The Classroom - What is Toe Hang?

I was thinking ( dangerous know). With Plumbers Necks, does the length of neck have any bearing on the effects to the toe hand?

If you're talking the length of the offset part, I would think that would decrease the toe hang, assuming the offset stays the same. That said, this is based on a sketch I drew 30 minutes after I woke up, so I could be completely wrong.
 
I was thinking ( dangerous know). With Plumbers Necks, does the length of neck have any bearing on the effects to the toe hand?
Yep, it will effect the toe hang, neck length matters as much as offset and positioning.
 
I spent some time thinking about and visualizing the biomechanics of the putter swing and the fact that the stroke is skewed to gravity. The putter stroke is a pendulum motion out of plane with the eyes and fighting gravity. Suffice it to say, I now understand why people say there has to be an arc. I was trying to putt SBST. To have a SBST stroke relative to ball path, the body has to make dynamic adjustments -- probably not a good idea for the precision needed in putting. In the physics of all that, some toe hang makes a lot of sense to me, for the first time. This will help me, because the idea that the putter face opens and closes was something I wanted to fight. But I can now see that if I keep my hands and wrists quiet and rotate from the shoulders, that will take care of itself. Bingo. My message to myself is: Stop fighting the stroke and start putting. I have no doubt this is all old hat to most, but it is something I needed to work out. I am a person who needs to understand why, not just what. So thank you Jman, THP, and all the resulting discussion. You have likely helped me take a step forward in my puttiing, assuming I can put knowledge into action.
 
I wonder what the percentage of people know what would work best for their stroke. If people are buying based on comfort instead of what works they'll never be good putters. As important as putting is, I would think people would want that dialed in

I think very little. With putting being such an important part of the game. Why isn't there more out there on proper fitting of a putter? Yes companies have made great strides with labeling their putters for stroke.
Ping and Odyssey come to mind. But With such a big push on getting properly fit for "clubs" (non-putters), why isn't their the same for putters.

Let's say your Avg 18hole score is 90 but have 36 putts. More than 1/3 if your strokes are with the putter. Why such a big disconnect between retailers and putter fitting?
 
Is there a way to subscribe to the Classroom? :D
 
I think very little. With putting being such an important part of the game. Why isn't there more out there on proper fitting of a putter? Yes companies have made great strides with labeling their putters for stroke.
Ping and Odyssey come to mind. But With such a big push on getting properly fit for "clubs" (non-putters), why isn't their the same for putters.

Let's say your Avg 18hole score is 90 but have 36 putts. More than 1/3 if your strokes are with the putter. Why such a big disconnect between retailers and putter fitting?

I can really only speculate, but I think there's still a lot of momentum behind the idea that a putter is about look and feel rather than matching the club to the stroke. That is, there's the idea that even if you were told you have a stroke that best suits a face-balanced mallet, you wouldn't feel as confident using it as you would hitting a heel-shafted blade with lots of toe-hang, because that's what you're confident with.

In addition, as it was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, having a putter that matches your stroke doesn't mean you can suddenly read greens or develop a good sense of pace. It just means you're more likely to hit putts on intended line. I think that's much the same as getting irons fit to your swing doesn't mean you will suddenly learn how to shape shot or account for the ball being above or below your feet in terms of your alignment. But with that being said, I wouldn't say that's a valid excuse for not getting your irons fitted, so I can't say, "But I still putt like dookie" is an excuse to not get a putter fitted as well in whatever form or fashion you're able.
 
James, thank you for an excellent educational presentation. To tell you how good it was--even I could understand it.

To the THP folks, thank you for this educational series. I hope to be a sponge to soak things up.
 
James, thank you for an excellent educational presentation. To tell you how good it was--even I could understand it.

To the THP folks, thank you for this educational series. I hope to be a sponge to soak things up.

That is the goal dude. Simple, to the point, and easy to digest.

We are damn proud of this and the potential it has for not just the THP forum, but beyond.
 
james, i finally read the article and it's a great job of dumbing it down to a level i can understand it. i'd love to see a part deux for this that goes into detail on what neck position and neck bends do to affect the weighting.
 
