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cyoung2ty said:
I actually just saw that. I had no idea you could go on a straight line backwards. Good to know for the future!

Typically, my unplayable lies fall in the woods and backwards is not an option. I take my 2 club lengths and the stroke. I have had to take a second unplayable once... but the 2 strokes were better than the result ever would have been.

Thanks for the heads up!

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so if your unplayable is in the woods and backwards is not an option where are you taking your two club length and the drop at?
 
emart2173 said:
so if your unplayable is in the woods and backwards is not an option where are you taking your two club length and the drop at?
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Typically to the right of where it's unplayable... no nearer the hole.

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dazeedmonds said:
Next question.... Soft stepping is cutting the tip down (tipping) to intentionally increase flex so the shaft is between stiffness profiles? So a stiff flex that's been soft stepped would sit between an s and an x flex ( of the same model).
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Actually it's the opposite. Soft stepping would be to play the shaft profile of one iron, say a 4 iron, in the next higher iron. So putting a shaft that has been tip trimmed for a 4 iron into a 5 iron head would be to soft step it. The heavier 5 iron head will make the 4i shaft play softer. To go the opposite way, putting a shaft tipped for a 5 iron into a 4 iron head, would be hard stepping. One step is roughly equivalent to a 1/3 of a flex.
 
cyoung2ty said:
That makes sense! Thanks!

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i would add that from a performance perspective, some people respond to heavier shafts by being able to keep them on plane better. there is more "awareness" of the head throughout the swing. whereas lighter shafts can get lost in the swing. i've seen those results with my own game. my ss would probably be better served with lighter shafts, but i have a hard time keeping them on plane so we go heavier and i lose potential distance but gain consistency (some of the time!).
 
c.a.eleric said:
i would add that from a performance perspective, some people respond to heavier shafts by being able to keep them on plane better. there is more "awareness" of the head throughout the swing. whereas lighter shafts can get lost in the swing. i've seen those results with my own game. my ss would probably be better served with lighter shafts, but i have a hard time keeping them on plane so we go heavier and i lose potential distance but gain consistency (some of the time!).
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Which is why all of the technical terms and things that people discuss in terms of grams is so unique. Because in a technical sense, taking two identical heads and putting two shafts in both of them that are the same, with one shaft weighing 10 grams more than the other, a golfer should "feel" the head in the lighter shaft more.

Hence swing weight.
 
JB said:
Which is why all of the technical terms and things that people discuss in terms of grams is so unique. Because in a technical sense, taking two identical heads and putting two shafts in both of them that are the same, with one shaft weighing 10 grams more than the other, a golfer should "feel" the head in the lighter shaft more.

Hence swing weight.
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more proof that I just don't understand swing weighting. I've seen the difference with my swing for sure. could it be because the lighter shafts were never properly swing weighted to me? I've also been told that I actually swing better when there is balance across the length of the club rather than heavy in one end or the other. would a heavier shaft achieve that?
 
c.a.eleric said:
more proof that I just don't understand swing weighting. I've seen the difference with my swing for sure. could it be because the lighter shafts were never properly swing weighted to me? I've also been told that I actually swing better when there is balance across the length of the club rather than heavy in one end or the other. would a heavier shaft achieve that?
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I really cant answer those, but I will use this example.
Take something like a candy apple. Obviously the head weighs more than the stick. So as you hold it, you feel the apple and if you were to move it side to side, the apple would be guiding it because of the heavy weight. Now see if you made the stick significantly heavier, the apple would have less impact and you would feel it less.

With all of that said, people feel different things and if someone feels the head more with a heavier shaft, than a lighter one, thats fantastic, now they know. I think the mind is a unique thing a lot of times as it pertains to feel. At the end of the day, as long as you know what works for you, that is all that matters.
 
JB said:
I really cant answer those, but I will use this example.
Take something like a candy apple. Obviously the head weighs more than the stick. So as you hold it, you feel the apple and if you were to move it side to side, the apple would be guiding it because of the heavy weight. Now see if you made the stick significantly heavier, the apple would have less impact and you would feel it less.
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That's a great analogy!!
 
JB said:
This is only accurate in steel.
Weight and flex have no correlation in graphite, which is one of the reasons that brands can manipulate shaft profiles so much differently in graphite.
As its been stated by many of the shaft experts on THP (The ones that make the shafts), one of the great things about composite materials is that a company can make a shaft the same flex regardless of weight. Its about material used and flag placement.
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That's why I said "generally" and "that's not always the case". But for most golfers, when looking at graphite shafts in the same make/model line, heavier is stiffer and lower torque. Probably 90% or more of the time. One example of that not being the case would be UST's Pro Force shafts.
 
So, no matter what option you take for an unplayable lie, it's always a one stroke penalty?
 
c.a.eleric said:
more proof that I just don't understand swing weighting. I've seen the difference with my swing for sure. could it be because the lighter shafts were never properly swing weighted to me? I've also been told that I actually swing better when there is balance across the length of the club rather than heavy in one end or the other. would a heavier shaft achieve that?
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I know this is completely subjective, but I'm really in the same boat. I tried lighter staff that what I was previously fit for (120 gram as opposed to my prior 130 gram iron shafts), and really struggled. I'm normally too much in to out in my swing, but the lighter shafts actually led to me throwing my right shoulder slightly over the top at times. Club head speed went up, but to a level I couldn't control. So I tried increasing the swing weight to "feel the head" more and it worked to some extent, but less than having a shaft more balanced across the length of the entire club.

The 120 gram shafts were built to play at D5 to try and help slow me down, but I've found I do better in 130 grams shafts at D2. I have not tried the 130 gram shafts in a heavier swing weight to see if I could find more improvement.

