When does the ball matter?

When people say good they generally mean urethane.

I would imagine not a single LPGA player uses a surlyn ball and their swing speeds are in line with a lot of slower swinging amateurs. I could be wrong about no one using one but I doubt any of them do.

that's sort of what I mean. And not only might softer covers and higher spin hurt a given amateur but also durability and cost must be weighed to. Higher spin is far from everyone's best friend and may even be an enemy. I think too many mid and higher cappers play these "good" balls and are hurting themselves more than helping.
 
that's sort of what I mean. And not only might softer covers and higher spin hurt a given amateur but also durability and cost must be weighed to. Higher spin is far from everyone's best friend and may even be an enemy. I think too many mid and higher cappers play these "good" balls and are hurting themselves more than helping.
Don't agree at all. The lower spin off the tee is very marginal, like 200-500 rmp of side spin but lose 3000k rmp on wedges. A low spin ball isn't going to help anyone if they have no face control and start the ball 25 yards offline. If you want to have a debate that someone who loses 5 plus balls a round is better off not spending $4+ a ball I can buy that but saying the performance is not better even for terrible golfers is way off.

I could totally be wrong about all that because I really haven't spent all that long researching what ball is going to be best for a 30 handicapper. That being said for a long time I played surlyn and occasionally play a noodle when I run out of good balls but haven't gotten a good deal and bought good ones in bulk.
 
Nothing wrong with the Supersofts at all.

I usually switch between the SuperSofts, Srixon Q Stars, and Chrome Softs throughout the season. Chrome Softs if playing a course where I am less prone to have to search for balls.

Honestly though, there are a lot of great mid-range options for balls out there. You don't need to spend $50 a dozen to find a ball that better suits your game.
 
Don't agree at all. The lower spin off the tee is very marginal, like 200-500 rmp of side spin but lose 3000k rmp on wedges. A low spin ball isn't going to help anyone if they have no face control and start the ball 25 yards offline. If you want to have a debate that someone who loses 5 plus balls a round is better off not spending $4+ a ball I can buy that but saying the performance is not better even for terrible golfers is way off.

I could totally be wrong about all that because I really haven't spent all that long researching what ball is going to be best for a 30 handicapper. That being said for a long time I played surlyn and occasionally play a noodle when I run out of good balls but haven't gotten a good deal and bought good ones in bulk.

Sorry up front for long explanation here.

I have (on a few occasions) (some I posted about on THP) personally experimented with different balls side by side via a long process through several rounds to collectively determine pros and cons between two balls for my game. On each experiment I alternated between two balls every other hole through the several rounds. I did this for a period of time purposely so I could minimize my inconsistencies skewing the results and also get use to each ball and give it the fair chance. My two most recent experiments were with e6 vs the e5 and on another (just last season) experiment the e6 vs the b330rx.

Firstly (and remember this was not just a round but quite a few and alternating every other hole and through many shot scenarios) that's a lot of alternating and I will tell you for certain there is a very noticeable difference in dispersion with a ball that spins less off the tee and mid range and also irons in general. The mishits via over drawn, over faded shots (within reason of course) added up (collectively through many shots) to be much less damaging and more stroke saving for my game at the current times with the e6.

As I'm sure you and many people know, if you play golf long enough (regardless how good one might be) after many years and so many uncountable amount of strikes you do become use to feeling your swing and shots and can almost know where the ball is heading and its flight path right from contact. Let me say that very similar shots that would stay closer to the fairway or just in bounds of wood/water, closer to the greens or on the edge instaed of just off etc,, with the e6 yet very similar shots offered a different (not quite as good dispersion wise) result many times with the other balls. It was collectively enough times where it mattered and saved strokes per round.

