Bizarre Shaft Pairing

formula8

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I thought I had a good understanding of fitting and shaft selection, but was proven to be an idiot.

My buddy has a Fusion w/ stock UST Recoil ES 450 F3 (regular flex) He swings mid 80's so it makes sense.
I have an XR16 w/ Fuji Speeder Evo stiff flex playing 45". I swing it around 105 and thought it was a good fit.

I was at the range with him and hit his driver for fun and it was just stupid how straight and well I hit it. Meanwhile I'm switching back and forth to my driver and hit some good ones and some big misses (look hook and high push). That is the norm for me on the course and I just assumed it was my swing.

I then switched our shafts into the opposite head. Immediately my same misses show up with the Fuji shaft in the Fusion. XR16 with the Recoil I didn't miss a beat and literally couldn't hit one bad drive in at least 30 balls. Mind you it's now at a D6.5 swingweight with lead tape on my head. It was so good that I was able to drop down to both 8* and 9* loft and get a perfect flight and more ball speed. I can't overstate how well I was hitting it.

Besides me just being able to time my swing better with this shaft, how is this possible? I'm looking for a golf nerd, technical answer here. I just can't wrap my head around this one. Never in a million years would I have seriously tried this shaft that amounts to a 56 gram wet noodle.
 
That’s interesting do you think your tempo changed swinging the wet noodle?


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I don't know if there is a scientific term, but I currently play a heavier shaft in my driver than my fairway woods. I would think a lot of it has to do with the swingweight of the club, if you know where the head is in your swing probably helps you time it up.
 
That’s interesting do you think your tempo changed swinging the wet noodle?


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Not sure but it's possible. If anything it feels like I don't have to get as quick at the top trying to load the shaft. But I was going after it and swinging as hard as I wanted and never hooked a ball. Going to play my round tomorrow with this shaft and see how it goes.
 
I don't know if there is a scientific term, but I currently play a heavier shaft in my driver than my fairway woods. I would think a lot of it has to do with the swingweight of the club, if you know where the head is in your swing probably helps you time it up.
I would guess swing weight also but I hit it equally well in both heads. One at D2 and one at D6.5. It's just baffling because it debunks everything I thought I knew. I'm curious how I would do with a different profile shaft of the weight.
 
I would guess it would have to do with weight and possibly shaft torque. Possibly the lighter weight helps your timing and the higher torque helps you square the face more. That’s completely a guess though, but you should definitely explore some options. Using a shaft with higher torque can sometimes help keep the face open and take out the left side of the course, for right handed golfers...
 
I would guess swing weight also but I hit it equally well in both heads. One at D2 and one at D6.5. It's just baffling because it debunks everything I thought I knew. I'm curious how I would do with a different profile shaft of the weight.

In my time watching too many videos and talking to people who might know things my take is that the weight of the shaft is so much more important than flex. Finding the right weight shaft and then dialing in the flex/profile is the order I would go. Maybe go test out some other shafts in that weight range and see if you get similar results?
 
i had a run with a very light, very flexy women’s shaft in a women’s head recently. it was amazing. but when i went after it, i saw a lot of issues. if i kept my tempo in check, nothing but high straight drives. so maybe we are similar, where the whippier shaft made us slow our tempo and time it better.


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I remember this from DB TT and THCE. Stiffness doesn’t equal strength.

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My wife has a cobra driver that I simply can't miss with. It has tons of offset a noodle ma doodle shaft and 11 degrees of loft. I play an X2 hot set to 9* with a grafalloy bi-matrix x flex shaft...

It goes nowhere distance wise but it is straight
 
Is bend point of the recoil is a bit lower than your fuji model?
 
Definitely related to tempo, imo.

I learned a lesson on that years ago, before cellphones, when taping my swing with a pro. He was offering $20 videos all the while trying to drum up business for lessons. I'd never before saw my own swing, so there I was.

He came up short for a professional hockey career, a strong, stocky man, and backed into golf late. He was a Callaway staffer and not only had all stock shafts, despite his near 120 mph SS, he had regular flex.

He said that he'd very commonly fit much slower swing speeds than his own into stiff as they had a quicker or more violent tempo/transition. For him, regular flex is all he ever played and his swing was timed up for it.

He pounded the ball, I was amazed by such a strong ball flight with what I'd assume to be terribly ill-fitting shafts for him.
 
So I have a quick update. Played 9 with the friend whom I swapped shafts with. We played our own heads but with the swapped shafts.

I only hit 1/6 fairways with driver but was still hitting high, straight bombs. My misses were all down the right side only because I kept playing for my usual draw. Just couldn't trust myself yet, fearing my normal big hook miss would show up.

Maybe it's a tempo thing, maybe it's weight, maybe those two are related. I'm going to test some other lighter shafts and find out.
 
Is bend point of the recoil is a bit lower than your fuji model?
Without looking it up I'd say the recoil is higher bend point since it's intending to be a high launching shaft. Fuji is a low/mid which is maybe why I feel like I need to jump on it to load it.
 
Definitely related to tempo, imo.

I learned a lesson on that years ago, before cellphones, when taping my swing with a pro. He was offering $20 videos all the while trying to drum up business for lessons. I'd never before saw my own swing, so there I was.

He came up short for a professional hockey career, a strong, stocky man, and backed into golf late. He was a Callaway staffer and not only had all stock shafts, despite his near 120 mph SS, he had regular flex.

