Take An Extra Club

Kay-Dee

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So two things happened recently: 1) I acquired a Shot Scope (thanks BuckNasty!) 2) I finished reading Mark Broadie's book "Every Shot Counts" (guy who developed the strokes gained metric). I decided prior to my first round with Shot Scope tags on all my clubs, that I would commit to implementing several of the concepts that Mark outlines in his book to see if it would affect my score. My average score is usually anywhere from 82 - 87....with 84 being the most common score posted. The three things I committed to do the entire round, based on Mark's book:

1) Swing hard with my driver on every tee shot and try and get the ball as close to the green as possible.
2) Figure out club selection for each fairway shot based on how far I think I hit that club.....THEN TAKE AN EXTRA CLUB.
3) Aim for a spot 18" beyond the hole and try to putt my ball past the hole to that spot (and not in the hole).

So here is a quick synopsis of what club I would normally hit based on yardage from the pin vs what my actual distance was for the round:

ClubI would hit this club if I am X yards away....Actually hit it....(average)
D260267
3W230238
3H215243 (outlier)
4H205191
5i190177
6i180Did not hit during round
7i170154
8i160132
9i150135
PW130117
GW12080
SW11085
LW10055

So the way to read this chart is...in a regular round, if I am 175 yards away, I would hit my 6i because I would/can adjust my swing to hit it anywhere from 170- 180 yards. But for this round, I forced myself to take one more club and hit the 5i...even though that is my 180-190 club. But when swinging easier with a 5 iron from the shorter distance, my actual average for that round was 177 yards. By doing this, I felt like every swing, regardless of the iron, was a chip shot. And I literally would imagine I was just trying to chip the ball onto the green.....even if I was 200+ yards away. This forced me to take a smaller, smoother, more lazy swing with less herky/jerky movements.

So how did I do?
Score: 79
Putts: 31 (7 one-putts, 9 two-putts, 2 three-putts)
Fairways hit: 10/14 (71%)
Greens hit: 8/18 (44%)

Shot dispersion was decent. The four drives that didn't hit the fairway were only a few yards left or right. Of my approach shots longer than 50 yards, 3 were short right 4 were pin high left, 6 were long left. Short game shots from 50 yards or less: 1/3 were 10ft to less from hole, 1/3 were 30 ft or less and the other 1/3 were 50 ft or more.

As you can see, despite losing significant distance at every iron club, I lowered my score by 5 shots in one round.

I think this strategy is something I will be adopting permanently. What’s your strategy?
 
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After you get some more data on the ShotScope, are you going to still take one club more, even if the data shows that the club you think is right, is right? (I.e.: the SS says you hit a 5-iron an actual 170. You are sitting at 170. Are you still going to take the 4-iron?)
 
Take An Extra Club

Excellent question. I hadn’t thought about that. I think my answer is no, I won’t take one more club (4 iron) I will hit the 5. The real outcome here is developing a smooth, effortless swing, while knowing how far I can hit the club while maintaining accuracy. If that means my new “normal” 5 iron is 170 and not 190.....then I would choose that club every time I am at that distance.
 
I think this strategy is something I will be adopting permanently. What’s your strategy?

You should. If you stick with it you'll get even lower scores over time. It takes a while to get comfortable and sync up that smooth easy swing. As you do, dispersion will improve. The key is to keep your ego in check and not start whaling at it again.
 
The one thing that I felt turned me into a “golfer” instead of a “hacker” was having a great understanding of how to be a shot maker.

Learning to control distance and read lies is invaluable to becoming halfway decent at this game.

On a given day, I hit 9i about 145 max. If my swing is good that day and I have 144 I’ll hit 9. On most days I’ll hit a baby 8 at 144.

Learning when to hit low shots, hit shots and when to take risks.....that’s what makes one a good player.


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Sounds like you have a plan to lower your scores. My strategy for the next month is to take a putting lesson or two and commit to practicing and improving my putting. I’m also completely shaking up my putting routine after not putting well in any of the 10 rounds I’ve played in April. I’m averaging 14 GIR so far but I’m putting maybe worse than I ever have.
 
It's all about knowing where the right miss is, not always necessarily picking the club that you theoretically hit X yards. Our ball striking isn't as consistent as we'd all love so if long is a bad miss, I don't club up. I'd rather just chip up with a wedge then risk thick rough / water behind a green.
 
I would say that’s a pretty good strategy for most golfers. However his theory completely goes out the window if you’re actually honest with yourself about your iron distances. It’s basically dependent on people having only a general sense of what they think they hit, but typically thinking it’s further. If you actually know your distances, then always taking one extra club can result in some pretty bad outcomes for you.

I can agree with the general theory that in most cases, if you’re in between clubs to take the longer one though.
 
I would say that’s a pretty good strategy for most golfers. However his theory completely goes out the window if you’re actually honest with yourself about your iron distances. It’s basically dependent on people having only a general sense of what they think they hit, but typically thinking it’s further. If you actually know your distances, then always taking one extra club can result in some pretty bad outcomes for you.

I can agree with the general theory that in most cases, if you’re in between clubs to take the longer one though.