When comparing the 330 I was also playing pretty good (relatively speaking for me) golf and still I saw just enough help from the e6 vs the 330rx in those areas of concern. However , what I did not gain (at the time) was any greenside benefit. My best shots approach and short green shots behaved very similar with either ball. So very many my good shots through the several rounds checked up very similarly and even on the rare times I minimally rolled a few back did it with both balls the same. I kept careful notice and paid extra attention of this because I wanted to see if playing the "better" ball was going to prove to be any more benefit or not. In the end I determined that (at the time) I still had more to gain and benefit towards my scores from the e6 and its ability to help me (for what it does) than vs what I would gain from the 330rx on the greens. My technique for stopping power and greenside spin was not at a place where the benefits that the 330rx could potentially offer me was useful. I was doing the same with either ball on the greens for me and my play.

So imo and from my experience purposely and thoroughly experimenting I disagree with you. It is not "way off". The "better" ball is not always better. The very same performance or characteristics one may benefit from with a better ball may be the very same things that hurts someone else and not just marginally so. There also can be more to gain and benefit from via a different and even less performance ball with different characteristics for one player vs another.

You being a 5cap would probably find little help tee through and towards the green because your most probably very consistent anyway and yet you would also probably find a big benefit from a higher performance ball as you approach the greens and play them. But everything a bout a 5 cap and his needs and what he can benefit from is so different from me at 15 or anothers at 25. Heck, even two 5 cappers may have different needs and gain different benefits from different balls for their own games and play.
 
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I honestly don't really see much of a difference no matter which ball I use. Do I like a softer ball, yes. But I don't think a more expensive ball will change someone's score so tremendously that it's worth spending large sums of money on them...especially on the amateur level. I mostly play the Precept Laddie because it's cheap and gets the job done. Of course it's fun to try all sorts of balls and I'll do it every once in a while. But I really don't notice much of a difference.


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Sorry up front for long explanation here.

I have (on a few occasions) (some I posted about on THP) personally experimented with different balls side by side via a long process through several rounds to collectively determine pros and cons between two balls for my game. On each experiment I alternated between two balls every other hole through the several rounds. I did this for a period of time purposely so I could minimize my inconsistencies skewing the results and also get use to each ball and give it the fair chance. My two most recent experiments were with e6 vs the e5 and on another (just last season) experiment the e6 vs the b330rx.

Firstly (and remember this was not just a round but quite a few and alternating every other hole and through many shot scenarios) that's a lot of alternating and I will tell you for certain there is a very noticeable difference in dispersion with a ball that spins less off the tee and mid range and also irons in general. The mishits via over drawn, over faded shots (within reason of course) added up (collectively through many shots) to be much less damaging and more stroke saving for my game at the current times with the e6.

As I'm sure you and many people know, if you play golf long enough (regardless how good one might be) after many years and so many uncountable amount of strikes you do become use to feeling your swing and shots and can almost know where the ball is heading and its flight path right from contact. Let me say that very similar shots that would stay closer to the fairway or just in bounds of wood/water, closer to the greens or on the edge instaed of just off etc,, with the e6 yet very similar shots offered a different (not quite as good dispersion wise) result many times with the other balls. It was collectively enough times where it mattered and saved strokes per round.

When comparing the 330 I was also playing pretty good (relatively speaking for me) golf and still I saw just enough help from the e6 vs the 330rx in those areas of concern. However , what I did not gain (at the time) was any greenside benefit. My best shots approach and short green shots behaved very similar with either ball. So very many my good shots through the several rounds checked up very similarly and even on the rare times I minimally rolled a few back did it with both balls the same. I kept careful notice and paid extra attention of this because I wanted to see if playing the "better" ball was going to prove to be any more benefit or not. In the end I determined that (at the time) I still had more to gain and benefit towards my scores from the e6 and its ability to help me (for what it does) than vs what I would gain from the 330rx on the greens. My technique for stopping power and greenside spin was not at a place where the benefits that the 330rx could potentially offer me was useful. I was doing the same with either ball on the greens for me and my play.

So imo and from my experience purposely and thoroughly experimenting I disagree with you. It is not "way off". The "better" ball is not always better. The very same performance or characteristics one may benefit from with a better ball may be the very same things that hurts someone else and not just marginally so. There also can be more to gain and benefit from via a different and even less performance ball with different characteristics for one player vs another.

