Hamfist
I promise not to murder Canadan.
is the GOAT.
There, I said it.
There, I said it.
I would like to go out on a limb, and predict there will never be an agreement on who
I don't think that's such a crazy take, it's true of any sport. People will be more partial to choose the one(s) from their generation.
Yep. Michael Jordan is already losing stature and GOAT to LeBron (although LeBron didn't do himself any favors by going to the Lakers).
It is very difficult to compare players from different eras in just about every sport. In golf, the competition was different, they played different courses, the equipment was different. Instead of a GOAT why not just leave it that Bobby Jones was the greatest of his era, Jack his and Tiger his.
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- #6
All generational, because the truth is, neither of them are. Or even close.
The best part is how arguments are made. Its the most championships, except when its not. Its hte level of competition, except when its not. Its the percentages, except when its not.
It is all very funny to sit back and watch, but at the end of the day, its a conversation that has and will last for decades more to come.
I think that's very fair to say.
If Tiger doesn't at least equal Jack's majors, then he can't be considered the GOAT, imho.
I think he's the most talented player ever but results matter. His injuries and other negative experiences have an impact but no more than it would to me another player in any other sport. Football for example, a healthy Terrell Davis could very well have reached GOAT status. He wasn't healthy, so he isn't.
My personal take is, before Tiger, Jack was the slam-dunk, undeniable GOAT. For me, it takes a helluvalot to defeat or unseat the champ. Being in the ballpark just doesn't do it. Needs to be convincing.
If Tiger doesn't at least equal Jack's majors, then he can't be considered the GOAT, imho.
I think he's the most talented player ever but results matter. His injuries and other negative experiences have an impact but no more than it would to me another player in any other sport. Football for example, a healthy Terrell Davis could very well have reached GOAT status. He wasn't healthy, so he isn't.
My personal take is, before Tiger, Jack was the slam-dunk, undeniable GOAT. For me, it takes a helluvalot to defeat or unseat the champ. Being in the ballpark just doesn't do it. Needs to be convincing.
The_Dude
#TeamNE #Team Green #Hype
Although I hold Jack in the highest regard I consider Tiger the goat. His impact on all facets of the game from gear, clothing, purses, tv and on and on. Then throw in the 81 wins and 15 majors and the way he decimated the fields he played against. So many what if's as well. One can only imagine what his total would be without the injuries and personal turmoil over his career.
The argument will always teeter between values. What a person values most in this conversation carries the weight. Majors? Wins? Impact on golf? Eye of the beholder.
I'll pose another question. If Tiger ties Jack in majors, is he the undisputed
since he would have more tour wins?
I'll pose another question. If Tiger ties Jack in majors, is he the undisputed
since he would have more tour wins?
The argument will always teeter between values. What a person values most in this conversation carries the weight. Majors? Wins? Impact on golf? Eye of the beholder.
I'll pose another question. If Tiger ties Jack in majors, is he the undisputed
People would just bring up how many 2nd place finishes Nicklaus had in the majors.
Never ending story.
Agree. The only GOAT that will be undisputed forever is Gretzky.
I'm just old enough to appreciate Jack and Tiger having seen both of them on TV and live. Tiger played the game at a higher level than anyone for a decade but Jack is the GOAT for now. Of course, most experts agree that if Jack played a Titleist instead of that crappy MacGregor Tourney ball he'd likely have several more majors instead of 19 second-place finishes.
I will happily admit that Tiger is the GOAT when he gets to 19 majors. Then we can say that if Tiger didn't have a sex addiction or a bad back(correlation?, lol), he would have had several more majors! The fact that we are talking again about 19 for Tiger is the best thing that's happened to golf in a very long time!
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One thing that is indisputable. Tiger is the best iron player in the history of golf. No one has ever been better on approach than him. That was the real killer back in the day, the relentlessness of him having 15-20 footers for birdie on every hole. He still does it today if he is in the fairway, his driver just isn't as sharp as it used to be anymore. Boy when it's on like it was this week though, those darts start dropping over and over and over again on approach.
