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Nicklaus & Player - Roll Back The Golf Ball

golfinnut

golfinnut

DANNY LE! WHAT A GUY!
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https://www.golfchannel.com/news/ga...ading-books-2019-masters?utm-tags=golf1304000

[FONT=&quot]“We’d better start thinking. They are going to hit wedges to all the par-5s, and golf courses like St. Andrews, this marvelous golf course, is completely obsolete. They can drive probably six greens,” Player said. “So I don’t know where we’re going. And our leaders of such have got to get together now and form a ball for professionals that’s different to the amateurs. Let the amateurs have anything they’d like. … But we have got to stop this, otherwise it’s going to be a joke, in my opinion.”

Player & Nicklaus again voiced their opinions about how the golf ball has changed the game since they played. Nicklaus says that the ball "has gained 15 yards '95 to 2005" and that "the golf ball has gotten ridiculous."

I know we have had thoughts on the rolling back the ball in various threads. But what do you take from the comments from Player & Nicklaus? Do their comments mean anything? Would the USGA and R&A do anything more just because these two speak up?

Thoughts? [/FONT]
 
SO change par for those players.
Or stop mowing fairways to allow for 50 yards of roll.
Or grow rough out so they cant bomb and gouge.

Nicklaus complaining about length is funny to me, because he was the longest on tour and enjoyed the heck out of it. Then in his second act, created hundreds of courses based on length and is now complaining that tech is too much?
Stop it.
 
JB said:
SO change par for those players.
Or stop mowing fairways to allow for 50 yards of roll.
Or grow rough out so they cant bomb and gouge.

Nicklaus complaining about length is funny to me, because he was the longest on tour and enjoyed the heck out of it. Then in his second act, created hundreds of courses based on length and is now complaining that tech is too much?
Stop it.
Click to expand...

It's all fun and games until you don't have the advantage.

I love Gary and Jack, but they are out of touch.
 
JB said:
SO change par for those players.
Or stop mowing fairways to allow for 50 yards of roll.
Or grow rough out so they cant bomb and gouge.

Nicklaus complaining about length is funny to me, because he was the longest on tour and enjoyed the heck out of it. Then in his second act, created hundreds of courses based on length and is now complaining that tech is too much?
Stop it.
Click to expand...

This is so on point. Love Jack & Gary though.
The first time I went to Firestone & the Memorial and crossed a fairway, i was shocked at what i was walking on.
My normal greens were not so good.
 
Both are old men who are more concerned about their legacies than the vibrance of the game.

People need to stop putting microphones in front of them. At this point, neither says anything of value.
 
in other news, old guys act like old guys. this argument is so stupid to me. there are a 1,000 other ways to mitigate this that don't disrupt a huge revenue stream for oems or add further confusion to the consumer purchase decision.
 
Seems like it was Merion that played so short one year for the U.S. Open, yet the course ate the pros lunch. It isn't all about distance. Like JB said, pull the fairways in and don't mow them so tight.
 
Yeah, try different course setups before doing anything drastic.
 
Make fairways narrower with the grass bent into the ball so less run out, and the rough more penal. See sorted

Personally I think course set-ups are fine as is
 
Whaa. We could never hit the ball that far. Whaa...

Chicks dig the long ball and so do I.
 
While I agree with them in spirit, it is easily negated by shrewd mower manipulation.
 
JB said:
SO change par for those players.
Or stop mowing fairways to allow for 50 yards of roll.
Or grow rough out so they cant bomb and gouge.

Nicklaus complaining about length is funny to me, because he was the longest on tour and enjoyed the heck out of it. Then in his second act, created hundreds of courses based on length and is now complaining that tech is too much?
Stop it.
Click to expand...

I have been saying this for a number of years. Seems like a no brainer. No need to mess with the equipment.
 
JB said:
SO change par for those players.
Or stop mowing fairways to allow for 50 yards of roll.
Or grow rough out so they cant bomb and gouge.

Nicklaus complaining about length is funny to me, because he was the longest on tour and enjoyed the heck out of it. Then in his second act, created hundreds of courses based on length and is now complaining that tech is too much?
Stop it.
Click to expand...