You being a 5cap would probably find little help tee through and towards the green because your most probably very consistent anyway and yet you would also probably find a big benefit from a higher performance ball as you approach the greens and play them. But everything a bout a 5 cap and his needs and what he can benefit from is so different from me at 15 or anothers at 25. Heck, even two 5 cappers may have different needs and gain different benefits from different balls for their own games and play.
Well thought out post and testing. Thank you, gives me something to think about instead of blanket statement of urethane > surlyn
 
In general I think its safe to say the old saying that its always going to be "more the Indian than his arrows" in the end. One still has to execute golf shots. Nothing imo is ever a life saver or a magic potion. Even though I have bragged about the e6 in other posts and how it has (to this point in time) helped me and at first even found it a happy surprise to me that it helped. But I still understand there is no magic with anything and we still need to execute golf shot regardless or nothing else matters. Its just that its a nice little benefit to have the correct things that help us the most when we do execute.
 
Totally agree. A good ball assuming you aren't actually playing with an ancient ball probably is only worth .5 strokes a round at the very very most.
 
When you start striking the ball solid from 100 yards out at least half the time.

The better balls will help you hold the greens because when struck well they will spin more, instead of rolling off the other side of the green. Now at this point, that doesn't mean you need a $40 ball, but you don't want a rock. Spin rate does not always correlate to ball price either. Now if you are at or beyond this point and price isn't a big deal, you will benefit even more from a Pro V1 class ball. Why? A better ball will still hold the green on slight mishits when a lesser ball may roll off the green.

There is a corollary to this.

If you are one of the freaks who have a chipping game far ahead of the rest of your game, you'll want a better high spin rate ball too. You'll chip a lot more balls inside that 5 foot circle.
 
Well...the Bridgestone online fitting recommends an E6 for me. I'll give them a shot and go from there.
 
Well...the Bridgestone online fitting recommends an E6 for me. I'll give them a shot and go from there.


I see them on Amazon for about $23/dozen.
 
When you start striking the ball solid from 100 yards out at least half the time.

The better balls will help you hold the greens because when struck well they will spin more, instead of rolling off the other side of the green. Now at this point, that doesn't mean you need a $40 ball, but you don't want a rock. Spin rate does not always correlate to ball price either. Now if you are at or beyond this point and price isn't a big deal, you will benefit even more from a Pro V1 class ball. Why? A better ball will still hold the green on slight mishits when a lesser ball may roll off the green.

There is a corollary to this.

If you are one of the freaks who have a chipping game far ahead of the rest of your game, you'll want a better high spin rate ball too. You'll chip a lot more balls inside that 5 foot circle.

This is still going to have much more to do with ones technique. Some people can generate very good greens spin but most people cant. Someone who can, will spin just about any ball. That being said, they will benefit more from a ball that grabs better. They basically will be more able to gain something from what a better gripping ball can offer them. But such as in my case during my comparison trial period many people will not gain that same benefit because they are not themselves more dominating with their technique for being able to spin the ball quite enough to see the gained benefit. This is imo why in my 330rx vs e6 experiment neither ball showed me much difference when judging my better shots on the greens. Very many of my better shots checked and stayed close (within a few feet) to the pitch marks just the same with either ball. The few rare times a ball actually backed up for me was also done with either ball equally and in fact the biggest back up I had during that time was with the e6. Bottom line is that "my" swing technique for generating great stopping power is not at any level which can gain any true benefit from what the better ball had to offer me at least not in comparison with an e6 nor at that time. Perhaps some other ball would have proven a much greater difference or perhaps if my technique changes enough this year vs last year. Remains to be seen

And as for about being able to be in 5feet. Many people who don't generate the good spin stopping power get quite use to playing without much of it. And many very good shorter game players are in this category and can often get within 5feet without it. One becomes accustomed to roll out and even uses it when making their shots. Striking solid play from 100 does not have to mean that player is one who will always benefit from the so called "better" ball.

