Higher priced balls = better results?

Easy to test for anybody and those numbers are not only not accurate to our testing (or many others) (and it's not brand specific), anybody can test for themselves and find out.
Well I dont' know how easy it is for most of us (unless we are at a THP event) to test and get spin numbers, I have tested side by side on a practice green and only have what I see to go by, no numbers to tell how much difference there is. I was just curious as to how what the statement said compared to what you have seen in your LM testings.
 
The Callaway Super Soft balls are every bit as good as the Chrome Soft. Other then the red number on the Chrome Soft I can't tell which one I'm playing and the Super Soft is a lot less money.
 
You have read incorrectly. In fact there is not a ton of difference around the green in a LOT of premium balls. If people prefer not to believe me, they can check out the Golf Digest spin chart they do each year and see how close most premium balls are in short game.

You misunderstood what I was asking. What I have read is that off the tee there isn't much difference in spin between a tour level ball and a cheap 2 piece ball, but there is a much bigger difference in short game performance. Not so much difference within a category but between categories.

The golf digest chart I have seen in the past showed all golf balls within a few hundred rpm off the tee, both the spinny urethane covered and the surlyn. It was the shorter shots where there was a bigger difference.

To put it another way I have read that you might not see much difference in spin off the tee between a pro v1 and a duo, but you would in short game. If that is wrong what kind of spin differences would you see off the tee?

Edit: I looked up the golf digest chart from a couple years back and it showed about 100 rpm between a v1x and a duo on the driver. My original question was what kind of spin differences off the tee should you expect between a high and low compression ball with the driver? What I have read suggests not much.
 
You misunderstood what I was asking. What I have read is that off the tee there isn't much difference in spin between a tour level ball and a cheap 2 piece ball, but there is a much bigger difference in short game performance. Not so much difference within a category but between categories.

The golf digest chart I have seen in the past showed all golf balls within a few hundred rpm off the tee, both the spinny urethane covered and the surlyn. It was the shorter shots where there was a bigger difference.

To put it another way I have read that you might not see much difference in spin off the tee between a pro v1 and a duo, but you would in short game. If that is wrong what kind of spin differences would you see off the tee?

I didnt misunderstand you, I just dont disagree completely.
Im looking at a chart right now by a major publication that shows almost all urethane covered premium balls with in 1000 rpms of each and most with in a few hundred (similar compression balls).
Yet off the tee showing a difference of 500 rpms.

Now look at it this way. Which will impact the average golfer more. 500 rpms spin off the tee or 750 rpms on partial wedge shots? I will break it down like this and first and foremost say that they both matter. Then add these tidbits.

First, partial wedge shots for amateur golfers are almost always featuring less spin than is given by these publications and OEM tests. Because frankly technique is not correct. But lets say it was correct and golfers were spinning half wedge shots to the 7000+ into the green.

Second lets look at the tee game and take the average golfer hitting somewhere in the neighborhood of 3000 rpms of spin (its higher).

Take 500 rpms off both of them or addition to both of them or use whatever number one would like, 500 for driver or 1000 for half wedges.

Now which will have a bigger impact in the golfer's game? Remember the ball can only spin on one axis, so this spin has large effects across the table in both distance and control.

With the most aggressive impact (meaning the driver in most cases) compression determines (partly) how much spin is on the ball and without properly compressing it, too much spin and loss of ball speed is a huge factor. In fact according to one manufacturer, proper fitting is just under 10 yards by average per person (that is a full club). We have seen even bigger numbers than that (multiple brands).

Now move back to where I was speaking about golf balls in the short game area for half wedge swings. How many golfers do you think do that properly and generate anywhere close to that kind spin? 5% or 10%? Or are most playing a bump and run or simply pitching the ball up on the green and watching it run out towards the hole?

So with all of that said, the impact on the game to me is generated in two facets and both quite important. First, making sure you are compressing the ball off the tee so that spin is reduced and you are maximizing your abilities to generate distance both on good contact and more importantly mishits. Second, realizing what matters most to your game and where firmness might not be for the golfer. I think its also easy to see as EVERY major OEM that puts out a golf ball has gone softer in compression which kind of proves this point as low spin off the tee is the biggest buzz word in golf right now.

I do believe that a premium ball CAN help most golfers, however more importantly I think fitting for a ball with the most aggressive impact and the one that can/will have the biggest impact on one's game makes the most sense. Marketing says "feel", but we all know its ********, its a great validation term however.

In the end people will do what makes them happy and frankly they should. Hopefully this helps explain it and is not just rambling.
 
I definitely think they can help. There are times that I've managed to hit a shot that had to carry and stop that just wouldn't be possible with a non urethane ball. So that might save me a stroke, maybe two a round.

What's worse, and I am certain it's completely in my head, is that I seem better off the tee with a premium ball. I will keep a ProV in the fairway or at least the first cut, but give me a DT SoLo and it's heading for the woods. It's like I am less focused with a 'lesser' ball (or one that I've decided I don't particularly care for ). That's my fault not the ball's, but it is what it is.

Interestingly I feel like it's my iron play where the gap narrows and the premium ball makes less of a difference.
 
