We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Driver swing vs iron swing

Two totally different swings for me.
 
Same or at least I try to make sure they are the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tadashi70 said:
As I said earlier in this thread, play how you want, do what feels good to you and above all else have fun. Subscribe to what ever you want on the range and on the course. If you don't play this way, it won't happen in one range session but to each his own.

I spoke to three other teachers this evening about this exact topic. I ask flat out if they were the same and all three, that work with the best in the world, said it is the same. So if you don't believe me then believe them.
Click to expand...



Tadashi70 said:
I need to know for those that have two different swings, how exactly do the swing differ?
Click to expand...

To respond to both your posts...at once.
I don't think its a matter of not believing (you or anyone) but perhaps a matter of how one might view the parts of the swing that do differ which then speaks for it being different.

I mean we do have to swing the club back and then down and on through and while that may suggest the same swing and would have many similarities are there not some differences? Like as mentioned,(unless I am wrong) for one thing hitting down on the ball before arc bottom vs hitting it at zero or up after the bottom. Striking the iron ball with hands in front leading. Isn't that stuff considered different? And since the strike contact point is at a different place (sooner vs later) then doesn't our timing for having everything come together to line up and also release energy have to be adjusted to the new place or point of contact? Couldn't this stuff all be considered different? Isnt the swing plane a bit more horizontal vs a bit more vertical? That is different also imo but again it may just be how one views it. I think all these things may at least be why many say it feels different but also perhaps may then view it as different.

With one swing would it be wrong to say we basically have a shorter one , with a more vertical plane, with an earlier strike on the downswing and leading with the hands vs the other one which is longer , less vertical, with a later strike on the upside? I don't see why even if only some of this stuff is correct that it wouldn't be considered different.
 
Same swing with a driver and full iron shot. We all have about 10 different length clubs in our bags which means 10 different swing planes and 10 different distances between our toes and the ball at address. All clubs feel like the same swing to me. As for the angle of attack, the PGA tour average is -1.3 degrees with a driver so the best players in the world are hitting down on it with their driver just like the rest of their clubs.
 
tahoebum said:
Same swing with a driver and full iron shot. We all have about 10 different length clubs in our bags which means 10 different swing planes and 10 different distances between our toes and the ball at address. All clubs feel like the same swing to me. As for the angle of attack, the PGA tour average is -1.3 degrees with a driver so the best players in the world are hitting down on it with their driver just like the rest of their clubs.
Click to expand...

Yea but with their high swing speeds they achieve optimum launch angle with a lower face loft at impact but most amateurs need not only a higher lofted club but also to hit at zero or up as well to obtain optimum launch for the lower speed. And besides even at the -1.3 degrees they hit at which is almost zero, its still much less vs the 4.3 degrees they hit their 7 irons. So the principal of the point that they still hit the driver at a different place in the arc doesn't change. Its still a different place.
 
rollin said:
Yea but with their high swing speeds they achieve optimum launch angle with a lower face loft at impact but most amateurs need not only a higher lofted club but also to hit at zero or up as well to obtain optimum launch for the lower speed. And besides even at the -1.3 degrees they hit at which is almost zero, its still much less vs the 4.3 degrees they hit their 7 irons. So the principal of the point that they still hit the driver at a different place in the arc doesn't change. Its still a different place.
Click to expand...

Most amateurs I play with don't have a positive AOA. Certainly the ball position will change the AOA with any club. I'm sure many amatuers have different swings with their driver compared to their irons. IMO they would be better off swinging all clubs the same with the obvious differences in swing plane and ball position as the club gets longer.
 
tahoebum said:
Most amateurs I play with don't have a positive AOA. Certainly the ball position will change the AOA with any club. I'm sure many amatuers have different swings with their driver compared to their irons. IMO they would be better off swinging all clubs the same with the obvious differences in swing plane and ball position as the club gets longer.
Click to expand...