If you know your yardages, then this idea doesn’t always work. Give me a back pin and then tell me to take one more club, I’m gonna shoot you a pretty cold look when I see my ball flying over the green.
 
I would say that’s a pretty good strategy for most golfers. However his theory completely goes out the window if you’re actually honest with yourself about your iron distances. It’s basically dependent on people having only a general sense of what they think they hit, but typically thinking it’s further. If you actually know your distances, then always taking one extra club can result in some pretty bad outcomes for you.

I can agree with the general theory that in most cases, if you’re in between clubs to take the longer one though.

well said, its been said quite a bit on here most people dont actually "know" their real carry distances on a regular basis
 
Take An Extra Club

If you know your yardages, then this idea doesn’t always work. Give me a back pin and then tell me to take one more club, I’m gonna shoot you a pretty cold look when I see my ball flying over the green.

I do know my distances. I have been plying the game for 45 years, and have used GPS devices with shot measuring capability for the last six years to measure all my shots with every club to learn those distances. So the ones I listed are what I ACTUALLY hit that club when taking my normal swing. I consistently hit my 5i 190 yards. My experiment centered on trying to hit each club 10-15 yards less far, and see if improved accuracy led to lower scores. In a one round experiment it did.....by 5 shots. YMMV.
 
I do know my distances. The ones I listed are what I ACTUALLY hit that club when taking my normal swing. I consistently hit my 5i 190 yards.... and if I step on it....occasionally 200. My experiment centered on trying to hit each club 10-15 yards less far, and see if improved accuracy led to lower scores. In a one round experiment it did.....by 5 shots. YMMV.

Oh I don’t doubt how far you hit the ball. I’m just curious if the take one more extra just makes people swing smoother for fear of hammering it over a green, so they put less spin on the ball on top of hitting it less than normal. Ball is more controlled and finds the green more often?
 
Oh I don’t doubt how far you hit the ball. I’m just curious if the take one more extra just makes people swing smoother for fear of hammering it over a green, so they put less spin on the ball on top of hitting it less than normal. Ball is more controlled and finds the green more often?

Fair point. Don’t know the answer. I will say that in Broadie’s book he states that being long is preferable to being short (unless there is obvious trouble long, like a pond behind the green).
 
Fair point. Don’t know the answer. I will say that in Broadie’s book he states that being long is preferable to being short (unless there is obvious trouble long, like a pond behind the green).

Which is interesting, and maybe it is regional, but long is almost always worse around here when I run through some courses in my head. But perhaps he’s thinking 5 yards long vs 20 yards short, and a few of those long yardages might end up “short” of their target and on the green then instead of always being short.

I guess to me that’s the same mentality for putts, where a putt left short never had a chance, but a putt that went long still did. Just different mentalities, and while I don’t personally agree, there is obviously merit to it if that many people have the same thought.

In the end, if it worked for you, then it’s a positive thing.
 
Take An Extra Club

Which is interesting, and maybe it is regional, but long is almost always worse around here when I run through some courses in my head. But perhaps he’s thinking 5 yards long vs 20 yards short, and a few of those long yardages might end up “short” of their target and on the green then instead of always being short.

I guess to me that’s the same mentality for putts, where a putt left short never had a chance, but a putt that went long still did. Just different mentalities, and while I don’t personally agree, there is obviously merit to it if that many people have the same thought.

In the end, if it worked for you, then it’s a positive thing.

Broadie uses an interesting example in his book. He asks: would you rather have to hit a 1/4 lob wedge from 30 yards in heavy rough left of the fairway to a pin, or a full lob wedge from 80 yards in the middle of the fairway? Most would take the fairway lie. But his data shows that, on average, you will take fewer shots to hole out from the rough than the fairway, because “closer is better”. Whether you’re closer short or closer long matters little, closer is better than farther. It’s why Tiger was the first to recognize that over the long run, it doesn’t matter where your drive ends up (fairway vs rough) being closer to the hole is better. And now everyone swings as hard as they can on the tee box without regard for the rough.
 
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Broadie uses an interesting example in his book. He asks: would you rather have to hit a 1/4 lob wedge from 30 yards in heavy rough left of the fairway to a pin, or a full lob wedge from 80 yards in the middle of the fairway? Most would take the fairway lie. But his data shows that, on average, you will take fewer shots to hole out from the rough than the fairway, because “closer is better”. Whether you’re closer short or closer long matters little, closer is better than farther. It’s why Tiger was the first to recognize that over the long run, it doesn’t matter where your drive ends up (fairway vs rough) being closer to the hole is better. And now everyone swings as hard as they can on the tee box without regard for the rough.
I would rather have the 30 yard rough shot. I tend to choke out of the fairway. I actually hit the ball well from the fairway today though.

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Broadie uses an interesting example in his book. He asks: would you rather have to hit a 1/4 lob wedge from 30 yards in heavy rough left of the fairway to a pin, or a full lob wedge from 80 yards in the middle of the fairway? Most would take the fairway lie. But his data shows that, on average, you will take fewer shots to hole out from the rough than the fairway, because “closer is better”. Whether you’re closer short or closer long matters little, closer is better than farther. It’s why Tiger was the first to recognize that over the long run, it doesn’t matter where your drive ends up (fairway vs rough) being closer to the hole is better. And now everyone swings as hard as they can on the tee box without regard for the rough.