Interestingly I feel like it's my iron play where the gap narrows and the premium ball makes less of a difference.

Its not in your head at all. Its where technically it should narrow due to compression, contact and ball stopping based on trajectory.
 
I didnt misunderstand you, I just dont disagree completely.
Im looking at a chart right now by a major publication that shows almost all urethane covered premium balls with in 1000 rpms of each and most with in a few hundred (similar compression balls).
Yet off the tee showing a difference of 500 rpms.

Again I am not trying to compare premium balls against each other. My question is related to the info given from the Wilson Staff rep. My question relates to spin off a tee with a 2 piece surlyn vs a multilayer urethane. Not urethane vs urethane. My apologies if I have worded things poorly.

This chart here is one I have seen several times before. In the chart the duo has about 2400 rpm and the V1x has about 2500. On the short game it looks like anywhere 1500 - 3000 rpms between urethane and surlyn in general. That number may be less as you suggest due to quality of strike.

What I take from what you are saying is on a miss where I might not compress the V1x as much it won't go as far and the difference in spin will be greater than the chart here shows.


2013-Hot-List-Balls-Spin-Rate.jpg
 
JB, that was very well explained and not rambling at all. I sincerely appreciate you taking time to participate in this thread and discussion. In all honesty because it's a subject I'm not an expert on, I tend to believe what I read, and what I see. I know, I know that can be deadly...ha I believe Rallo and I may have read some of the same info. And I think I saw the same chart you referenced above. As your measurable are the same numbers they used.

I'm not naive enough to believe what I copied from Titleist web page isn't meant to promote their balls and not solely educate golfers, if that makes sense. At times I felt like i was part of a ping pong match with information going back and forth,saying that's a good point, then yeah that's a good point in return.

But your above illustrations are very well thought out. In short it also seems you might be saying, that their is much larger room for error on the tee, than there is on the green, so go with what is going to penalize you less off the tee, than help you more on the green? That may not be exactly your intent, but it's part of what I take away.

The only thing I will say, and I know you have seen me play all be it at my worst last year. I honestly do get better results on those partial wedge shots with the premium ball whether it's the Pro V, Wilson Urethane or Srixon ZStar which all also my favorites. I haven't noticed any of them spin too much out of control on the tee...at least of late ;)

I think this has been a good back and forth exchange of thoughts and information from your perspective.
 
Interestingly I feel like it's my iron play where the gap narrows and the premium ball makes less of a difference.

I am with you on this. I notice a premium ball mostly off of the tee, and then on shorter shots around the green. I don't know if it is the technology in today's irons, or my inability to put a lot of spin on any ball, but it seems as though approach just fly high and drop out of the sky... I probably wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between an e6 vs a 330s from 150 out
 
For me, year after year, I always try to make the move to a Pro V1 and end up going back to my Taylor Made balls. For some reason, I carve up Pro Vs with my wedges and the Taylormades seem to hold up better. Feel wise, the TMs feel about the same. Whether it is the old TP5, Lethals, or Tour Preferred, they have been fine by me. I have tried Srixon, Bridgestones ,etc. None have been my cup of tea...

I am with you on this one!
 
I understand exactly what you were comparing. I think I covered it in my rambling above, when speaking of technique and where mishits impact even more.

The funny part of charts such as that one and the one I referred to is what they are actually referring to, which is half wedge, which most amateurs say (at least on THP) they hate the shot, and don't hit it well. Which also sums up what I was saying above.
 
Don't we have to also assume that a majority of these ball tests are being done by a machine and not the average player? A machine will be consistent, but the average player...ummm, not so much. So from shot to shot, the spin rate could be signifcantly different.
 
JB, that was very well explained and not rambling at all. I sincerely appreciate you taking time to participate in this thread and discussion. In all honesty because it's a subject I'm not an expert on, I tend to believe what I read, and what I see. I know, I know that can be deadly...ha I believe Rallo and I may have read some of the same info. And I think I saw the same chart you referenced above. As your measurable are the same numbers they used.

I'm not naive enough to believe what I copied from Titleist web page isn't meant to promote their balls and not solely educate golfers, if that makes sense. At times I felt like i was part of a ping pong match with information going back and forth,saying that's a good point, then yeah that's a good point in return.

But your above illustrations are very well thought out. In short it also seems you might be saying, that their is much larger room for error on the tee, than there is on the green, so go with what is going to penalize you less off the tee, than help you more on the green? That may not be exactly your intent, but it's part of what I take away.

The only thing I will say, and I know you have seen me play all be it at my worst last year. I honestly do get better results on those partial wedge shots with the premium ball whether it's the Pro V, Wilson Urethane or Srixon ZStar which all also my favorites. I haven't noticed any of them spin too much out of control on the tee...at least of late ;)

I think this has been a good back and forth exchange of thoughts and information from your perspective.

This all started because it was said that a premium ball spins more off the tee. Which is a common internet thought due to the cover and makes sense from an assumption standpoint, so I wanted to make sure THPers got the correct info about where spin came from off the tee and why its so important to play a ball that fits them.

