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Questions for Tour Van reps

SuperStroke
c.a.eleric said:
yesterday Ben mentioned that because of the angle at which the material is laid on the mandrel when a graphite shaft is made, there isn't really a seam for the PUREing analysis to use. I nodded like I understood what he said, but I didn't!


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PUREing uses a machine to analyze where the spine is and use that information to align the shaft. Where Spine align and then FLO uses bearing based rollers to find the spine and ultimately find the flat line oscillation. Unless OEMs are claiming there is no such a thing as a Spine anymore or that there isn't a precise location where FLO occurs, there will always be benefits to Spine align and FLO the shaft.
 
c.a.eleric said:
yesterday Ben mentioned that because of the angle at which the material is laid on the mandrel when a graphite shaft is made, there isn't really a seam for the PUREing analysis to use. I nodded like I understood what he said, but I didn't!


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I can show you or Don can show you if you make it into that event.
You will see the same thing repeated online all of the time, trust the people you think should be trusted.

If someone believes there is a difference, go for it.
If they dont, thats fine too.

Ben has no vested interest to make it up, and is certainly a reliable source, like Don, or the countless others that say the exact same thing.
 
Asking a OEM shaft company to endorse Spine alignment is tantamount to having Titlist admitting that compression does matter from player to player. Despite their adamant advertisement to say otherwise. Indeed. Believe what you wanna believe. "IF" feel is a measurable metric in balls and consequently enhance play, it's laughable to say that spine aligning and FLO which dramatically change feel, does absolutely NOTHING. Follow the money.
 
Plin said:
Asking a OEM shaft company to endorse Spine alignment is tantamount to having Titlist admitting that compression does matter from player to player. Despite their advertisement to say otherwise. Indeed. Believe what you wanna believe. Follow the money.
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Hmmmm. Not exactly. Shaft Companies make up a huge percentage of their revenue based on working with club fitters...And many offer this very service.

As I said, if someone believes it matters, have at it.
 
JB said:
Hmmmm. Not exactly. Shaft Companies make up a huge percentage of their revenue based on working with club fitters...And many offer this very service.

As I said, if someone believes it matters, have at it.
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That's very enlightening, which begs the question, why do club fitters do it at all, if OEMs are basically manufacturing at such tight tolerances that performance would be identical regardless of shaft orientation?
 
Plin said:
That's very enlightening, which begs the question, why do club fitters do it at all, if OEMs are basically manufacturing at such tight tolerances that performance would be identical regardless of shaft orientation?
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to be a little more on topic for the thread and get it back to what ben said, it wasn't as much about tolerances as it was about necessity/benefit for an average golfer with an average swing speed.

but to be less on topic, it begs the question why the best in the world, who live and die by accuracy and proximity to the hole and every little possible benefit they can derive might mean the difference between having a place to play or having to go get a day job, aren't doing it?
 
Plin said:
That's very enlightening, which begs the question, why do club fitters do it at all, if OEMs are basically manufacturing at such tight tolerances that performance would be identical regardless of shaft orientation?
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$$$$$$$$$$$
 
c.a.eleric said:
to be a little more on topic for the thread and get it back to what ben said, it wasn't as much about tolerances as it was about necessity/benefit for an average golfer with an average swing speed.

but to be less on topic, it begs the question why the best in the world, who live and die by accuracy and proximity to the hole and every little possible benefit they can derive might mean the difference between having a place to play or having to go get a day job, aren't doing it?
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There is a difference in not PUREing (which is a branded service) and not Spine align at all. I wouldn't be least bit surprised, they won't spend money on PUREing, but I am certain they spine align, EVERY TIME. If they don't, I would certainly love to hear the break down.

This is as much on topic as it can be, it's one thing to hear the insights, which I fully appreciate your effort and thank you providing us the information, but it's also another to take what was said and use as baseline standard for the industry without question.

If you hear a ball manufacturer touting Compression is just a number and it doesn't really matter, what would the conversation be now? Even if It's the industry standard it doesn't mean it's put in place for the benefit of you, rather than the benefit of economics.
 
Plin said:
There is a difference in not PUREing (which is a branded service) and not Spine align at all. I wouldn't be least bit surprised, they won't spend money on PUREing, but I am certain they spine align, EVERY TIME. If they don't, I would certainly love to hear the break down.

This is as much on topic as it can be, it's one thing to hear the insights, which I fully appreciate your effort and thank you providing us the information, but it's also another to take what was said and use as baseline standard for the industry without question.

If you hear a ball manufacturing touting Compression is just a number and it doesn't really matter, what would the conversation be now? Even if It's the industry standard it doesn't mean it's put in place for the benefit of you, rather than the benefit of economics.
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sorry bud, you're losing me here. i'm not sure what you're saying. i'm happy to try to elaborate on anything ben said if the conversation was more robust than what i've posted. i can say that we never discussed spine aligning. and i watched him build about a half dozen wedges yesterday, and i didn't see him do anything but make sure the shaft labels were in the right place relative to how he was installing the grips.

if we want to debate the merits of PUREing and spining/FLOing, that would make a good thread on its own.
 