Hamfist
I promise not to murder Canadan.
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- #16
My brother once told me he'd heard a quote by one of the classic old-timers (can't remember who)
"The greatest innovation in modern golf was the lawn mower."
Which is an interesting take on the difference between then and now.
Looking at the other sports, the baseball diamond is the same, the basketball court is the same, etc. So, the influence on the equipment and the playing surface is definitely at play in my view.
I'm comfortable saying that there are valid arguments for both sides of the coin.
"The greatest innovation in modern golf was the lawn mower."
Which is an interesting take on the difference between then and now.
Looking at the other sports, the baseball diamond is the same, the basketball court is the same, etc. So, the influence on the equipment and the playing surface is definitely at play in my view.
I'm comfortable saying that there are valid arguments for both sides of the coin.
Hamfist
I promise not to murder Canadan.
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- #17
To be honest, this weekend was the best I've seen him hit the driver for an entire tournament. I always thought his driver was a wild-card. This weekend he didn't seem to have any of the inconsistencies of his earlier days. Then, again, who am I to say?
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- #18
The argument will always teeter between values. What a person values most in this conversation carries the weight. Majors? Wins? Impact on golf? Eye of the beholder.
I'll pose another question. If Tiger ties Jack in majors, is he the undisputed
You want to know who values majors as the deciding factor? Tiger.
Kind of puts a twist on a few posts in a few different threads here : )
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Definitely keep the goats away from Tiger, it could go either way hip waders or worse :act-up:
CobraX51
F-ck Yeah Baby!
That was one of the things Jack said during his interview on Golf Channel last night. Nobody comes close.
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- #22
Probably right. Just as many that obviously disagree with Tiger and say he is now. I mean some of the posts in these threads are hysterical. You want to really laugh? Go back and read the Tiger vs Phil The Match thread. Those predictions were funny too. What happens is that for a decade fanatics have had this pent up aggression and all of the sudden, anything even remotely contrary to their case, is just hatred. Its a defense mechanism I will never understand, but when you watch from the outside, it's so odd.
The same can be said for Tom Brady right?
Jordan is often viewed as the greatest, but his championships don't hold a candle to Bill Russell.
Fans love their generation. And I say that as someone that is clearly not a fan of Jack Nicklaus.
I'd agree whole heartedly and I think a lot of that is just the nature of the short term memory of fandom and as well as general bias. The optics are often more persuasive than the stat sheet and yet even the stat sheet doesn't tell the full story. That's the case in every "G.O.A.T." discussion. There will always be perceived bias and staunch debaters on both sides, which makes the
title somewhat of a phantom target in most cases. I typically like to say, "Tiger is the IMO, but I was a bit dogmatic after yesterday's pandemonium. 
SN: I need to go back and check out this Tiger vs Phil thread with popcorn in hand. Haha.
chriso97
Mad Golfer
I love this, in every sport this debate rages strong, but it is completely subjective.
I think it's generational but also personal. Tiger is my GOAT but I didn't grow up with Jack.
For some people (not me) there is this expectation that the best players also have to be the best "people". Personally I don't care who people are married to or how many times they have cheated etc. What matters to ME is what they do for the game, the influence they have and how they change it.
This will always be generational because I can only really make my decision on what I have seen and experienced.
Enough said but keep the debate going, the debate itself is good for the game.
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I think it's generational but also personal. Tiger is my GOAT but I didn't grow up with Jack.
For some people (not me) there is this expectation that the best players also have to be the best "people". Personally I don't care who people are married to or how many times they have cheated etc. What matters to ME is what they do for the game, the influence they have and how they change it.
This will always be generational because I can only really make my decision on what I have seen and experienced.
Enough said but keep the debate going, the debate itself is good for the game.
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If Tiger gets to 19 there is absolutely no debate.