That is sort of my point. Even just those two obvious differences you mention makes the swing then different. And thats without even yet considering some other differences mentioned. In the end we approach the ball (or have the club approach the ball) to strike with some slight differences. To me this is why for most people it doesn't feel the same and also why imo can be viewed that it isn't the same. The swing and contact made have enough (even if subtle) differences between them.

To add another thought. Perhaps just a theory or something to think about. Just perhaps this (the differences) plays some small part in why many tend to struggle with driver. Possibly because we simply swing the irons for so many more times than the driver during an average round. With so many more iron swings collectively played throughout our rounds, we (or many) just feel too different when swinging the driver due to the subtle differences and since its less often that we actually play it vs our irons we then struggle more to obtain repetitiveness with it.
 
Last edited:
rollin said:
That is sort of my point. Even just those two obvious differences you mention makes the swing then different. And thats without even yet considering some other differences mentioned. In the end we approach the ball (or have the club approach the ball) to strike with some slight differences. To me this is why for most people it doesn't feel the same and also why imo can be viewed that it isn't the same. The swing and contact made have enough (even if subtle) differences between them.

To add another thought. Perhaps just a theory or something to think about. Just perhaps this (the differences) plays some small part in why many tend to struggle with driver. Possibly because we simply swing the irons for so many more times than the driver during an average round. With so many more iron swings collectively played throughout our rounds, we (or many) just feel too different when swinging the driver due to the subtle differences and since its less often that we actually play it vs our irons we then struggle more to obtain repetitiveness with it.
Click to expand...

Your point about people struggling with a driver is spot on. I can't understand why so many golfers hit driver off the tee 12+ times per round. Most of the low single digit golfers I know hit driver 8 or less times per round. I only hit mine about 3 times per round.
 
tahoebum said:
Your point about people struggling with a driver is spot on. I can't understand why so many golfers hit driver off the tee 12+ times per round. Most of the low single digit golfers I know hit driver 8 or less times per round. I only hit mine about 3 times per round.
Click to expand...

I need someone like you to play every round with me to smack my hand every time I reach for the big dog when I shouldn't. Maybe I should glue a post it note on the crown of my driver telling me to put it back in the bag, I score much better hitting more 3W off the tee. Probably because I'm not trying to get Jason Day length out of it. :alien:
 
Ok...so after today's range session. ..I change my answer to very similar. Can't get my head to wrap around "same" but pretty darn close. I changed my setup and posture. Not only is it easier on this Ole bod...my flight came down a notch. Happy.
 
can i ask this again: are asking whether the swing is different, or whether someone is intentionally swinging differently?

i think the swing has to be different because the club is long and your bend at the waist is less. i think the swing has to be different because of ball position. i think the swing has to be different because of the width of stance. BUT i think my pw swing is different than my 5i swing for all of the same reasons.

do i try to hit up on my driver? no, that caused some really nasty plane issues. do i try to lengthen my driver swing compared to my iron swing? not really, the bend at the waist and width of stance take care of that as long as i don't rush things. do i try to swing harder? no.

so no, i don't intentionally try to swing driver any differently. setup and club design force the swing to be different, just as these same factors make short iron swings different from long iron swings. but i can't think of any intentional differences i try to build in to driver vs any other club.
 
c.a.eleric said:
can i ask this again: are asking whether the swing is different, or whether someone is intentionally swinging differently?

i think the swing has to be different because the club is long and your bend at the waist is less. i think the swing has to be different because of ball position. i think the swing has to be different because of the width of stance. BUT i think my pw swing is different than my 5i swing for all of the same reasons.

do i try to hit up on my driver? no, that caused some really nasty plane issues. do i try to lengthen my driver swing compared to my iron swing? not really, the bend at the waist and width of stance take care of that as long as i don't rush things. do i try to swing harder? no.

so no, i don't intentionally try to swing driver any differently. setup and club design force the swing to be different, just as these same factors make short iron swings different from long iron swings. but i can't think of any intentional differences i try to build in to driver vs any other club.
Click to expand...
I was asking about intentional different swings, whether dramatically or not. It kind of all goes to the whole feel vs reality issue. I know what I feel through the swing isn't necessarily what action I am exactly putting in the swing lol.
 
kc720 said:
I was asking about intentional different swings, whether dramatically or not. It kind of all goes to the whole feel vs reality issue. I know what I feel through the swing isn't necessarily what action I am exactly putting in the swing lol.
Click to expand...

you're a better golfer than I am by a long shot. what kind of differences are you intentionally doing?
 
