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Par 5s - "Scoring Holes"

CobraX51

CobraX51

F-ck Yeah Baby!
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This is all I ever hear about Par 5s. In scrambles it's "This is an Eagle hole, or at the worst birdie."

On TV you hear Gary Koch or Jim Nantz say "Remember he still has the Par 5 17th which is an easy birdie you'd expect."

I can live with 39 putts yesterday, because that's something I have to improve on.

But playing the Par 5s at +5 was a joke. One of my playing partners beat me by a stroke, played the Par 5s at -1.

I'm not reaching any Par 5 in 2, it's just not happening, and I understand that/embrace it. I've got on maybe twice ever, both times needing to flush a "fairway metal." I struggle with Par 5s moral of the story.

2nd hole I hit a decent drive followed by a perfect hybrid. Front pin about 60 yards and I land to the back of the green. 3 putt Bogey.

9th hole I push a drive right. Top a 4wood. Blade a hybrid. Then flush a hybrid 210 out pin high on the fringe. Miss the Par chip. Bogey.

13th hole hit a good drive and it's decision time. To simply carry the water it's 215 to leave yourself a wedge. Or you can lay up with like a AW because PW might be too much and you're in the water. I grab 4wood and hit it well but fades into the water. Hitting 4 from behind the water I hit a good 7iron onto the green. 3 putt Double Bogey

17th hole push my drive right but in play. Chunk an 8iron to the trees. Punch out with 5iron out the trees. Wedge to the back of the green. 2 putt bogey.

To me this is all mindset. I don't even know what my Par 5 scoring average is but I'd venture to say its 6. something since I rarely birdie holes and usually card Pars/bogeys/doubles on Par 5s.

I know every Par 5 presents different challenges, like I think that 13th hole is stupid to have you needing to flush a fairway wood or layup with a sand/gap wedge.

What is your thought process when stepping up to a Par 5? Expecting to birdie? Or like me, content with just avoiding double.
 
my par 5 scoring average isn't any better than my par 3 or par 4 scoring averages.

where i struggle is in picking the proper second shot. i often just hit the club i think i can hit that will go the farthest, then figure out what to do from there. i have no plan, like "this 7i will leave me an easy 100y 3rd shot." that's course management, and something good golfers do really well.

so my point would be, find the club you are most comfortable with for your 3rd shot, and lay up to that distance. if you play for par, your score would have been 7 strokes better. 7!!! and i'm not that far behind you, because bad second shots can compound themselves so easily.
 
If you aren't trying to get there in two, why hit driver off the tee and woods and hybrids on your second? On 4 attempts that only played out to you being close once and it didn't bring pay dirt.

What is your best club in? Why not try to hit two consistent shots to get to that distance? So for me that is 150, so on a 525 yard par 5 that I have no intention of reaching, I could go 200 yards, and then 175 to get there.
 
Depends on how the par 5 is setup.

Depending on how much trouble there is I either know it's going to be a green light or layup.

If it's a layup, it again depends on what the 3rd shot is.

550 and under with not too much trouble, I'm hoping for birdie but am happy with a par. These are the holes that really say I should gain on my group.

550 and under with a lot of trouble I want my par and get out. I see no real advantage here and can see a big number if I play like an idiot.

More than 550 it's likely a 3 shot par 5 and I dont want to do a serious miss hit and mess up my scorecard.
 
There's definitely both sides to par 5s - low handicap players and good ballstrikers love them because they have a chance to get home in 2 and putt for eagle. At worst it's an approach shot with a short iron. If you're struggling with mishits, par 5s can be a disaster because there are more opportunities to get into trouble.
 
Two thoughts for me. On my home course (nine hole) I expect to birdie both if I can have good second shots. One of them I can sometimes reach in two the other there is no way.
On outside courses, I don't expect birdie unless I have really good second shots. I do expect at least to make par though.
 
If it is at the course I play most often I expect to make a par at the worst. I have good length through my bag and the par 5's at my local course range from 480 - 520 yards. If I hit two good shots I can easily be on in two. Bogeying a par 5 is unacceptable to me and I am really upset when it happens. My mind set is always to make birdie, eagles are a bonus, par is a consolation, bogey's are disaster.
 
