty" area implies that there are no other options but to take the penalty regardless of playability. They might be interpreting the name change as gospel and over reacting. If that's the case then point out they changed the rules about contact with the area inside those "penalty" areas while taking your shot FROM those areas.
 
ArmyGolf said:
My course has the same thing. All Lateral Hazards are deemed "environmental areas" and you aren't permitted to play your ball out of them, or even retrieve your ball (nobody obeys this one).

It's annoying when your ball is a couple feet in and very playable, but you get used to it after a while.
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We had a couple of areas that were determined to be this at the course I use to work at. Basically it wasn't up to us, but the province determined it to be protected, so we had to do our part to protect it.
 
Is that even allowed in the rules? I would look it up, but I don't care. Of course, in Australia, I assume there is just a snake or a spider or some other horror creature in those areas that is waiting to kill me.
 
chriso97 said:
Rumours (sic) are that some people think that when the water dries up (which it does in summer) there isn't enough of a penalty for going into them so the big hitters are just blazing away.
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When put into this context - of the hazard becoming less penal over the course of the season, I agree with the local rule. Might also speed play up a bit if folks aren't marching through a hazard locating and playing the ball.
 
blugold said:
Is that even allowed in the rules? I would look it up, but I don't care. Of course, in Australia, I assume there is just a snake or a spider or some other horror creature in those areas that is waiting to kill me.
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Yeah, those scary snakes are everywhere, just waiting for ya :)

I don't like it, in fact I'm strongly against it. but there's nothing I can do (other than ask the question of the club, which I have done.

Its not pace of play, because I reckon it takes longer to find your ball and then argue over the correct drop zone etc.

I guess it's like those times when your ball is "just" OB but perfectly playable.








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donny475 said:
Maybe they want to collect the balls and sell them back to you...
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haha, some courses have environmental areas that are protected and you're not supposed to enter. Sounds like for the OP, this isn't the case and you can still at least retrieve your ball.
 
chriso97 said:
Yeah, those scary snakes are everywhere, just waiting for ya :)

I don't like it, in fact I'm strongly against it. but there's nothing I can do (other than ask the question of the club, which I have done.

Its not pace of play, because I reckon it takes longer to find your ball and then argue over the correct drop zone etc.

I guess it's like those times when your ball is "just" OB but perfectly playable.








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The other option is that you take your business elsewhere
 
chriso97 said:
Yeah, those scary snakes are everywhere, just waiting for ya :)

I don't like it, in fact I'm strongly against it. but there's nothing I can do (other than ask the question of the club, which I have done.

Its not pace of play, because I reckon it takes longer to find your ball and then argue over the correct drop zone etc.

I guess it's like those times when your ball is "just" OB but perfectly playable.








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At the end of the day it's a hazard. Just pretend it's a pond since it now plays the same way.
 
There are some good reasons why clubs might want penalty zones (water hazards) as no play zones.

Some ponds use bentonite, which means they have a clay base (natural barrier) but it is sticky and slick, people could fall in but the real reason is they don't want to destroy that thin layer so it retains water better.
Wildlife and habitat regulations are another. Some like cactus or poison ivy might be for the players, but I imagine most reasons given would cover other parts of this world.

You could ask, but without knowing why local rules apply. I don't have any meaningful thoughts about it.

Edit (Ok, I lied. One more thought): The bentonite lined ponds might also play more into the playable lies where the water was supposed to be... Especially during summer when irrigation is at full tilt.
 
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RayG said:
This- Before this year they were called only "Hazards" which implied that it could be played, but at your risk. Like a ball half submerged- definitely playable, but possibly result in other problems or additional strokes. But you can decide to take a drop or whatever. Calling it a "Penalty" area implies that there are no other options but to take the penalty regardless of playability. They might be interpreting the name change as gospel and over reacting. If that's the case then point out they changed the rules about contact with the area inside those "penalty" areas while taking your shot FROM those areas.
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I read an article about "hazards" this morning. To your point, the word is no longer in the rules.

The modernization efforts by the U.S. Golf Association and R&A have been lauded and criticized, depending whom you ask, but little attention has been paid to the fact that on Jan. 1, for the first time since the original rules were put in play on April 2, 1744, by The Gentlemen Golfers at Leith Links near Edinburgh, Scotland, the word “hazard” no longer appears in golf’s rulebook.
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https://golfweek.com/2019/03/10/golf-life-the-death-of-the-hazard-1744-2018-r-i-p/
 
I know in the case of my home course, its a Certified Audubon Cooperative Sanctuary so there are a lot of nesting areas that are protected.
 
blugold said:
The other option is that you take your business elsewhere
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That's a bit dramatic, I'm not going to be that extreme.

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NullNomad said:
I know in the case of my home course, its a Certified Audubon Cooperative Sanctuary so there are a lot of nesting areas that are protected.
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I have no issue if there's a genuine reason. What I don't like is if your ball is just over a crappy red line on the ground, but cant be played because someone said so.

What I also don't like is they did this basically overnight, so there will be some confusion and guys who don't know/don't care and just play it anyway.




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chriso97 said:
I have no issue if there's a genuine reason. What I don't like is if your ball is just over a crappy red line on the ground, but cant be played because someone said so.

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What about it being just over a crappy white line?
 
chriso97 said:
I have no issue if there's a genuine reason. What I don't like is if your ball is just over a crappy red line on the ground, but cant be played because someone said so.

What I also don't like is they did this basically overnight, so there will be some confusion and guys who don't know/don't care and just play it anyway.




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Yeah, I'm sure there will be plenty of players who'll scoff at that rule just like they do the myriad of other rules. I mean, if we can't get people to follow all the USGA/R&A established rules, who really thinks we can get people to follow all the local rules.

For the record, I think it's stupid. If it's playable, then the player should be able to play it.
 
Parrot said:
What about it being just over a crappy white line?
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Not to speak for Chris, but a white line, as you well know, is very different from a red or yellow line. If it's across the white line, it's not even on the course anymore (most of the time).
 
OGputtnfool said:
Not to speak for Chris, but a white line, as you well know, is very different from a red or yellow line. If it's across the white line, it's not even on the course anymore (most of the time).
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True but it is still crappy white line that my ball can be a hair over and I can’t play it just because someone said so. Hell, I might just be a victim of a line painted in the wrong place. :banana::drinks:
 
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