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New HC Rule, following or not?

Mizunofan99 said:
I think the rule sucks but I don't think we get to chose which rules we do or do not follow! Handicaps would mean nothing if we each chose a rule we didn't like and did it "OUR WAY". Just a point of view to think about. Petitioning the USGA to change the rule would make more sense! To each his own!
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If you want to play in officially sanctioned USTA tennis leagues, you follow the USTA ranking system. If you just want to play tennis to play, you are not behold to the USTA. Same with golf ... plenty of ways to track handicap without needing to worry about the USGA, particularly if you have no desire to play in USGA events. All you need is a few variables and you can keep track yourself.
 
The argument for the rule that I can't seem to wrap my head around is that it will make handicaps more accurate. I'm not great at math but I'm pretty sure that the more data points you have the more accurate your calculations will be.

So if you take away half of someone's rounds that is going to give them a more accurate handicap? Color me confused.

All this is going to do is make the honest golfers handicaps less accurate while cheaters will continue to cheat.
 
Sort of but handicaps are always only 20 rounds of data points and if you play tournaments last however of those I forget the number.

I agree in general though, honestly will only really mess up people who only play 20 rounds a year and half are alone.
 
I strangely haven't played any solo rounds this year. If I do, I will post them. The rule doesn't really make much sense so not sure why we should adhere to it.
 
New HC Rule, following or not?

I don't play many solo rounds so this won't effect me that much. And usually when I'm solo I drop balls in bunkers and from yardages and just practice.

With that being said, IMO it's still a dumb rule. It makes it look like thee USGA doesn't trust people to play on their own and post an score. Seems like more of an inconvenience for those that play solo and want to follow the rules.
 
Rule doesn't seem all that great at first blush. My 1 thought to the argument of "you can't choose which rules to follow" would be that this is an administrative rule that doesn't really effect your true score. It is NOT the same as saying I will take a drop from a divot, which is something that can impact a score.

Like taking a test that says you must use black ink when you only have blue. Doesn't mean you don't know the material.
 
If you can't post solo rounds what's the sense of having a HC? If you cheat on your scorecard, you're only cheating yourself.
 
Fourputt said:
Handicaps are intended for use in competition. When playing a competition, there will always be someone playing with you. Thus it's logical that your handicap be established under those same conditions. If you don't compete, there is really no reason to have an "official" handicap.

If the rumors I've heard are true, and the governing bodies are moving toward instituting a global handicap system, this may be part of a requirement put in by some of the other entities involved.

One more thing that nobody has mentioned that I've seen. Maybe this is seen as a way to grow the game. If you don't have any friends who play, but you want to keep a legitimate handicap, then maybe you bring a non golfing friend along and he gets interested in the game, and you just added a new player to the ranks. Who knows? :golf2:
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I had to come back to this one.
I don't play in any official competition. Or at least not yet. One of the reasons I started keeping a handicap 2seasons ago is because if I do decdide to play in one or two event that my county offers, I cant do it without an official cap. So therefore I then joined an official HC association. But there are more reasons too. Its a nice way to track progress and to know where you stand (or rank) with your own golf within the entire golfing community. Sure one can keep an unofficial cap too and know just as well how his own golf stacks up. But there is also something much more to it than that and it has to do with my attraction for the sport itself regardless if I ever play in any official event or not. Its a matter of officially being part of it. Almost as though feeling like an official participant. Not in true competition but just in a participating nature sort of way and as though you belong or are a part of the sport. There doesn't have to be imo any real official event or competition. Just belonging holds value for many people. One pays a fee and then belongs and posts scores even if for no other reason other than to track their own status within the rankings but also to just be a part of it all. I happen to have one more additional reason and that is that I will need to do it if I chose to enter one of my county events. But even without that I still think for the other reasons its quite ok for one to want to be part of it in his own way. That may not make any sense to many people and even sound foolish. But imo everyone should be able to do this.

