We've launched the new forums! Read more here

More Change the Ball Discussion From Jack...

SuperStroke
blugold

blugold

Autobots, ROLL OUT!
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
63,102
Reaction score
16,261
Location
Appleton, WI
Handicap
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I cannot express how out of touch I believe Jack Nicklaus is with this thought.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/jac...-change-the-frigging-ball?mbid=social_twitter

Jack Nicklaus on golf's distance problem: "Change the frigging ball"

By

Joel Beall

Driving distance on the PGA Tour is reaching historic levels*in 2016. The impact is noticeable throughout the sport, including at Augusta National: The club recently announced it's*lengthening*the historic 13th hole.

Although this discussion isn't new -- remember Tiger-proofing? -- golf's distance problem seems to be reaching heightened levels of unease. Count Jack Nicklaus among the concerned.

And luckily, he has a solution.

"Change the frigging golf ball," the six-time Masters winner said at Augusta National on Tuesday.

Though his response was greeted with laughter, his explanation underlined the issues the game will face going forward.

"The golf ball goes so far, Augusta National is about the only place, the only golf course in the world that financially can afford to make the changes that they have to make to keep up with the golf ball," Nicklaus said. "I don't think anybody else could ever do it.

"I used to be called Big Jack. I'm really huge now, about 5'8". But now the guys are all 6'3", 6'4", 6'5", big long arms, and can hit it nine miles and they just take it right over the top of the trees."

Heading into the Masters, 35 players are averaging over 300 yards on the season. As for the 13th at Augusta National, 20 eagles were recorded at Azalea in 2015, a stalk contrast to the 9.3 average eagle concession from the previous seven years.
Click to expand...

tl/dr: Jack is cranky that modern golfers can hit the ball further than he could.
 
The part that always makes me laugh about Jack as the messenger is that he can DIRECTLY change this but continues to design golf courses that are longer than ever before.
 
The fact that his response was greeted with laughter says a lot.
 
so... low scores are bad?

I don't get it
 
JB said:
The part that always makes me laugh about Jack as the messenger is that he can DIRECTLY change this but continues to design golf courses that are longer than ever before.
Click to expand...
Which one is it Jack?!?!

 
FWIW I agree that there are concerns. My issue is with the messenger. He has the ability to fix this quicker than anybody.
 
He worries about the old records and geography (bigger problem in my opinion considering the operational golf course costs) but the new records are just the nature of the game. The equipment he played with was certainly superior to what Hogan, Snead and other played with. Tiger will complain too at some point!!
 
Nothing but respect for the man, but this is absurd. There will always be technological advances with golf equipment and golf balls. While it can make it easier to score, it's not like players are shooting in the mid 50s.
 
I find it interesting that he seems upset that taller people are playing golf now.

I mean, when he was playing, all 5'6" of Gary Player was still able to beat him from time to time.

I wonder what ball Jack was hitting at last year's par 3 when he was soaking in the cheers following a hole in 1.
 
RNG said:
He worries about the old records and geography (bigger problem in my opinion considering the operational golf course costs) but the new records are just the nature of the game. The equipment he played with was certainly superior to what Hogan, Snead and other played with. Tiger will complain too at some point!!
Click to expand...
Why does anything have to change? Why does my equipment have to change because there are a few PGA Tour players that drive the ball far? Stop changing the game for amateurs because the top pga pros are stupid long.

Also, wasn't the big knock on Jordan Speith last year that he wasn't long enough to stay hot at Augusta?
 
mr.hicksta said:
Nothing but respect for the man, but this is absurd. There will always be technological advances with golf equipment and golf balls. While it can make it easier to score, it's not like players are shooting in the mid 50s.
Click to expand...

Agree. Jack should stay by the sunset. Be more like Arnie.
 
it's an interesting debate, and one that could gain some traction if there is any momentum to bifurcation.

but ultimately i like seeing birdies, i like seeing guys hit balls close to the hole. i've never understood why courses get tricked out just to protect par. who cares what the score ends up being, don't we just care that there is good golf and we find a champion by the end?

the people who want the ball dialed back are the same who beat the drum of lofts being too jacked up and shafts being too long. you want to "protect the game?" go play with featheries, hickory shafts, dress in wool suits, and play sh1tty courses with no maintenance budget because that's how the game was played back in 183nobodygivesash1t.

people stop playing golf because it's not fun for them. i appreciate the greatest golfer of all time hanging up his spikes to be chief of the fun police.
 