On another note, many of the so called "rocks" are actually softer (or mushier) core balls. The prov's and B330's are harder core balls than the e6 or other cheaper balls. The covers are softer but the cores are harder. A cheaper and more mushy ball may actually help soften the landing blow on a harder green where the harder core ball may actually hit with more energy and bounce more. If one doesn't posses that better technique to spin the ball too well, they may find the mushy ball even with the harder shell will land and hold very similar to the better ball. They simply just don't gain much from what the better ball has to offer. I think the general logic that most anyone will always gain from a so called "better" ball is misguided. Imo a "better" ball is only whatever ball works better for that person for any and all reasons via his entire rounds of golf and from everywhere on the course for that persons swing and play.
 
Totally agree. A good ball assuming you aren't actually playing with an ancient ball probably is only worth .5 strokes a round at the very very most.

I think its very hard to put a stroke value on it. 1/2 stroke could be all but doeant have to be all. it could be more.
Lets say if one was shooting a 95 and there are several times (like in my case via my trials) where the e6 helped me stay just in the fairwy vs a few yards into the rough from the tee. Or lets say with an approach helped me stay just off the green vs in the bunker or down the hillside. Or perhaps a couple times in the woods vs just in bounds. Lets say through the course of a 95 stroke round that these things happened to (me) or the mid and higher capper even just 5 or 6 times. Just being a little more favorable for 5 or 6 times. Would they all mean 5 or 6 strokes difference? No. But they could mean saving a few. Perhaps 2 or 3. Who knows?

Now of course I am just plugging in numbers here but when I said I did still have more to gain by not switching to the higher end ball that is what I meant. A miracle? no. But enough to make things a tad more favorable for me just enough times to still make a possible difference. The more overall strokes one takes, the more opportunities one then has for a ball that works better for him to then affect his results. And out of those 5 or 6 more favorable results, it translates the 95 to perhaps becomes a 93. or an otherwise 91 becomes an 89. The more inconsistent and erratic one is, the more strokes he takes and the more help he can get out of a ball that moves less. Just gets x amount more favorable results vs worse ones which may then lead to better next shot scenarios. Over the course of a 95 stroke round it may lead to more than just 1/2 stroke difference. But again that's very hard to say. Its imo much like the gains one might see form using more forgiving and proper fit clubs. Nothing is a miracle. But a little favoritism here and there does make a difference that can be enough to be registered.
 
Sorry up front for long explanation here.

I have (on a few occasions) (some I posted about on THP) personally experimented with different balls side by side via a long process through several rounds to collectively determine pros and cons between two balls for my game. On each experiment I alternated between two balls every other hole through the several rounds. I did this for a period of time purposely so I could minimize my inconsistencies skewing the results and also get use to each ball and give it the fair chance. My two most recent experiments were with e6 vs the e5 and on another (just last season) experiment the e6 vs the b330rx.

Rollin, you compared three balls with similar wedge spin rates (See http://www.golfdigest.com/story/hotlist2010_golfballs_spinchart). So you really didn't test anything that would be relevant to this discussion. If you want to see where your game is in regard to balls with different spin rates, you'll need to redo your experiment with balls that have spin rate differences of 2-3,000 RPM, not a few hundred RPM.
 
As a high capper, I personally have not noticed a marked difference in my game when using a higher quality ball versus a lower quality ball.

I have not gotten to the point where I do (or even can) evaluate balls for specific attributes, though. I usually just read the reviews and buy an all-around kind of ball for the best price I can find. Played Precept Laddie balls last season, and really couldn't tell you the difference between one of them, a ProV-1 I found, or a Callaway Hex I found.

Currently I pay whatever ball I grab out of my bag, from the motley assortment therein.
 
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Rollin, you compared three balls with similar wedge spin rates (See http://www.golfdigest.com/story/hotlist2010_golfballs_spinchart). So you really didn't test anything that would be relevant to this discussion. If you want to see where your game is in regard to balls with different spin rates, you'll need to redo your experiment with balls that have spin rate differences of 2-3,000 RPM, not a few hundred RPM.

