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Questions for Tour Van reps

SuperStroke
McLovin

McLovin

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Albatross 2024 Club
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This video on the homepage gave us an inside look into the True Temper tour van and I found it fascinating!

Tonight I'm having an informal, non-THP non-media event dinner with a couple guys who do this for a major OEM. If I get the green light from them I'll update this original post to say which OEM. I have been assured that these guys are gearheads and love to talk about this stuff, so I'm planning on assaulting them with my questions!

It's going to be a very small group of people, maybe 2-3 guys in addition to the reps, so I'll have some good access. So what would you ask, THP? I'll do my best to 1) Get your questions in, and 2) Stay sober enough to remember the answers and post them in here!
 
I would love to know stuff like, how often pros really change out their clubs (ie driver, irons, wedges)? Or how often they regrip? I know this varies incredibly by player... but I have always wondered this. Also, what are the most overlooked and underlooked specs or things people should or shouldn't worry about in regards to their clubs/set up.

If they allow you to mention the OEM, what pro on that staff tinkered around the most with gear...

An lastly, what are some of their top stories from the tour!
 
What' the most unique requests they've ever gotten from a tour player?
 
I'd love to know if the tour players notice the little nuances like a half degree up or down on lie angle or if they adjust irons to be opened or closed?
 
Also, how often do staffers try or demo other OEM brand clubs?

I know they are under contract, but when something comes out and is generating a ton of buzz from a different brand, I know some guys HAVE TO try it!
 
2012BFT said:
Also, how often do staffers try or demo other OEM brand clubs?

I know they are under contract, but when something comes out and is generating a ton of buzz from a different brand, I know some guys HAVE TO try it!
Click to expand...

I actually have a similar question loaded. I was going to ask whether there is any equipment from other OEMs that they saw and thought, "man, I wish our guys had thought of that!" but I like your question too.


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c.a.eleric said:
I actually have a similar question loaded. I was going to ask whether there is any equipment from other OEMs that they saw and thought, "man, I wish our guys had thought of that!" but I like your question too.


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Click to expand...

Obviously I know there are contracts in place... but Phil still gamed an RBZ fw... or Jimmy Walker still put/puts an M1 fw into play... etc... So I know it happens!
 
Trout Bum said:
I'd love to know if the tour players notice the little nuances like a half degree up or down on lie angle or if they adjust irons to be opened or closed?
Click to expand...

Knowing one of the main Cleveland reps... he would always complain about certain players that were too picky. He told me a story about one player who wanted a 1/4* adjustment. They said it was virtually impossible and he threw the clubs down and threatened to leave the manufacturer for a company that could fulfill his request.
 
Something I have always found interesting are their thoughts on the top players and who is really genuine. They might not share that with you unless you are really close to them but I always loved their stories (especially about Phil)
 
2012BFT said:
I would love to know stuff like, how often pros really change out their clubs (ie driver, irons, wedges)? Or how often they regrip? I know this varies incredibly by player... but I have always wondered this. Also, what are the most overlooked and underlooked specs or things people should or shouldn't worry about in regards to their clubs/set up.

If they allow you to mention the OEM, what pro on that staff tinkered around the most with gear...

An lastly, what are some of their top stories from the tour!
Click to expand...

some guys regrip every week

not a lot of tinkering




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Trout Bum said:
I'd love to know if the tour players notice the little nuances like a half degree up or down on lie angle or if they adjust irons to be opened or closed?
Click to expand...
I was talking to a Bridgestone rep at a local demo day about this and he said they are all absolutely that picky. He said it's unreal to see how much "feel" the guys have and one thing you have to keep in mind is they're extremely fragile. What he meant by that is he said you can never let the player think it's his fault. It's always something wrong with the club because of how much psychology plays into their games and their confidence. He told a story about how a newer guy regripped Kuchars clubs before his warm up for a practice round at a tournament and he warmed up with the clubs and brought back the set and he said that something was wrong with the 8 and 5 iron. So they took the grips off of all of the clubs to compare. Same amount of tape was used for all the clubs but the way the tape folded on the 8 and 5 were different from every other club. It's mind boggling to think about that they could feel those differences.
 