I'm not doing anything intentionally different per say... but what prompted question in my mind is this...

With setup differences, I think the plane on which the shoulders turn happens is different. Therefore is it something you definitely account for or does it just happen with the same action? I think it's a very fine line whether it's something that is intentionally done during the swing or not and can be argued both ways.
c.a.eleric said:
you're a better golfer than I am by a long shot. what kind of differences are you intentionally doing?
Click to expand...
 
kc720 said:
I'm not doing anything intentionally different per say... but what prompted question in my mind is this...

With setup differences, I think the plane on which the shoulders turn happens is different. Therefore is it something you definitely account for or does it just happen with the same action? I think it's a very fine line whether it's something that is intentionally done during the swing or not and can be argued both ways.
Click to expand...

Its intentionally done imo. I say that because imo we are intentionally adjusting our stance for the driver specifically. One can swing more vertical if he chose to. Just like one may chose to swing more vertical with an iron out of heavy rough or tall fescue. We also (of all the clubs) intentionally make contact at the furthest point forward in the arc of them all. Even if still before zero its still the furthest one and that's intentional. We also intentionally don't heavily lead with the hands like a 7iron. Most of this seems pretty intentional to me. And because we hit the ball at our most forward spot vs the rest of the clubs we then intentionally have to correct our timing of the strike. It just seems like its more intentional stuff to me.
 
rollin said:
Just like one may chose to swing more vertical with an iron out of heavy rough or tall fescue.
Click to expand...

i don't think that's the same thing. we are talking about stock swings from a perfect lie.

rollin said:
We also (of all the clubs) intentionally make contact at the furthest point forward in the arc of them all.
Click to expand...

and with your shortest wedge you are likely making contact at the furthest point back in the arc. so do you change your swing for your shortest wedge? do you consciously pull out your lob wedge swing for your lob wedge, and your 9i swing for your 9i, and your 5i swing for your 5i? do you intentionally swing differently for any of those clubs based solely on ball position?

rollin said:
We also intentionally don't heavily lead with the hands like a 7iron.
Click to expand...

i can't speak for anyone else, but i don't intentionally lead with my hands when i swing any iron. it's just sequencing that gets the handle leaning forward. proper lower body action, lag, and release.

rollin said:
And because we hit the ball at our most forward spot vs the rest of the clubs we then intentionally have to correct our timing of the strike.
Click to expand...

same as above, do you intentionally correct the timing when hitting a wedge?

these are genuine questions because i feel like once upon a time i did try to swing differently with driver than irons. but i don't anymore and i've never driven the ball better. is it all happening on a subconscious level? perhaps. but i would think the same thing is happening on an unconscious level when i pull every club in the bag. i don't know why it's specific to driver.
 
J4U said:
Ok...so after today's range session. ..I change my answer to very similar. Can't get my head to wrap around "same" but pretty darn close. I changed my setup and posture. Not only is it easier on this Ole bod...my flight came down a notch. Happy.
Click to expand...

If you had the same stance and posture then the action should have been the same. If not you're making adjustments. Glad you tried
 
tahoebum said:
Your point about people struggling with a driver is spot on. I can't understand why so many golfers hit driver off the tee 12+ times per round. Most of the low single digit golfers I know hit driver 8 or less times per round. I only hit mine about 3 times per round.
Click to expand...
100% course dependent for me but I have to have a reason not to hit it. A bunch of the course I play are easy and boring so no reason to hit hybrid and have 100 in when I can hit driver and have 55 in. Now if there is tons of trouble starting at 260 they I am not using driver unless the hole is 430+
 