Remember too that he's one of the biggest proponents of not having bifurcated rules. Put 2+2 together and his position becomes this: screw the 99.99% of people who are everyday golfers so the top 125 don't make a handful of courses obsolete. Absurd.
 
blugold said:
Why does anything have to change? Why does my equipment have to change because there are a few PGA Tour players that drive the ball far? Stop changing the game for amateurs because the top pga pros are stupid long.

Also, wasn't the big knock on Jordan Speith last year that he wasn't long enough to stay hot at Augusta?
Click to expand...

exactly. if distance was such an advantage, the longest hitters would be winning all the time. but they don't. bombers will win every now and then, and zach johnson or jim furyk will win every now and then.
 
You don't have to make courses longer to take out the long hitters. There are all kinds of ways to defend against the long ball.
 
Jack has been saying this since the mid-80s when I got in the game. Depends what you want out of the game. Personally, I would like to see the ball dialed back. 1) shorter courses are cheaper to build and maintain 2) rounds are quicker and 3) golf is intended to be a game between the course and a player so distance is relative. Being if an architect designed a golf hole to be played driver-long iron yet because of technology it's now driver-wedge then the course is no longer playing to its design.
 
YearWinnerAdjusted Scoring Average
(60 round minimum)		Byron Nelson AwardAdjusted Scoring Average
(50 round minimum)
2015 Jordan Spieth68.91 Jordan Spieth68.91

1947 Jimmy Demaret69.90
 
57Staff said:
Jack has been saying this since the mid-80s when I got in the game. Depends what you want out of the game. Personally, I would like to see the ball dialed back. 1) shorter courses are cheaper to build and maintain 2) rounds are quicker and 3) golf is intended to be a game between the course and a player so distance is relative. Being if an architect designed a golf hole to be played driver-long iron yet because of technology it's now driver-wedge then the course is no longer playing to its design.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with any of this. The best part of it is this...Jack CAN do this very thing right now. He can build shorter courses and/or say "We won't build anything over 6400 yards". Instead, he is continuing to build them at the longest of levels and adding to the clutter of more crowded courses that he openly says cannot survive long term
 
fupresti said:
YearWinnerAdjusted Scoring Average
(60 round minimum)		Byron Nelson AwardAdjusted Scoring Average
(50 round minimum)
2015 Jordan Spieth68.91 Jordan Spieth68.91

1947 Jimmy Demaret69.90
Click to expand...

But I am not sure that is as relevant because courses are significantly longer.
 
tequila4kapp said:
Remember too that he's one of the biggest proponents of not having bifurcated rules. Put 2+2 together and his position becomes this: screw the 99.99% of people who are everyday golfers so the top 125 don't make a handful of courses obsolete. Absurd.
Click to expand...
To me, it feels like a man watching many young people overshadow his accomplishments with advantages he didn't have.

It's Boarderline sad to me
 
Jack's comments always make me laugh. Guy gets paid like 3m a course and he complains about the length. Yeah guys now hit it a heck of a long way but they're shooting under par so much because the greens are so much more consistent than they were in his day.
 
MWard said:
Jack's comments always make me laugh. Guy gets paid like 3m a course and he complains about the length. Yeah guys now hit it a heck of a long way but they're shooting under par so much because the greens are so much more consistent than they were in his day.
Click to expand...
It's pretty lazy of a course designer to use length as the primary factor in difficulty.

Merion Country Club laughs at the concept.
 
blugold said:
It's pretty lazy of a course designer to use length as the primary factor in difficulty.

Merion Country Club laughs at the concept.
Click to expand...

Im not sure I agree with this overall.
If you are searching for a new course, and look it up and see the course only plays 6100 from the back tees, you probably don't head there.
Its about education and re-education, but its an easy fix by making the rules separate.
 
I think what he is saying and was said earlier in this thread is that courses are not being played the way they were designed to be played. I have no problem with that. I don't think he is jealous of anyone and how far they can hit the ball, he is Jack.

As a course designer this is probably frustrating for him to see. I also don't think that he has the ability to change this just by designing a shorter course. So he goes and builds a 6600 yard course from the tips. Does that mean TM, Nike, Titleist, etc. is going to come out with a ball that goes 80% of the distance of a modern ball? Don't think so. And would anyone buy the ball??

I can understand his frustration, don't think anything is going to change anytime soon, and have no problem with him voicing his opinion.
 
A course designer will build the type of course that his client wants and can afford. I don't have any problem with low scores but I have problem with golf getting more and more expensive with bigger courses maintenance fees and greater amount of irrigating water needed.
one day or another we will have to play golf on courses like they did in the sixties.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top