Plin said:
Pretty sure that spine align for tour players and its cost are negligible.
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Just know what Golfsmith tried to charge me awhile back ($25) for my driver shaft. I just laughed. They must be making a killing on the average Joe that doesn't know any better though.
 
c.a.eleric said:
sorry bud, you're losing me here. i'm not sure what you're saying. i'm happy to try to elaborate on anything ben said if the conversation was more robust than what i've posted. i can say that we never discussed spine aligning. and i watched him build about a half dozen wedges yesterday, and i didn't see him do anything but make sure the shaft labels were in the right place relative to how he was installing the grips.

if we want to debate the merits of PUREing and spining/FLOing, that would make a good thread on its own.
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Indeed it would be. Let's never discuss the topic, due to unpopular demand. Let's throw out PUREing doesn't matter and have people back it up and call it a day without discussion because it's "off topic" Believe what you want to believe indeed, sorry for the wasted thread space.
 
Nate said:
Just know what Golfsmith tried to charge me awhile back ($25) for my driver shaft. I just laughed. They must be making a killing on the average Joe that doesn't know any better though.
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Pricing is ridiculous for how simple the process is if you have the equipment, however pricing is independent from its benefits.
 
Plin said:
Pricing is ridiculous for how simple the process is if you have the equipment, however pricing is independent from its benefits.
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And if the club is attached they want $50 per club. LOL.

All I know is what I read here and what I've heard directly from the mouths of the shaft OEM's and that is it's a waste of one's money. Agree or not, but I'll take my $300+ of puring a set of new clubs and spend it elsewhere.
 
Plin said:
Indeed it would be. Let's never discuss the topic, due to unpopular demand. Let's throw out PUREing doesn't matter and have people back it up and call it a day without discussion because it's "off topic" Believe what you want to believe indeed, sorry for the wasted thread space.
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you don't owe me any apologies at all! i'm just not qualified to add much, and i want to make sure that i stay true to what came out of ben's mouth.
 
Nate said:
And if the club is attached they want $50 per club. LOL.

All I know is what I read here and what I've heard directly from the mouths of the shaft OEM's and that is it's a waste of one's money. Agree or not, but I'll take my $300+ of puring a set of new clubs and spend it elsewhere.
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And I would agree with you, like I said, how much they want to charge for how simple the actual process is absurd, yet it does not speak to the benefits you would get. I guess no use in taking up more space if minds are made up. All I am saying is if you have seen it with your own eyes and felt the difference, the tone would be very different. Call me a skeptic, I don't just base my opinions on someone else's word, especially someone who has money on the line. (Not Ben but rather OEM shaft manufacturers.)
 
c.a.eleric said:
you don't owe me any apologies at all! i'm just not qualified to add much, and i want to make sure that i stay true to what came out of ben's mouth.
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There isn't anything Ben said that I wouldn't believe as true, just the merit of what's being discussed have come up many times before and the result has been the same, if we intend to educate each other, a dialog and discussion must happen.
 
Great recap and read CA. Thanks for taking the time to share an incredible inside experience.

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Plin said:
And I would agree with you, like I said, how much they want to charge for how simple the actual process is absurd, yet it does not speak to the benefits you would get. I guess no use in taking up more space if minds are made up. All I am saying is if you have seen it with your own eyes and felt the difference, the tone would be very different. Call me a skeptic, I don't just base my opinions on someone else's word, especially someone who has money on the line. (Not Ben but rather OEM shaft manufacturers.)
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Well, I guess if I wanted to try and take my handicap from a 2 to scratch then maybe $300+ would be worth it. But for the average Joe that just doesn't make sense. BTW, back in HS and college I did get a few driver shafts done and my distance, dispersion and handicap all stayed the same. I could tell nothing different about the shaft. Guess I should have gone to get my $$$ back! :D

I will go one step further and guess if you gave the average Joe purred shafts vs non purred shafts they wouldn't know which one was which without mustering up a guess for giggles.
 
c.a., thanks for the tour van stories and info. Great Stuff!


As to the off topic issue, my clubmaker doesn't let an iron out of his shop unless he spines/flo. Everyone has a different opinion. Cool.
 
Plin said:
That's very enlightening, which begs the question, why do club fitters do it at all, if OEMs are basically manufacturing at such tight tolerances that performance would be identical regardless of shaft orientation?
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Follow the money?
 
Plin said:
And I would agree with you, like I said, how much they want to charge for how simple the actual process is absurd, yet it does not speak to the benefits you would get. I guess no use in taking up more space if minds are made up. All I am saying is if you have seen it with your own eyes and felt the difference, the tone would be very different. Call me a skeptic, I don't just base my opinions on someone else's word, especially someone who has money on the line. (Not Ben but rather OEM shaft manufacturers.)
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I haven't done it and probably wouldn't drop the cash on it either. out of curiosity what impacts/improvements have you seen with getting your shafts pured, spined/flo'd?
 
emart2173 said:
I haven't done it and probably wouldn't drop the cash on it either. out of curiosity what impacts/improvements have you seen with getting your shafts pured, spined/flo'd?
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One benefit, I believe, is consistency within an iron set.

I think a similar benefit is with woods, hybrids -- as to performance. It's been a while since I've read about this subject. With better graphite quality, I've heard less of Pure and Spine/Flo with high quality OEM shafts.
 
Nate said:
I will go one step further and guess if you gave the average Joe purred shafts vs non purred shafts they wouldn't know which one was which without mustering up a guess for giggles.
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We did this. At a THP Event. On FlightScope.
And have said anybody that comes out to one, can test this very thing for themselves.
 
Awesome to hear a tour van guy's take. Sorry your thread got ate up with the other stuff.
 
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