One of the most eye opening things about them putting ball tracking on the broadcasts is just how much of driver distance is carry vs roll. Yeah, some of these guys are getting it out there 300 in the air, but a lot of them are hitting it 275 carry, and then rolling another 50 or more yards. I'm not saying balls should be plugging in the fairway, but halve the amount of roll and you're looking at 2 more clubs into greens, which will make a difference.
 
blugold said:
Both are old men who are more concerned about their legacies than the vibrance of the game. So thats just subjective opinion and how one might view things.

People need to stop putting microphones in front of them. At this point, neither says anything of value.
Click to expand...
Really? Id find it hard to believe that jack wouldnt be the first one in line to congratulate anyone who may surpass anything he has done. And be genuine/sincere about it. i dont know the man and never met the man. But i read and seen more than enough to feel that he is not that kind of person. Just like arny embraced jack In think jack would easily carry that forward
And how is "vibrance" anything but subjective? Many people aparntly think that long bombing holes is leading to destroying the holes (and courses) integrity. And therefore the Vibrance of the game.
JB said:
SO change par for those players.
Or stop mowing fairways to allow for 50 yards of roll.
Or grow rough out so they cant bomb and gouge.

Nicklaus complaining about length is funny to me, because he was the longest on tour and enjoyed the heck out of it. Then in his second act, created hundreds of courses based on length and is now complaining that tech is too much?
Stop it.
Click to expand...
i agree about course/hole changes that can be made. But i dont get where Nicklaus being of the longest (at the time) means anything. Was he suppose to not hit as long as he could when it helped him to do so? The longest hitters would still always be longer than the others anyway regardless of any ball changes. As for creating courses? if thats the direction the sport was heading and what land developers and owners wanted then why would he design differently? Just because he himself was long and designed courses in such a manor is not imo relevant at all to him feeling that the ball has become too long. Nor imo does that make him hypocritical about it in any way.
 
rollin said:
i agree about course/hole changes that can be made. But i dont get where Nicklaus being of the longest (at the time) means anything. Was he suppose to not hit as long as he could when it helped him to do so? The longest hitters would still always be longer than the others anyway regardless of any ball changes. As for creating courses? if thats the direction the sport was heading and what land developers and owners wanted then why would he design differently? Just because he himself was long and designed courses in such a manor is not imo relevant at all to him feeling that the ball has become too long. Nor imo does that make him hypocritical about it in any way.
Click to expand...

He never complained about courses being too long when it benefited him.
He never complained early on in his creation career about building some of the longest golf courses around.
Now land is more expensive. Resources are more expensive and he wants to cut back.

There is no need to impact all golfers for the .1% that play on the PGA TOUR. Not when something as simple as changing par or making the rough more penal for those select few weeks exist.
 
No reason to change the ball, make the course harder, put bunkers out there at 300 to 320 and make them work off the tee.
 
Snickerdog said:
No reason to change the ball, make the course harder, put bunkers out there at 300 to 320 and make them work off the tee.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, in the sense it will make courses harder. I don't think it would really impact most non-Tour players since they won't be hitting it 300-320 of the tee. I will say that it would cost a whole lot less money for the course to just not cut the course so nicely that week.
 
JB said:
He never complained about courses being too long when it benefited him.
He never complained early on in his creation career about building some of the longest golf courses around.
Now land is more expensive. Resources are more expensive and he wants to cut back.

There is no need to impact all golfers for the .1% that play on the PGA TOUR. Not when something as simple as changing par or making the rough more penal for those select few weeks exist.
Click to expand...

Im not at all arguing the 1% thing at all. And ive very often stated on the forum threds here myself that there are things course wise that could be done about looong hitters. Im only disagreeing with you in saying that he had no issue being long and playing long holes while he was playing. That imo doesnt matter and its not relevant to him feeling that the ball is too long now. He was long and so was he not suppose to be? was he suppose to intentionally be shorter? and just because he was long does that mean he should not be implying that the ball has now gotten too long? there really is no relevant connection at all there imo. The longest hitters are always going to be the longest hitters no matter the ball or equipment. they will still be longer than the next guy. Him being one more blessed with that at the time has zero relevance to the fact that he feels the ball has now gotten too long. I disagree with the notion that it should have relevance. That would be incorrect because it has nothing to do with it. Should he have advocated for a shorter ball back then? is that what you would be getting at? because if thats anything at all then he would still been longer than the next guy anyway. Im sorry but i just cant agree here.
 