He said that he'd very commonly fit much slower swing speeds than his own into stiff as they had a quicker or more violent tempo/transition. For him, regular flex is all he ever played and his swing was timed up for it.

He pounded the ball, I was amazed by such a strong ball flight with what I'd assume to be terribly ill-fitting shafts for him.
Interesting story. I never thought of myself as someone with a smooth tempo. Getting quick at the top is where my miss comes in so I am conscious of that and I try to slow it down. Maybe this shaft is helping me do that without me realizing it.
 
Interesting story. I never thought of myself as someone with a smooth tempo. Getting quick at the top is where my miss comes in so I am conscious of that and I try to slow it down. Maybe this shaft is helping me do that without me realizing it.

i would say you have a pretty smooth tempo after we played in orlando


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This thread just got real bizarre!


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You should read pluggedingolf.com's mythbusters stuff. They basically show that nearly everything people think they know about shafts is false. Basically your swing is your swing and you just need to find the shaft that works for you no matter what flex, weight, etc it has stamped on it. If it's the right combo of strait and long it's the right shaft. Too many people are looking for the right combo of stiffness and weight instead.
 
You should read pluggedingolf.com's mythbusters stuff. They basically show that nearly everything people think they know about shafts is false. Basically your swing is your swing and you just need to find the shaft that works for you no matter what flex, weight, etc it has stamped on it. If it's the right combo of strait and long it's the right shaft. Too many people are looking for the right combo of stiffness and weight instead.

Ego drives so many of us and feel is left out


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This thread just got real bizarre!


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definitely, I think someone took this talk about shaft stiffness in a different direction.
 
also, remembering some different thoughts I wanted to share here.

I remember hearing JB talk about Danny Le fitting some THPers at Shaft up Events. That guys that fought a hook most would hand a low torque shaft, instead they ended up finding the best success with mid high to high torque shaft. Why? The thought was the "softer" feel got them to keep from over rotating and minimized the left tendency.

Had a somewhat similar discussion with the Odyssey guys last weekend when talking about toe hang and face rotation in putters. Said sometimes you give someone who has a big arc/rotates the face a lot a putter with a lot of toe hang because it works with their swing. But sometimes that just makes them rotate even more so they give them a face balanced putter and it gives that player more consistent results.

Said we all react to certain stimuli differently so you have to test it out to see what happens for each player.
 
I remember hearing JB talk about Danny Le fitting some THPers at Shaft up Events. That guys that fought a hook most would hand a low torque shaft, instead they ended up finding the best success with mid high to high torque shaft. Why? The thought was the "softer" feel got them to keep from over rotating and minimized the left tendency.

I’ll also add that the left miss high torque shaft fitting combo can also help some players because when they have that high torque shaft the face will actually stay open through impact. It helps hold off the shaft “kick”, which with higher torque shuts the face, until after impact. I was fit into a low torque shaft by Danny Le for the exact opposite reason, big right miss.

To the OP, if you’ve never tried a UST Helium shaft, that’s one I would highly recommend for you. Lightweight, high torque, but still stable enough you won’t feel like you’ll overpower it. I know several guys that have had the left miss that found it to be a great fit for them.
 
also, remembering some different thoughts I wanted to share here.

I remember hearing JB talk about Danny Le fitting some THPers at Shaft up Events. That guys that fought a hook most would hand a low torque shaft, instead they ended up finding the best success with mid high to high torque shaft. Why? The thought was the "softer" feel got them to keep from over rotating and minimized the left tendency.

Had a somewhat similar discussion with the Odyssey guys last weekend when talking about toe hang and face rotation in putters. Said sometimes you give someone who has a big arc/rotates the face a lot a putter with a lot of toe hang because it works with their swing. But sometimes that just makes them rotate even more so they give them a face balanced putter and it gives that player more consistent results.

Said we all react to certain stimuli differently so you have to test it out to see what happens for each player.
That's interesting and very counterintuitive. It's hard to know what is going to be a good fit without trying a bunch of stuff. After playing today with the wet noodle shaft I proved that it can hooked. But my misses were less severe.
 
That's interesting and very counterintuitive. It's hard to know what is going to be a good fit without trying a bunch of stuff. After playing today with the wet noodle shaft I proved that it can hooked. But my misses were less severe.

Oh any combination can still produce a good and an awful result, but testing to find out which gives you the best result most often is the goal. If you can I would hit up a club fitter, pay for the fit and find out what combination works best for you.
 
Oh any combination can still produce a good and an awful result, but testing to find out which gives you the best result most often is the goal. If you can I would hit up a club fitter, pay for the fit and find out what combination works best for you.
The driver fitting may be worth it just to narrow down a profile and weight even if I don't buy from them. I have no interest in a $500 shaft.
I’ll also add that the left miss high torque shaft fitting combo can also help some players because when they have that high torque shaft the face will actually stay open through impact. It helps hold off the shaft “kick”, which with higher torque shuts the face, until after impact. I was fit into a low torque shaft by Danny Le for the exact opposite reason, big right miss.

To the OP, if you’ve never tried a UST Helium shaft, that’s one I would highly recommend for you. Lightweight, high torque, but still stable enough you won’t feel like you’ll overpower it. I know several guys that have had the left miss that found it to be a great fit for them.
The Helium has actually been on my mind. I may go demo the Wilson D7 since it's the stock shaft.
 
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