As far as growing the game. Its things like this I just mentioned, basically being able to be a part of it and feeling like one belongs that would help grow it imo. Its having requirements and a process in order to belong that could be more the deterrent as that creates an outsider looking in type of scenario. It would not be as freely welcoming in that sense.
 
I don't like the idea being thrown out by some that a handicap is less "legitimate" purely because someone is playing alone. An honest person will post an honest score, and a dishonest person will post a dishonest score. Forcing people to play together solves nothing in this, because the honest person will still be honest, and the dishonest person will still be dishonest..

Next thing you know, the USGA is going to block a persons ability to post their own score. Rather, it will need to be submitted by a playing partner. At that point I'll probably stop having a legitimate handicap.
 
Canadan said:
I don't like the idea being thrown out by some that a handicap is less "legitimate" purely because someone is playing alone. An honest person will post an honest score, and a dishonest person will post a dishonest score. Forcing people to play together solves nothing in this, because the honest person will still be honest, and the dishonest person will still be dishonest..

Next thing you know, the USGA is going to block a persons ability to post their own score. Rather, it will need to be submitted by a playing partner. At that point I'll probably stop having a legitimate handicap.
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And as (I thiunk) is what "fourputt" mentioned is what use to be the case. And can recall people needing signatures on their cards and all that stuff but to be fair I don't know at the time (years ago) what or why that was going on because I had nor involvement with andthing handicap wise back then so I could be wrong as for my assumption of what was going on.

But in any case (what you mention) that's what is kind of upsetting about it and also imo a deterrent.
Even some HC club associations have rules too. I don't know if its association specific or USGA wide. But the first HC ass I joined required one to play in at least one event and also play with another member at least 3 times. I couldn't play in any their events nor did I know anyone there. And my life was not such that I would be able to find members and common time and try to play with them nor was any event fitting to my life and schedule. The point is, that the more requirements and quotas an authority wants to implant on existing or would be members, then imo the more disconnected they force you to be. This is not like we are talking about a private country club but just to run a handicap paying the join up fee should be all that is required. These minor things but (on a larger scale such as the hypothetical you mention) that work to make golf less welcoming is where golf gets a bad rap for being a game of elitists or a game which creates a disconnect from the general public and yet then at the same time cry's and wants to know why there are not a lot more people taking part. Joining the USGA and/or being able to join an association just to post scores and allowing it to be an easy stress free welcoming thing so one can feel a belonging to the sport is important and anything otherwise is a turn off.
 
Mizunofan99 said:
I think the rule sucks but I don't think we get to chose which rules we do or do not follow! Handicaps would mean nothing if we each chose a rule we didn't like and did it "OUR WAY". Just a point of view to think about. Petitioning the USGA to change the rule would make more sense! To each his own!
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I sent them a letter and canceled my membership, but I doubt that will get any response from them.

I think many golfers, including THPer's tend to ignore this and other USGA rules. I know a lots on this forum use a slope rangefinder in slope mode during practice rounds. It's clearly not allowed to post any rounds where a slope rangefinder is used but I'm sure many of those rounds are posted.
 
rollin said:
And as (I thiunk) is what "fourputt" mentioned is what use to be the case. And can recall people needing signatures on their cards and all that stuff but to be fair I don't know at the time (years ago) what or why that was going on because I had nor involvement with andthing handicap wise back then so I could be wrong as for my assumption of what was going on.

But in any case (what you mention) that's what is kind of upsetting about it and also imo a deterrent.
Even some HC club associations have rules too. I don't know if its association specific or USGA wide. But the first HC ass I joined required one to play in at least one event and also play with another member at least 3 times. I couldn't play in any their events nor did I know anyone there. And my life was not such that I would be able to find members and common time and try to play with them nor was any event fitting to my life and schedule. The point is, that the more requirements and quotas an authority wants to implant on existing or would be members, then imo the more disconnected they force you to be. This is not like we are talking about a private country club but just to run a handicap paying the join up fee should be all that is required. These minor things but (on a larger scale) that work to make golf less welcoming is where golf gets a bad rap for being a game of elitists or a game which creates a disconnect from the general public and yet then at the same time cry's and wants to know why there are not a lot more people taking part.
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I actually don't mind the idea of a handicap being attested once every ten posted rounds or something to that extent.