rollin said:
Im not at all arguing the 1% thing at all. And ive very often stated on the forum threds here myself that there are things course wise that could be done about looong hitters. Im only disagreeing with you in saying that he had no issue being long and playing long holes while he was playing. That imo doesnt matter and its not relevant to him feeling that the ball is too long now. He was long and so was he not suppose to be? was he suppose to intentionally be shorter? and just because he was long does that mean he should not be implying that the ball has now gotten too long? there really is no relevant connection at all there imo. The longest hitters are always going to be the longest hitters no matter the ball or equipment. they will still be longer than the next guy. Him being one more blessed with that at the time has zero relevance to the fact that he feels the ball has now gotten too long. I disagree with the notion that it should have relevance. That would be incorrect because it has nothing to do with it. Should he have advocated for a shorter ball back then? is that what you would be getting at? because if thats anything at all then he would still been longer than the next guy anyway. Im sorry but i just cant agree here.
Click to expand...

Actually that is NOT necessarily true.
Depending on how the ball is rolled back, the longer hitters could in fact come back to the pack, rather than stay the same percentage away.
But Im not here to go back and forth. If you think there is no connection at all...thats fine.
 
mpeterson said:
One of the most eye opening things about them putting ball tracking on the broadcasts is just how much of driver distance is carry vs roll. Yeah, some of these guys are getting it out there 300 in the air, but a lot of them are hitting it 275 carry, and then rolling another 50 or more yards. I'm not saying balls should be plugging in the fairway, but halve the amount of roll and you're looking at 2 more clubs into greens, which will make a difference.
Click to expand...
I am not sold that those flight numbers are accurate. Great for marketing though.
rollin said:
Really? Id find it hard to believe that jack wouldnt be the first one in line to congratulate anyone who may surpass anything he has done. And be genuine/sincere about it. i dont know the man and never met the man. But i read and seen more than enough to feel that he is not that kind of person. Just like arny embraced jack In think jack would easily carry that forward
And how is "vibrance" anything but subjective? Many people aparntly think that long bombing holes is leading to destroying the holes (and courses) integrity. And therefore the Vibrance of the game.

i agree about course/hole changes that can be made. But i dont get where Nicklaus being of the longest (at the time) means anything. Was he suppose to not hit as long as he could when it helped him to do so? The longest hitters would still always be longer than the others anyway regardless of any ball changes. As for creating courses? if thats the direction the sport was heading and what land developers and owners wanted then why would he design differently? Just because he himself was long and designed courses in such a manor is not imo relevant at all to him feeling that the ball has become too long. Nor imo does that make him hypocritical about it in any way.
Click to expand...
I'm sure Jack would congratulate young golfer's accomplishments. I think Jack's opinions on the modern PGA Tour are irrelevant and held in too high of regard. No sport has a bigger hard-on for it's own nostalgia like golf.
 
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Maybe he should just design his courses with some of the suggestions JB made and create a layout that punishes those hitters. Place bunkers, rough, etc. strategically so it impacts the long hitters. There's more than one way to combat the length.
 
JB said:
Actually that is NOT necessarily true.
Depending on how the ball is rolled back, the longer hitters could in fact come back to the pack, rather than stay the same percentage away.
But Im not here to go back and forth. If you think there is no connection at all...thats fine.
Click to expand...

bringing them back to the pack? That may be a fair analysis and I suppose wouldnt truly know. We dont have to continue to discuss our disagreement on the relevance issue back and forth if you dont wish to. thats ok, I will just say than that I'll agree to disagree.
 
Seems like I read this a bit different than some. Sure the ball thing doesn't seem to be anything more than a couple of the old icons stirring the pot, but the basis was the affect modern tech is having on iconic courses like Augusta and St Andrews, courses that you don't want to change. I personally don't want to see The Masters or The Open played today with Persimmon drivers or Balata balls, but I also don't want them to make drastic changes to the iconic courses to challenge today's players. I just can't see Augusta with shaggy fairways and long rough, but what do I know?
 
Listening to Katrik and McGinnis Wednesday and a very interesting observation was made. The Augusta Chairman mentioned on Wednesday during his press conference that Augusta is waiting on the governing body to make a decision before anything is done to 13. K and M were then reading into that comment that Augusta already knows that the ball will be rolled back or something else will be done equipment wise, which is why nothing has been done to 13 nor are there plans for 13 as of now.
 
There are huge costs involved for rolling back the ball, equipment and redesigning current courses. They sure don't have problems spending other people's money.
 
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