I'm kinda in the same boat. Would think par 3's & 5's would be most birdie's on my card. A par 3 just takes one great shot and a putt. A par 5 takes 2 great or 3 good shots and give yourself a chance. Saturday I birdied two par 4's....? Good drives + great wedges and made the under 10' putts.

The par 3's weren't bad, well some where, but it was sloppy tee shots for the most part. The par 5's I hit some good drives but like either topped a fairway, hooked an approach into a creek or pond, and had a flyer 6 iron that hit pin high but ended up in a back bunker. Yeah so I ended up +5 on the 4 par 5's...

I think more than anything I just needed to keep focused, especially on those par 5's where you don't have to be perfect just steady.
 
My par 5 scoring average is around 5 if not maybe slightly lower, but I step up hoping to birdie. I try to play smart though and have no issues laying up on par 5s, but on the flip side I also have zero issues hitting fairway woods off the deck. At that point, I should be at the worst a short pitch/chip on, and birdie at that point comes down to my wedges.

A lot of ego with par 5’s though. I mean hell there is an entire company or whatever it is based on the phrase laying up and never doing it. The game is hard enough without making it harder.
 
For me when I step up, I'm thinking about hitting a good drive first and foremost. Don't put myself behind. I'm not thinking about a birdie, eagle, double, etc. when I step up to the tee. I'm thinking about the shot I'm about to hit, and try to avoid thinking about anything else.

The 2nd shot then depends on the hole and what's around the green. Can I really go for it in 2 and have a chance at putting for eagle? If no, I grab a club I hit well, and get it as close as I can, avoiding any trouble. If I hit a bad shot I reset so that I don't compound the issue. You should feel confident you are going to hit a good shot, and picking a club you hit well is more important that pressing and trying to reach the green in 2 with shots you aren't confident in.
 
For me it is Par 3s. There is something demoralizing about making a double on a par 3, where a double on a par 5 doesn't feel quite as bad.

At my level, I approach most par 5s as a bogey heading in, mostly because of length. Makes it a lot easier on me mentally, and if I par it, I call it a bird in my mind.

That being said, most of my (very few) birdies have come on par 5s, when I managed to put together 3 good shots in a row to be on in reg and 1 putted. I've never been on in two and that is a goal I will not be shooting for for at least another year.
 
Wake said:
If you aren't trying to get there in two, why hit driver off the tee and woods and hybrids on your second? On 4 attempts that only played out to you being close once and it didn't bring pay dirt.

What is your best club in? Why not try to hit two consistent shots to get to that distance? So for me that is 150, so on a 525 yard par 5 that I have no intention of reaching, I could go 200 yards, and then 175 to get there.
Click to expand...
I will never not hit driver on a Par 5. Driver was on yesterday, 11/14 Fairways so it was automatic removal of the head cover on each tee box. And I don't love hitting 4wood just yet, consistently, I could hit hybrid off the tee but not really something I want to do on Par 5s, usually reserve that for Short Par 4s.

Anyway. My preferred distance on 3rd shots would be 100-135. 54*-AW-PW. I'm happy with any of those. That's a pretty decent window of 40 yards to play to knowing I'll be happy to grab any of those 3 clubs.

Personally I don't play to a number unless it's a forced layup. Something to ponder.

joebute said:
There's definitely both sides to par 5s - low handicap players and good ballstrikers love them because they have a chance to get home in 2 and putt for eagle. At worst it's an approach shot with a short iron. If you're struggling with mishits, par 5s can be a disaster because there are more opportunities to get into trouble.
Click to expand...
I get that aspect. It's just something about them that I'm just like avoid writing a 7 on the scorecard. But now I'm starting to dislike writing down 6s haha.
 
Par 5's are easy...

...if you drive the ball 270+. If you hit it 220 like me it's just hope you land in the fairway and then it's like playing a short par 4 where I can't tee the ball up and there is probably more trouble than normal. I don't think I really get more pars or bogeys on par 5's than I do on any other hole.
 