According to your chart the e6 vs the 330rx is 1200 rpm and that is not at all nothing. The e5 is only a few hundred. But that said, the topic of a "better" ball is not just spin but also softer covers and different core material and designs which also what assists in creating better greens gripping and stopping power and also why at different price ranges. So imo comparing an e series (a more budget friendly ball) vs a 330 series (more expensive and higher performance players ball) is imo a very good comparison when I wanted to determine if I was able to gain form the higher performance ball.

By your logic, if spin was the only factor which places a ball in a companies premier line than the e5 (which according to your chart has minor spin diference vs the 330rx) would be bridgestones premier ball. But its not and the 330 series is their premier line. Different cores and covers is the separator. The 330 series is suppose to behave better on the greens and be more of the players balls and is why its their most expensive series. Even the rx version is still the 330 series and is not in quite the same company as the more budget friendly and perhaps bogey golfer oriented e series. So comparing any e series ball to any 330 series ball is imo a real good comparison when one is trying to determine if a so called "better" or players type ball can offer an advantage to that person and his swing.
 
The ball matters, but in a very subjective way. On my previous fourm many of the low handicapers wouls say as soon as you hit single digits you needed to move to a tour ball.....not entirely the case. I have an uncle, now in his mid-late 60's, can still drive it up to 300 yds and played top level amateur golf in the 60's and 70's and to me he's my golfing hereo.

Anyway, he always played tour balls, most recently the almost mandatory Pro V1 and Srixon z star. He dropped these and now plays Srixon soft feel or "the ones in the green box" as he calls them). He prefers these to the 3-4 piece tour balls as they give him more "all round" performance. His wife likes them because they cost less, which means she can buy more shoes!
Anyway the short of it is, as many have said, pick the ball that fits your needs not the one that fits the ego :curl-lip:
 
The ball matters, but in a very subjective way. On my previous fourm many of the low handicapers wouls say as soon as you hit single digits you needed to move to a tour ball.....not entirely the case. I have an uncle, now in his mid-late 60's, can still drive it up to 300 yds and played top level amateur golf in the 60's and 70's and to me he's my golfing hereo.

Anyway, he always played tour balls, most recently the almost mandatory Pro V1 and Srixon z star. He dropped these and now plays Srixon soft feel or "the ones in the green box" as he calls them). He prefers these to the 3-4 piece tour balls as they give him more "all round" performance. His wife likes them because they cost less, which means she can buy more shoes!
Anyway the short of it is, as many have said, pick the ball that fits your needs not the one that fits the ego :curl-lip:

good post. Its not really about what ball is better or best but its about what ball is better/best for that persons game. Often the very same characteristics that make a ball a so called "premier" ball which can help a given player can be what actually hurts a different given player. I've seen many people insist how great playing a pro-v is and yet at the same time I am watching them bounce and roll balls across the greens all day with their chipping and short pitching and also not seeing them stick anything better than me when they do hit a green with an approach. But yet they insist its the best ball for them.....until they cry as they send them into water and woods. Not even to ever realize a different ball may actually even save them from that water and woods on an occasion here and there. But still they just have to play the pro-v regardless. But hey, whatever makes one happy I suppose.
 
For me, it matters most around the greens, especially if they are slick. If you are playing a course with fast/undulating greens you could be in for a really long day if you aren't able to at least get a little bit of check around the greens.

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Undulating greens are all about where you land it to get it to stop. Nothing is going to stop if you land on a big downhill slope on a 10+ stimp green.
 
Undulating greens are all about where you land it to get it to stop. Nothing is going to stop if you land on a big downhill slope on a 10+ stimp green.
So, my screams of "Stop!!" and "Bite!!!" and "Sit Down!!" are futile?
 
So, my screams of "Stop!!" and "Bite!!!" and "Sit Down!!" are futile?

I recently was paired with some guys from Quebec when I was in Myrtle Beach. I can personally attest... golf balls don't listen to French any more than they do English.
 
I recently was paired with some guys from Quebec when I was in Myrtle Beach. I can personally attest... golf balls don't listen to French any more than they do English.
"Merde!!"
 
So, my screams of "Stop!!" and "Bite!!!" and "Sit Down!!" are futile?
Well I can't prove they are 100% worthless so logically that makes them 100% worthwhile.
 
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