Good article. There are other options from these, though... Such as heel balanced (edel torque and odyssey backstrike), centered (p&si), reverse face balanced.... All have a little different feel and effect on the stroke.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Seems like there is a need that could be addressed here by someone with the resources and an entrepreneur spirit. I'm seeing a lot of comments about not having access to a putter fitting.

So how would one gain the knowledge of how to become a putter fitter?

What equipment would need to be acquired?

Could it be a mobile business to make it more accessible?

Could sponsorships be realized through equipment manufacturers?

Just my entrepreneurial mind seeing a need and wanting to fill it.

Any thoughts guys?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 
Excellent read! Definitely looking forward to future THP Classroom articles.
 
Such a great first lesson James, i didnt realize there were so many different toe hang versions. I have a slight arc in my putting stroke but do prefer the odyssey no1 version putters, but like you said no everything works for every one.

Im looking forward to reading a lot more lessons. Thank you doing this THP.
 
Glad to see there was so much interest in this classroom topic. Putter fitting and putter design is a great topic.
 
So how would one gain the knowledge of how to become a putter fitter?

What equipment would need to be acquired?

Could it be a mobile business to make it more accessible?

Could sponsorships be realized through equipment manufacturers?

Just my entrepreneurial mind seeing a need and wanting to fill it.

Any thoughts guys?

You would become a putter fitter just like any other fitter. To be good it requires a great deal of knowledge about putter design, the impact of putter design on the stroke, and the stroke itself. Sure, mobile businesses can make it more accessible. There are tools like the SAM Puttlab that make fitting capable of being mobile. I doubt manufacturers would be very supportive. What I have seen with putter manufacturers is that they want to fit you to their putters and not fit a putter to you.
 
In addition, as it was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, having a putter that matches your stroke doesn't mean you can suddenly read greens or develop a good sense of pace. It just means you're more likely to hit putts on intended line. .


I think this is the biggest issue with people and putters. The right putter enables you to hit your line and until you can do that consistently you will never learn to read greens or have good distance control.
 
Yep, it will effect the toe hang, neck length matters as much as offset and positioning.


I would agree that length of neck, bend of neck, lie angle, and weighting impact toe hang. Offset is really more about influencing the rate of rotation and not toe hang. Why do you think offset influences toe hang? In general; and I say in general because you can play with weight distribution, if you were to draw a line down the shaft and through the head of the putter the closer the line intersects the center (toe to heel) the more face balanced it will be. Offset maintains that relationship, but moves the shaft position from face to flange.
 
You may want to try multi quote to make it easier and respond to multiple posts.
 
Here is a couple of my Toe Hangers:

f3d9efb456e6a23318e9e23def040f82.jpg


I know that TM is 30* Toe Hang and I'm not sure what the Wilson is. I'm struggling with the Wilson right now as I'm not use to the Degree of toe hang. I played the TM all of last year. Had a heck of a time finding the TM.

They both have slanted necks.
6a91856782e58ede300fc6408ba6d9de.jpg


Bettinardi could make me one to match my SAM putt test, but it was big $$.
 
239c0d7a1a49ca003bb19c60f5fca53f.jpg


Yo Teach! Can you tell me what this is in relation to toe hang?
 
I'm not sure what that means dude....care to explain....I would call that 8 o'clock
 
I'm not sure what that means dude....care to explain....I would call that 8 o'clock

It took me a while to figure out why people quoted toe hang at 3:00 - 6:00. Look at it from the perspective of looking at it from the grip end. 3:00, meaning the face is parallel to the ground, would be face balanced and 6:00 would be full toe hang. 4:30 or 1/2 is considered moderate toe hang and is supposed to work best with a slight arc putting stroke.
 
It took me a while to figure out why people quoted toe hang at 3:00 - 6:00. Look at it from the perspective of looking at it from the grip end. 3:00, meaning the face is parallel to the ground, would be face balanced and 6:00 would be full toe hang. 4:30 or 1/2 is considered moderate toe hang and is supposed to work best with a slight arc putting stroke.
Ahh thanks. I'm digging this putter and looking at making a purchase soon from the garage.
 
Back
Top