My goal for par 5's are no stress tap in pars.
 
millsan1 said:
For me it is Par 3s. There is something demoralizing about making a double on a par 3, where a double on a par 5 doesn't feel quite as bad.
Click to expand...
I'm actually the COMPLETE opposite with this mindset.

If you're going to make double on a hole, make sure it's a Par 3. It's OK continuing to write down 5s on a scorecard. 5s are fine.

Writing down 7 blows up the scorecard.
 
For me I rarely have a par 5 where I will purposely pay it for a birdie unless I absolutely smash my drive, then I might play to a shorter 3rd shot if I am not comfortable using 3 or 5w on my 2nd. Had a lot of pars in the past where I went 3w-8i-pw. Depending on the length I am perfectly fine taking my 6 and going to the next hole, my problem is making the hero shot and ending up with a 7 or 8 after it's done. Those strokes can surely add up after a round. Hoping this year the pars on 5s go up and maybe a birdie sprinkled in there too.
 
Had something similar happen to me on Saturday. First hole of the day. Great drive left me about 220. Hit a solid 5w but pushed it and was pin high right about 20 yards. Bladed my pitch over the green. Chunked the comeback chip short of the green. Chipped again to fringe. Putt 5 feet past. Lipped out the comeback and walked off with an 8. Went from this is going to be a great start to holy crap what just happened.

My mindset of par 5's depends on the tee shot. If I get out of the box fairly well, and have under 250 left with no real dangers, I have a hard time laying up. It would probably be the smarter play and I need to tell myself to do it more often, but all I see is the potential eagle/birdie with one more good shot.
 
Par 5 trouble is mostly about ego for me. I'm not a good golfer, but I generally try to get on in 2 by hitting driver+4W. Much of the time I get close to the green, chip on, then try not to 3 jack it. But every now and then I'll play smart and hit 4W or hybrid off the tee, then lay up to a number (usually PW or SW). I rarely hit GIR on par 4s. So for me par 3s and par 5s are my only chance to score.
 
My mindset is to come away with no worse than par. Last year I sucked at that though. It seemed like every time I found a way to screw it up. I'd either blow my drive and leave myself in huge trouble or if I hit a good drive I'd duck hook the next shot and leave myself in a bad spot. I have to clean it up this year, it's basically giving shots away.
 
I never approach a whole expecting a birdie, or even par for that matter. My thought process on the tee box is get the drive in the fairway. Hitting the green in two on a par 5 is so rare, maybe once every few years.
Second shot thoughts are generally push the ball as far down as I can safely get considering the layout, and hopefully put a wedge in my hand.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
It depends on the par 5. One of the courses I play has a wide open drive, but because of the layout of the hole (a hard dogleg left with a tree overhanging on the right side, and junk on the right) you can't really fire at the pin on the second shot even if you bomb the drive. The second shot is usually a wedge or short iron, and it's all about getting in position. But... the green is one of the easier on the course, so you're rewarded if you hit a couple good iron shots. For me it's a hole I expect to par, but I'm not thinking "this is a good chance for birdie".

On the flipside, another course I play has a straight out par 5 that I can get within iron range with a good drive due to prevailing winds and the length of the hole. There I'm annoyed if I do anything other than par/birdie the hole.
 
My par 5 scoring average is 5.9. I can't get to any over 500 yards in 2. I used to try to get as close as I could in 2 but if it went sideways I was putting up double or worse. Now unless it's virtually impossible to get in trouble on 2nd shot I just layup to around 100 yards. This will be my first year trying this approach so I'll see what happens.
 
The average 11-20 handicap player averages about 1 shot over par on par 5's. Ironically enough, they average about 1 shot over par on Par 3's and 4's too! Check the graph towards the bottom of the article. You'll see that better players fare much better on par 5's. There was a different study done that showed that club head speed highly correlates to score. It's just the nature of the beast.


I think you have to just be diligent about knowing your strengths and weaknesses and making a smart plan for each hole. Like someone said above, if you know you aren't even going to try to get to a par 5 in two then hitting driver might not be the smart play off the tee. A lot of par 5's are setup for risk-reward so if you're tee shot is offline you might be getting penalized more than your average hole. Also, as the strokes gained studies have shown, practicing your long game is critically important. I'm not sure if you've followed that discussion the past 5 or so years but the old advice of spending 75% of your time on your short game has kind of fallen to the wayside. You need to hit the ball reasonably far and reasonably accurately if you want to break 80.
 