This is especially true on courses that have short rough. The guys on tour have no respect for the short rough because they know they can get out of it pretty easily. That's why I say grow the rough long on every course. Especially courses that are set up for a major. But leave the courses alone that us hackers play of course. :act-up:
 
I think take the extra club ideology is overrated when used as a generality. It only works if one does indeed wind up short on most of his good strikes. Too many people like to include the outright poor strikes in the ideology. Its the same with driver imo. One shoulkdnt use driver on a short dogleg that bends hard at 200 just because they often enough screw up and only hit a 210 yard shot while they are very capable on most anyone of their better half shots to be 240 and into the woods. Imo you have to play to your better ball striking , not your rarer very best but simply your better striking, and don't include the outright screwups when making the choices.

As for being closer? I agree closer is better for the most part. But the one drawback is depending on the rough. Thick and tall and especially if the ball not sitting up is a different animal vs thinner and shorter of course. But thinner and shorter has its problem too. Enough times while there is not enough grass to really grab the club, they often is just enough to get between club and ball to cause a non spinning flyer. You know, the ones you think you hit perfect right at your target with your PW but it flies the green and lands at 8i or more distance...lol
 
I think take the extra club ideology is overrated when used as a generality. It only works if one does indeed wind up short on most of his good strikes. Too many people like to include the outright poor strikes in the ideology. Its the same with driver imo. One shoulkdnt use driver on a short dogleg that bends hard at 200 just because they often enough screw up and only hit a 210 yard shot while they are very capable on most anyone of their better half shots to be 240 and into the woods. Imo you have to play to your better ball striking , not your rarer very best but simply your better striking, and don't include the outright screwups when making the choices.

As for being closer? I agree closer is better for the most part. But the one drawback is depending on the rough. Thick and tall and especially if the ball not sitting up is a different animal vs thinner and shorter of course. But thinner and shorter has its problem too. Enough times while there is not enough grass to really grab the club, they often is just enough to get between club and ball to cause a non spinning flyer. You know, the ones you think you hit perfect right at your target with your PW but it flies the green and lands at 8i or more distance...lol
 
I said in another thread, that playing to you should play to your median rather than your average and I still stand by that. In golf your average is usually lower than your median. It doesn't make sense to play a strategy that accounts for the 5-10% of the time you chunk the ball 100 yards short of target - those shots are going to be awful shots under any reasonable strategy. These are the types of shots that drag down your average distance the most.
 
I said in another thread, that playing to you should play to your median rather than your average and I still stand by that. In golf your average is usually lower than your median. It doesn't make sense to play a strategy that accounts for the 5-10% of the time you chunk the ball 100 yards short of target - those shots are going to be awful shots under any reasonable strategy. These are the types of shots that drag down your average distance the most.

I agree with that. Cool feature of shot scope is it eliminates your outlier shots, so your average is almost identical to the median.
 
I agree with that. Cool feature of shot scope is it eliminates your outlier shots, so your average is almost identical to the median.

Yeah taking an average after throwing out your top and bottom 10% (similar to getting rid of outliers) will give you a good idea of what your yardages should be too.
 
I said in another thread, that playing to you should play to your median rather than your average and I still stand by that. In golf your average is usually lower than your median. It doesn't make sense to play a strategy that accounts for the 5-10% of the time you chunk the ball 100 yards short of target - those shots are going to be awful shots under any reasonable strategy. These are the types of shots that drag down your average distance the most.

haha,...even if those chunks and hacks and blades and slices and hooks are 30% of ones swings, still imo you play to what your properly swung clubs will give you.
 
Broadie uses an interesting example in his book. He asks: would you rather have to hit a 1/4 lob wedge from 30 yards in heavy rough left of the fairway to a pin, or a full lob wedge from 80 yards in the middle of the fairway? Most would take the fairway lie. But his data shows that, on average, you will take fewer shots to hole out from the rough than the fairway, because “closer is better”. Whether you’re closer short or closer long matters little, closer is better than farther. It’s why Tiger was the first to recognize that over the long run, it doesn’t matter where your drive ends up (fairway vs rough) being closer to the hole is better. And now everyone swings as hard as they can on the tee box without regard for the rough.

I don't think this really has anything to do with taking an extra club on iron shots, but I get his mentality on that aspect, and can agree for the most part as long as that 30y in the rough doesn't bring extra trouble into play. There are also some courses where "heavy rough" can basically equal a penalty trying to get out of it, so in those cases it doesn't really apply. It really comes down to course management, but he might go over that as well, as I haven't read this book.
 
Yeah taking an average after throwing out your top and bottom 10% (similar to getting rid of outliers) will give you a good idea of what your yardages should be too.

I don't think you can place a number percentage on it at all. especially as our caps rise. You simply cant count the rarer very best ones nor the poor screw up hits no matter how many there are. Imo you simply use all the shots that you hit while swinging well enough.
 
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