Tadashi70 said:
If you had the same stance and posture then the action should have been the same. If not you're making adjustments. Glad you tried
Click to expand...
What I meant to say is its closer now. I removed my spine tilt and position my head as with my irons. More similar now and found one of the causes for the extra high ball flight off the driver. Who knows...I might start to see roll...ha. it's all visual as I was at the range. Don't know if it actually changed anything number wise. Body is happy. Thanks Freddie.
 
c.a.eleric said:
i don't think that's the same thing. we are talking about stock swings from a perfect lie.



and with your shortest wedge you are likely making contact at the furthest point back in the arc. so do you change your swing for your shortest wedge? do you consciously pull out your lob wedge swing for your lob wedge, and your 9i swing for your 9i, and your 5i swing for your 5i? do you intentionally swing differently for any of those clubs based solely on ball position?



i can't speak for anyone else, but i don't intentionally lead with my hands when i swing any iron. it's just sequencing that gets the handle leaning forward. proper lower body action, lag, and release.



same as above, do you intentionally correct the timing when hitting a wedge?

these are genuine questions because i feel like once upon a time i did try to swing differently with driver than irons. but i don't anymore and i've never driven the ball better. is it all happening on a subconscious level? perhaps. but i would think the same thing is happening on an unconscious level when i pull every club in the bag. i don't know why it's specific to driver.
Click to expand...

Im not saying its specific to only driver but just perhaps a bit more significant and enough so that makes it feel different.. I did mention my 5iron does feel different than my PW. Why shouldn't it? It is shorter, it is hit a tad further back, we stand at a different distance from the ball and at a different angle and produce slightly different swing planes. They are even if just a little.....different imo.
 
Other than keeping my head behind the ball and my body slightly tilted toward the left (Im a lefty) with my driver, the swing is rather similar.
 
Yantropov said:
Other than keeping my head behind the ball and my body slightly tilted toward the left (Im a lefty) with my driver, the swing is rather similar.
Click to expand...

Here is one of the funny things about this that often seems to be the case when and wherever this topic gets discussed.
The fact that you said "other than" is what I'm talking about.

The sentence usually starts with - "Its the same" and then continues with one of the following....

..."Other than"
"except for"
"but"
"however"
or some other words that may indicate change.

Regardless which words may follow any of those words they all then make the same swing no longer the same. There would be no need for a "other than" or a "however" in the sentence if it was all the same. I just thought its an interesting point.
 
rollin said:
Here is one of the funny things about this that often seems to be the case when and wherever this topic gets discussed.
The fact that you said "other than" is what I'm talking about.

The sentence usually starts with - "Its the same" and then continues with one of the following....

..."Other than"
"except for"
"but"
"however"
or some other words that may indicate change.

Regardless which words may follow any of those words they all then make the same swing no longer the same. There would be no need for a "other than" or a "however" in the sentence if it was all the same. I just thought its an interesting point.
Click to expand...

All I know is that you may need to go see a pro for extensive lessons in golf. Debating,not so much. But it sounds like you have different swings for each club and that might explain a great deal about your game.
 
Tadashi70 said:
All I know is that you may need to go see a pro for extensive lessons in golf. Debating,not so much. But it sounds like you have different swings for each club and that might explain a great deal about your game.
Click to expand...

Not really Freddie. I don't go out there and think as though I am swinging different with every club. My general motions and mindset are very similar with all clubs and don't really think about it much at all. Its just that we are discussing the topic and so it then imo gets a bit more precise. When analyzing (irons vs driver), I can see why/how many feel its a bit different is all really. and I find it interesting to debate and discuss it.

However, can I use extensive lessons? if I had the money and wanted to go through a long process (again). I sure would get them :)
 
This thread is surprisingly heated. I have never heard or read anything from any teacher or professional that they intentionally swing the club differently for full swings with different clubs. Sure, setup is different, but the mechanics are the same.

Next question, how much spine tilt are people putting into their set up? It shouldn't be forced, it should happen naturally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top