If they came out with a rule that said one in every five rounds or one in every ten rounds would retire attestation or even clubhouse signoff at my course, I would strongly support it. It's the absolute they create by saying "NO INDIVIDUAL ROUND" that seems over the top ridiculous.
 
Canadan said:
I actually don't mind the idea of a handicap being attested once every ten posted rounds or something to that extent.

If they came out with a rule that said one in every five rounds or one in every ten rounds would retire attestation or even clubhouse signoff at my course, I would strongly support it. It's the absolute they create by saying "NO INDIVIDUAL ROUND" that seems over the top ridiculous.
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100% agree. I'd have no problem with every round requiring attestation. Saying you have to have someone on the course with you - and that has no relationship whatsoever to attestation - is beyond absurd.
 
Canadan said:
I actually don't mind the idea of a handicap being attested once every ten posted rounds or something to that extent.

If they came out with a rule that said one in every five rounds or one in every ten rounds would retire attestation or even clubhouse signoff at my course, I would strongly support it. It's the absolute they create by saying "NO INDIVIDUAL ROUND" that seems over the top ridiculous.
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tequila4kapp said:
100% agree. I'd have no problem with every round requiring attestation. Saying you have to have someone on the course with you - and that has no relationship whatsoever to attestation - is beyond absurd.
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But attesting to ones score would be for the same reasons they believe they are doing this. Either way its basically saying you cant be trusted. And not for nothing, but even when leagues and association events only count the HC's that people post in events (which imo is a good way to eliminate the sandbagging) that too is till about trust. No?

But part of my point was more about how its often said that golf is sort of an us and them atmosphere and that then makes the game less attractive to the masses. Any of these processes are well.....a process, a requirement, an obligation which is basically a stress to worry about even if a small one. Basiically saying ":we ant you to golf and support our sport" ....""but in order to do properly do so you must do this and that"...
That is not imo really a welcoming nor inviting hand . Its in some ways a separator or at very least a deterrent imo. Just imo not the best way to grow a sport. "come on over and join our cause" Oh but wait...."you cant just come in, we have requirements". Sure I may be a bit over exaggerating. But even minor things that make something less than easy does become a deterrent imo.
 
rollin said:
But attesting to ones score would be for the same reasons they believe they are doing this. Either way its basically saying you cant be trusted. And not for nothing, but even when leagues and association events only count the HC's that people post in events (which imo is a good way to eliminate the sandbagging) that too is till about trust. No?

But part of my point was more about how its often said that golf is sort of an us and them atmosphere and that then makes the game less attractive to the masses. Any of these processes are well.....a process, a requirement, an obligation which is basically a stress to worry about even if a small one. Basiically saying ":we ant you to golf and support our sport" ....""but in order to do properly do so you must do this and that"...
That is not imo really a welcoming nor inviting hand . Its in some ways a separator or at very least a deterrent imo. Just imo not the best way to grow a sport. "come on over and join our cause" Oh but wait...."you cant just come in, we have requirements". Sure I may be a bit over exaggerating. But even minor things that make something less than easy does become a deterrent imo.
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I'm not so sure it's about trusting the individual, but rather the masses... And I don't feel offended if I were to be sat down with 400 other people and a person leading the room in conversation openly says he believes 20 of the people in the room cheat -- Frankly I'd tell him to raise his number -- I wouldn't sit there thinking "wow he thinks I cheat" and the same applies to all this... I just don't think it needs to be an every round occurrence.
 