That's incredible that those nuances make a diference in their game mentally, intuition is a powerful tool.
 
a few highlights from dinner last night.

only one of the tour van guys came, the other wanted to stay in his hotel room and crush a pizza by himself haha!

the gentleman who let me assault him with questions was ben schomin, pro tour services manager for cobra. we spent some time in the van yesterday watching him do his thing while reps from several companies were in and out, as well as some of the early bird staffers. he was stamping wedges for jesper parnevik and telling me stories of the inside jokes behind the stamping. then he was building, machining and grinding new wedges for rickie fowler. it was AMAZING to hear him talk about how he gets the weighting just right, and how he grinds off certain parts of the head to make it visually look the rickie wants it to. no molds, just a few notes and a lot of one-on-one sessions and ben has it dialed in his mind's eye. pretty amazing. he was also gushing over the space port in the ltd because it made hot-melting so much easier.

reps from true temper, aldila, fourteen golf, lamkin, mitsubishi rayon, and kbs all came in the van while we were hanging out. everybody is there to help each other out. it's obviously about networking, but it's also about informing the builders. while we were in there, a web.com player called ben and said he was struggling with his equipment. ben talked to him about what he wasn't liking and what he wanted to change, then he started pulling different shafts to make something for him. ben leans on the knowledge of the shaft reps to help make those kind of changes.

his days are long. start at 7am, finishing around 8pm, on your feet all day holed up in the van. when he's not building, he has other tour-related responsibilities. he obviously loves his job, but i could never do it. there is no break, no let-up, just constant motion.

i asked him about other oem gear and whether they're doing anything he kinda wishes cobra had thought of first. he said no, cobra is right where they want to be making exactly what they want to be making. he said fea, cad and 3d printing have revolutionized product development. and with product development, he said these days engineers start with sound design, then go to aesthetics, then go to physics. he said cobra was putting out some great products (he specifically mentioned the lv4) that were longer and more forgiving than anything out there, but nobody was buying them because the sound was bad. this has obviously been discussed ad nauseum, but to hear that the engineers put the physics so far down the list was very interesting.

he said PUREing isn't necessary unless you have a very high swing speed, and even then he sees no reason to do it. he mentioned true temper as having the best qc and tightest tolerances of all of the shaft companies. i won't say who he said has the worst, but i have heard it about this company before.

we didn't talk much about guys tinkering. and he said it's pretty rare that they will change much gear for a particular course unless it's a major.

he spoke very highly of all the staffers, even poulter (former staffer). he said he always got along very well with poulter, and his image in the media isn't who he is. he said he worked with john daly for awhile as well, and had very nice things to say about him.

he was pretty excited about the new baffler. i got to see rickie's baffler 5w, and it's beautiful. he said he built a few different versions first, and rickie gave him feedback along the way.

along the way he shared some things that were very candid that will stay at dinner. after spending time watching guys on the range, spending time talking with reps in the van and on the putting green, my biggest takeaway is that it's not a life i am at all interested in. so much travel, and such a grind.

if you made it this far, thanks for reading!
 
c.a.eleric said:
a few highlights from dinner last night.

only one of the tour van guys came, the other wanted to stay in his hotel room and crush a pizza by himself haha!

the gentleman who let me assault him with questions was ben schomin, pro tour services manager for cobra. we spent some time in the van yesterday watching him do his thing while reps from several companies were in and out, as well as some of the early bird staffers. he was stamping wedges for jesper parnevik and telling me stories of the inside jokes behind the stamping. then he was building, machining and grinding new wedges for rickie fowler. it was AMAZING to hear him talk about how he gets the weighting just right, and how he grinds off certain parts of the head to make it visually look the rickie wants it to. no molds, just a few notes and a lot of one-on-one sessions and ben has it dialed in his mind's eye. pretty amazing. he was also gushing over the space port in the ltd because it made hot-melting so much easier.

reps from true temper, aldila, fourteen golf, lamkin, mitsubishi rayon, and kbs all came in the van while we were hanging out. everybody is there to help each other out. it's obviously about networking, but it's also about informing the builders. while we were in there, a web.com player called ben and said he was struggling with his equipment. ben talked to him about what he wasn't liking and what he wanted to change, then he started pulling different shafts to make something for him. ben leans on the knowledge of the shaft reps to help make those kind of changes.

his days are long. start at 7am, finishing around 8pm, on your feet all day holed up in the van. when he's not building, he has other tour-related responsibilities. he obviously loves his job, but i could never do it. there is no break, no let-up, just constant motion.