So long story short, it's somewhat trial and error and/or a fitting required on your part to determine what works best for you.
 
Since I choke down on my clubs to the end of the grip, what would that change, say, a 7-iron to? A de facto 8-iron? 9-iron?
 
-CRW- said:
I know this is completely subjective, but I'm really in the same boat. I tried lighter staff and really struggled. I'm normally too much in to out in my swing
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my miss is my path typically way open with a face that just a little open, so the heavier for some reason keeps me more on plane. that's what a fitter did for me. I'm by means a strong golfer or have an aggressive transition, but the weight thing really seemed to help me.
 
Hamfist said:
Since I choke down on my clubs to the end of the grip, what would that change, say, a 7-iron to? A de facto 8-iron? 9-iron?
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In a way, yes, but really what you get is a shortened 7 iron that cannot fly the ball as far due to the loss in leverage and club head speed.
 
Chase said:
Can I use an Orange Whip once the round begins? Say standing on the tee box waiting for someone to hit? Or is it considered a training device?
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Well you can as long as its not a tournament
 
Winter rules? 1) Does this have to be officially designated by a course and 2) what does that mean in practice and for outcomes like scores for handicap?

Context: We've been playing lately on courses where the effects of winter are dominant. Fairways are matted down grass. Snow piles in fairways and in sand traps. Sand traps have not been raked since last fall, no rakes on course either. Greens are biodegrading centers for mass quantities of goose and deer poop. And so on. But I don't recall a sign or communication that said: "winter rules"
 
cyoung2ty said:
So... while we're on the subject of shafts, I hear guys talking about 70 gram shafts, etc. I'm assuming that's weight.

If so... how does the weight help, hurt or otherwise influence the club?

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One reason I like to play a heavier shaft is it allows me to play at a shorter overall club length and keep a higher swing weight closer to where a lighter longer shaft would be.
 
mtcowdog said:
Winter rules? 1) Does this have to be officially designated by a course and 2) what does that mean in practice and for outcomes like scores for handicap?

Context: We've been playing lately on courses where the effects of winter are dominant. Fairways are matted down grass. Snow piles in fairways and in sand traps. Sand traps have not been raked since last fall, no rakes on course either. Greens are biodegrading centers for mass quantities of goose and deer poop. And so on. But I don't recall a sign or communication that said: "winter rules"
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For my group, winter rules consists of rolling the ball in the fairway only of the hole you are playing. Free drops from bunkers that are so full of standing water that there is no available sand to play from, rake a bunker under your ball if it comes to rest in a footprint or rock or pinecone.

Agreeable by all before the start of play. YMMV.

I won't post a round if I actually used the "winter rules" rule. Just because it's available doesn't mean you have to use it.:act-up:
I've never seen a course post wither rules, but I do know of many courses that take provisions for certain obstacles. For example. On a course I frequent, there are power lines that stretch across the 1st fairway about 100 yards in front of the tee. If your tee ball hits those wires, it's an automatic re-tee without penalty. This "local rule" is actually printed on the scorecard. You may think that it doesn't happen often, but it does. I played with a guy last fall that hit a wire 2 consecutive times.
 
I love the idea of this thread
brianmk24 said:
Here's the nerdy version of Rule 26 (you may clean or substitute a ball before dropping it):

You have three options from yellow stakes/lines:


a) play the ball as it lies
b) stroke and distance; drop the ball from the previous spot
c) drop the ball behind the water hazard, keeping the spot where the ball last crossed the hazard line between the hole and the spot where the ball is dropped, not closer to the hole


You have two additional options from red stakes/lines (lateral water hazard):
d) drop the ball within two club lengths from where the ball last crossed the hazard line, not closer to the hole
e) drop the ball within two club lengths from a point on the opposite margin of the hazard equidistant from the hole

I haven't figured out a mnemonic device or anything to remember the difference.
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I didn't know of the bolded part. so lets say there is a 90* dogleg left with a lake (red stakes) where you cut the corner.

lets say I hit a shot on the blue line and land in the lake. I usually drop where I crossed the hazard line (option d), leaving with wil a stupid shot to make and end up reaching the green in 5-6. could I simply drop near the red dot?


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Great thread..

Here's a weird situation and one I had recently.. There is a tree down (I'm assuming from bad weather) and it's right on the edge of the fairway. Ball ends up right in the middle of it. Have no shot at all. I'm assuming it's still a penalty stroke?
 
MPlefty said:
I love the idea of this thread



I didn't know of the bolded part. so lets say there is a 90* dogleg left with a lake (red stakes) where you cut the corner.

lets say I hit a shot on the blue line and land in the lake. I usually drop where I crossed the hazard line (option d), leaving with wil a stupid shot to make and end up reaching the green in 5-6. could I simply drop near the red dot?


8_zpsgt9h2l7l.png
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Correct.
 
MPlefty said:
I love the idea of this thread



I didn't know of the bolded part. so lets say there is a 90* dogleg left with a lake (red stakes) where you cut the corner.

lets say I hit a shot on the blue line and land in the lake. I usually drop where I crossed the hazard line (option d), leaving with wil a stupid shot to make and end up reaching the green in 5-6. could I simply drop near the red dot?


8_zpsgt9h2l7l.png
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captaincaution said:
Correct.
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Are we sure that is correct? You cannot drop closer to the hole. It isn't where your ball splashed down, it's where it crossed the line. I am assuming for the sake of this discussion, we are treating the trees like a lake. This is one of those goofy rules that very rarely gets used correctly.
 
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