Canadan said:
I'm not so sure it's about trusting the individual, but rather the masses... And I don't feel offended if I were to be sat down with 400 other people and a person leading the room in conversation openly says he believes 20 of the people in the room cheat -- Frankly I'd tell him to raise his number -- I wouldn't sit there thinking "wow he thinks I cheat" and the same applies to all this... I just don't think it needs to be an every round occurrence.
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I think you took my meaning a bit different than intended. The rule change is (I have to assume) about cheating. And so are other types of rules and guidelines. And its not about feeling insulted. At least I never would. But my point was about it possibly being a pain in the but or simply anything less than easy which (regardless of the reasons for them) does work to create a disconnect. Some of the negatives things about golf to an outsider and would be participant is a lack of comfortableness, feelings of not belonging, and also having to go through a process. Adding things to any of those works as a deterrent and not as an inviting gesture.

You said yourself that if you couldn't post your own score you would no longer run a cap. And this is what I mean by what I've said. To people on the outside that golf is trying to recruit it takes a lot lessor things than that to act as a deterrent. It simply becomes even less welcoming on top of their already insecure feelings. And it doesn't do that via one feeling insulted but simply via the fact that it now requires more to do in order to be part of it. Sort of as mentioned, its like you want to run a cap (which many people do just to be and feel like part of the sport) but instead of just paying a fee that person needs to meet requirements just to post scores. And that idea is imo a deterrent. Its now a lot less than easy. It works in a way negatively as for growing the sport to new people imo.
 
I just plain don't like the rule. I play rounds by myself, I play rounds with strangers and I play rounds with folks I know. When I'm with folks I know I will either keep everyone's score or someone else will, but if I'm playing with strangers, most times they could care less what your score is nevertheless keeping track of if you are writing the correct scores down. People who are going to cheat are going to cheat no matter what, and it goes both ways. Folks don't post bad scores for the vanity of a low cap, or they will not post low scores to sandbag. As far as only accepting scores that you shoot in a league for handicapping in that league, even that has pitfalls depending on formats, I see guys in leagues that play like its solely a skins game, if they have a shot at a good score on a hole then they try but if they blow up they have no problem blowing up huge. So that guy that can birdie 3 or 4 holes in your league but shoots 96s. Do you think his scores in league represent his Cap or is he just playing for skins?

People cheat, we all know it, I just don't care. I will post my solo rounds that I play straight up, but if I'm solo and the course is wide open I'll probably play two balls and I can't post a score in that situation anyway.


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Harvmp28 said:
, but if I'm solo and the course is wide open I'll probably play two balls and I can't post a score in that situation anyway.


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But actually you probably can. All you would have to do is dedicate one ball as the primary round ball and count that one only regardless where and how its played. Any others you might play would of course not count and only be for the heck of it. Legal to do? probably not, but hurting anyone or anything? not imo.
 
I am also much more likely to use rounds alone as pure practice rounds now. The rule is dumb but at the same time I don't care very much.
 
rollin said:
But actually you probably can. All you would have to do is dedicate one ball as the primary round ball and count that one only regardless where and how its played. Any others you might play would of course not count and only be for the heck of it. Legal to do? probably not, but hurting anyone or anything? not imo.
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As far as rules go I believe once you hole out as long as you are not causing undo delay to the people behind you can stay on the green or hole all day practicing chips and what not.
 
rollin said:
But actually you probably can. All you would have to do is dedicate one ball as the primary round ball and count that one only regardless where and how its played. Any others you might play would of course not count and only be for the heck of it. Legal to do? probably not, but hurting anyone or anything? not imo.
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Your right I probably could count my score if I always hit my game ball first and finished it out on every green before finishing out the secondary ball, because who is it really hurting, but I still don't post those scores because I actually play a little more consistent than a standard round, the extra swings definitely put me in a groove that I think I play better in. So to try and keep my cap honest I only post rounds in which I play a solo ball. Whether I'm alone or not.


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