Most of the par 5’s I play are relatively short. They’d be long par 4’s for the pros. The longer ones would be short par 5’s for the pros. They’re all in the 500-550 range with most closer to 500. There’s even one that’s only 485 but it’s a pain in the ass. It’s the only one I play with a specific plan. I hit 2 7i’s and then a wedge of some flavor depending on wind. I’ve had way more OB balls than eagle putts so last year I started playing it this way.

The only play on that hole with driver for me is a hard draw. If I overcook it, it’s OB left. If I hit it dead straight it goes through the FW and is OB right. At around 195 the FW drops into a valley and takes a hard left then goes hard uphill to the green. A 7i leaves me on top of the shelf. Hit another one to a semi flat area and then wedge in. I rarely make birdie as it’s a tough green but I even rarer make bogey.

Every other par 5 I play routinely my drive sets up my next shot. So depending on how well I hit it, will determine if I go for it or not. Most of the time I’m hitting into the green if I hit a decent drive. There are a couple others that are in the 525-550 range that are both guarded front and left with water and both have OB long and right. Those I really have to lay into a drive to take a crack at them, I can’t usually hit 3w into them because I’m not assured of that holding the green, unless very soft out. If I can get into 5-6i range I’ll take a crack on those two, but most of the time they’re layup to about 100 yards.
 
CobraX51 said:
This is all I ever hear about Par 5s. In scrambles it's "This is an Eagle hole, or at the worst birdie."

On TV you hear Gary Koch or Jim Nantz say "Remember he still has the Par 5 17th which is an easy birdie you'd expect."

I can live with 39 putts yesterday, because that's something I have to improve on.

But playing the Par 5s at +5 was a joke. One of my playing partners beat me by a stroke, played the Par 5s at -1.

I'm not reaching any Par 5 in 2, it's just not happening, and I understand that/embrace it. I've got on maybe twice ever, both times needing to flush a "fairway metal." I struggle with Par 5s moral of the story.

2nd hole I hit a decent drive followed by a perfect hybrid. Front pin about 60 yards and I land to the back of the green. 3 putt Bogey.

9th hole I push a drive right. Top a 4wood. Blade a hybrid. Then flush a hybrid 210 out pin high on the fringe. Miss the Par chip. Bogey.

13th hole hit a good drive and it's decision time. To simply carry the water it's 215 to leave yourself a wedge. Or you can lay up with like a AW because PW might be too much and you're in the water. I grab 4wood and hit it well but fades into the water. Hitting 4 from behind the water I hit a good 7iron onto the green. 3 putt Double Bogey

17th hole push my drive right but in play. Chunk an 8iron to the trees. Punch out with 5iron out the trees. Wedge to the back of the green. 2 putt bogey.

To me this is all mindset. I don't even know what my Par 5 scoring average is but I'd venture to say its 6. something since I rarely birdie holes and usually card Pars/bogeys/doubles on Par 5s.

I know every Par 5 presents different challenges, like I think that 13th hole is stupid to have you needing to flush a fairway wood or layup with a sand/gap wedge.

What is your thought process when stepping up to a Par 5? Expecting to birdie? Or like me, content with just avoiding double.
Click to expand...

We have a par 5 that is a forced layup unless the wind is in your face. I hate hate hate having to layup on a par 5 from the tee box. Getting there in two from the layup can be anywhere from 220-260 depending on which side of the dog leg you are on. I personally love the par 5's as it allows me to play to my strengths. Assuming I am not in trouble off the tee, I can typically get there in two. But, when I miss the green, it can be trouble. Leave myself under a branch, short sided with a slippery down hill chip. Or, in the water right or left of the hole. I wouldn't say I expect to birdie. I just think my chances are greatly increased.

Edit: when I say I can typically get there in two. I am meaning I am within a comfortable distance to go for it. I didn't mean to imply that I am regularly on in two on par 5's.
 
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