My belief is that a premium ball with the right compression can help most golfers, but more importantly every golfer should try and maximize their game with a ball they are comfortable with that helps them off the tee, rather than hurts them off the tee. My thoughts around the green are that its very important and urethane will help in that regards. Just that most amateurs dont hit the shot to generate spin enough to capitalize on the technology to see the benefit. Instead they should be working to benefit their violent impact with the driver where a noticeable difference is easily visible.

A urethane ball will spin more than a surlyn ball around the green when hit properly. Urethane as a cover spins more. Full swing irons people wont see as much a difference as compression plays a role here as well. Off the tee a pretty big difference can be seen between balls, especially on mis-hits (which I know doesnt happen as much online :D).

Hope this helps.
 
When choosing a ball, I work from the free backwards. Premium balls off more control around the greens for me, I assume because of the urethane covers. Off the tee, I find there isn't too much to choose between a premium and a mid range ball.
 
Thanks for the info, one more question I've always had, and it is partially related. Let's say we have an 8 iron approach shot, how much of stopping that shot quickly depends on the trajectory and how much depends on the spin.

2nd part, what would the difference in spin be between a premium urethane and a 2 piece surlyn assuming a fairway lie and mostly good technique?
 
This all started because it was said that a premium ball spins more off the tee. Which is a common internet thought due to the cover and makes sense from an assumption standpoint, so I wanted to make sure THPers got the correct info about where spin came from off the tee and why its so important to play a ball that fits them.

My belief is that a premium ball with the right compression can help most golfers, but more importantly every golfer should try and maximize their game with a ball they are comfortable with that helps them off the tee, rather than hurts them off the tee. My thoughts around the green are that its very important and urethane will help in that regards. Just that most amateurs dont hit the shot to generate spin enough to capitalize on the technology to see the benefit. Instead they should be working to benefit their violent impact with the driver where a noticeable difference is easily visible.

A urethane ball will spin more than a surlyn ball around the green when hit properly. Urethane as a cover spins more. Full swing irons people wont see as much a difference as compression plays a role here as well. Off the tee a pretty big difference can be seen between balls, especially on mis-hits (which I know doesnt happen as much online :D).

Hope this helps.
Would you say that, for the driver, the compression of the ball plays more of a role in perceived spin on mishits than the cover material?
 
Thanks for the info, one more question I've always had, and it is partially related. Let's say we have an 8 iron approach shot, how much of stopping that shot quickly depends on the trajectory and how much depends on the spin.

2nd part, what would the difference in spin be between a premium urethane and a 2 piece surlyn assuming a fairway lie and mostly good technique?

1st part - dependent on player, but both play a role and are intertwined more than people realize.
2nd part - This would also be dependent on distance, because compression plays a role here too. Number of layers can become a factor here as well as the friction of one layer to the next can add spin and not compress as much.

I strongly recommend listening to the THP Radio show with Corey Consuegra as these two questions are pretty closely answered and in great detail. The education available straight from one of the great minds in golf balls is there for the taking in less than 25 minutes.

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/the-golf-industry-uncut-volume-1-thp-radio/

And of course the "Let's Talk Golf Balls" segments on the home page (there have been 2 so far) have a TON of this info as well, really explained well.
 
Would you say that, for the driver, the compression of the ball plays more of a role in perceived spin on mishits than the cover material?

Yes sir, by a landslide.
 
I am playing some of my best golf since dropping down to the NXT Tour S. I get plenty of spin on full shots without it being too much. Greenside spin is perfect for my game. I generally chip with my 9 iron anyway. I am more likely to get it close to the hole by keeping the ball close to the ground rather than hitting a higher flop shot. I loved the Z Star, but full wedges were spinning back way more than I was comfortable with.
 
So what would on suggest for someone wanting a half decent golf ball which they can stop approach shots instead of rolling out, but doesn't cost $50-60 a dozen. I still lose too many to justify spending that.
 
So what would on suggest for someone wanting a half decent golf ball which they can stop approach shots instead of rolling out, but doesn't cost $50-60 a dozen. I still lose too many to justify spending that.

Wilson FG Tour/ Z-Star XV/ Bridgestone 330-RXs (recent models)
 
So what would on suggest for someone wanting a half decent golf ball which they can stop approach shots instead of rolling out, but doesn't cost $50-60 a dozen. I still lose too many to justify spending that.
Someone else could jump on this, but the Callaway chrome soft is a premium ball that can be had for $39ish for a dozen, while the bridgestone e5 is a mid entry level ball with a urethane cover for $30ish
 
Wilson FG Tour/ Z-Star XV/ Bridgestone 330-RXs (recent models)
Would you throw the Duo Urethane in there with the FG Tour?
 
Have to agree with the others here. If you find a ball that works for your swing and maximizes the results you want, stick with that ball. Even if it's a "cheaper" brand ball. BUT....ultra cheep is usually that way for a reason, and on the other side, just because it's $50 a dozen doesn't mean it's going to fit you the best.
 
Would you throw the Duo Urethane in there with the FG Tour?
I play the duo urethane now. It's definitely a great option, unless you find that you want a little more spin. It's great for an all around ball.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk
 
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