i asked him about other oem gear and whether they're doing anything he kinda wishes cobra had thought of first. he said no, cobra is right where they want to be making exactly what they want to be making. he said fea, cad and 3d printing have revolutionized product development. and with product development, he said these days engineers start with sound design, then go to aesthetics, then go to physics. he said cobra was putting out some great products (he specifically mentioned the lv4) that were longer and more forgiving than anything out there, but nobody was buying them because the sound was bad. this has obviously been discussed ad nauseum, but to hear that the engineers put the physics so far down the list was very interesting.

he said PUREing isn't necessary unless you have a very high swing speed, and even then he sees no reason to do it. he mentioned true temper as having the best qc and tightest tolerances of all of the shaft companies. i won't say who he said has the worst, but i have heard it about this company before.

we didn't talk much about guys tinkering. and he said it's pretty rare that they will change much gear for a particular course unless it's a major.

he spoke very highly of all the staffers, even poulter (former staffer). he said he always got along very well with poulter, and his image in the media isn't who he is. he said he worked with john daly for awhile as well, and had very nice things to say about him.

he was pretty excited about the new baffler. i got to see rickie's baffler 5w, and it's beautiful. he said he built a few different versions first, and rickie gave him feedback along the way.

along the way he shared some things that were very candid that will stay at dinner. after spending time watching guys on the range, spending time talking with reps in the van and on the putting green, my biggest takeaway is that it's not a life i am at all interested in. so much travel, and such a grind.

if you made it this far, thanks for reading!
Click to expand...

Awesome stuff, C. A! Sounds like quite a memorable experience.

Any pics?
 
IMO: Sorry I have to disagree with part of his statement that puring or spining is not needed. Setting the spine is very important for Flo and shaft flex consistency from iron to iron.

Puring places the spine S1 at 9 o clock (not the best position) making the shaft play the stiffest profile...or dead feel with less distance. if you need S1 at 9 o clock then perhaps you need a stiffer shaft, HS, or a tipped shaft. Randomly gluing in shafts to any orientation is not the best IMO. I did like the rest of the read...
 
Last edited:
Amazing stuff C.A. Always love the behind the scenes stuff. Those guys and girls deserve so much credit. Long days, helping make the best players, play their best. Very cool.

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ProZoneGolf said:
Sorry I have to disagree with his statement that puring or spining is not needed. Setting the spine is very important for Flo and shaft flex consistency from iron to iron.
Click to expand...

what's interesting is that he is now the second person "in the know" who has stated this about PUREing, the other being don from true temper at last year's handcrafted experience. fwiw anything my fitter builds for me gets PUREd because that's what he recommends and honestly i don't see the harm in it.
 
Great info man, it was fun to read. I love the behind the scenes stuff.
 
Great read c.a.! Good stuff. Having access to a Tour Van for even a day would be fun. Just to be a fly on the wall and watch, I think would be fun.
 
c.a.eleric said:
what's interesting is that he is now the second person "in the know" who has stated this about PUREing, the other being don from true temper at last year's handcrafted experience. fwiw anything my fitter builds for me gets PUREd because that's what he recommends and honestly i don't see the harm in it.
Click to expand...

There is no harm in it, but I have yet to find a person in the industry shaft or otherwise that does not directly profit from the service say otherwise. Was with a shaft company yesterday (Matrix) and will be with 3 others this week and we have gone over the data. Almost every tour van person says the same thing and these are players that are far more precise than any amateur...
 
JB said:
There is no harm in it, but I have yet to find a person in the industry shaft or otherwise that does not directly profit from the service say otherwise. Was with a shaft company yesterday (Matrix) and will be with 3 others this week and we have gone over the data. Almost every tour van person says the same thing and these are players that are far more precise than any amateur...
Click to expand...

yesterday Ben mentioned that because of the angle at which the material is laid on the mandrel when a graphite shaft is made, there isn't really a seam for the PUREing analysis to use. I nodded like I understood what he said, but I didn't!


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IMHO, PUREing as a branded service is expensive ($80/club) and probably unnecessary for the average player to notice. However a FLO'd and spined aligned shaft will play more solid than any shaft with a random orientation. I get why shaft companies would deem them unnecessary, but yet I'm certain that tour players are all playing spine aligned shafts. If you've seen what a shaft does without FLO and with, there is no argument you would elect NOT to have them spined and FLO'd if you could. Once I've played a spined shaft in my club, I absolutely won't go back to a randomly oriented shaft again. Not to mention if you have access to the equipment, it takes only about 5 minutes per shaft prior to install.
 
Very interesting read C.A.
Thanks for sharing !
 
Thanks for sharing dude. Awesome info.
 
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