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Teeing ground definition

OGputtnfool

OGputtnfool

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Ok, so I realize my drawing isn't precise, but I think it gets the point across. If you found the markers set st an angle, would you measure your 2 club lengths back inline away from the hole or straight back from the markers?
a37ae14d2296b178b61e8b7a33783f72.jpg


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• The front edge is defined by the line between the forward-most points of two tee-markers set by the Committee, and
• The side edges are defined by the lines back from the outside points of the tee-markers.

Given the definition, the hole location is not relevant.
 
nogophers said:
•The front edge is defined by the line between the forward-most points of two tee-markers set by the Committee, and
•The side edges are defined by the lines back from the outside points of the tee-markers.

Given the definition, the hole location is not relevant.
Click to expand...
I know. So, assuming a round marker, where is the front of the marker?

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OGputtnfool said:
I know. So, assuming a round marker, where is the front of the marker?

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Click to expand...

177_1.0.svg


Same concept as the squares - use the outermost point.
 
-CRW- said:
177_1.0.svg


Same concept as the squares - use the outermost point.
Click to expand...
Sides are defined by the outside points. Front is defined by the forward most point. The question is... forward in relation to what?

Given the two "tee boxes" I drew on the first pic, whichbwould you use?

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Are you looking at like a parallelogram shaped teebox vs a rectangle?

I always just try to make sure I'm behind the straight line from marker to marker. I don't go back much unless it's a par 3 I'm in between clubs on. on a side note, I do hate when they set the markers aimed way away from the fairway.
 
checkered said:
Are you looking at like a parallelogram shaped teebox vs a rectangle?

I always just try to make sure I'm behind the straight line from marker to marker. I don't go back much unless it's a par 3 I'm in between clubs on. on a side note, I do hate when they set the markers aimed way away from the fairway.
Click to expand...
Basically, yeah.

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Even if markers are at a crazy 45* angle, you make the parallelogram where the sides of the teeing ground are parallel with a line toward the green. And the front/back are parallel with a line between the 2 markers.
 
checkered said:
Are you looking at like a parallelogram shaped teebox vs a rectangle?

I always just try to make sure I'm behind the straight line from marker to marker. I don't go back much unless it's a par 3 I'm in between clubs on. on a side note, I do hate when they set the markers aimed way away from the fairway.
Click to expand...

The best is when the grounds crew forgets to return the markers after mowing. So all sitting in a pile beside the tee box. I always just place them somewhere near where they were piled. When at a crazy angle I actually will hit, then move them so that they’re perpendicular to the line of play.
 
oiler3535 said:
Even if markers are at a crazy 45* angle, you make the parallelogram where the sides of the teeing ground are parallel with a line toward the green. And the front/back are parallel with a line between the 2 markers.
Click to expand...
This is what I would have done, too, until about an hour ago. The RoG define the teeing ground as a rectangle, not a parallelogram


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oiler3535 said:
The best is when the grounds crew forgets to return the markers after mowing. So all sitting in a pile beside the tee box. I always just place them somewhere near where they were piled. When at a crazy angle I actually will hit, then move them so that they’re perpendicular to the line of play.
Click to expand...
Yep, I put the blue and white markers out one day so that the teeing grounds overlapped.

Blue white
White blue

I figured it was the least I could do to make up for the lazy grounds crew.

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OGputtnfool said:
This is what I would have done, too, until about an hour ago. The RoG define the teeing ground as a rectangle, not a parallelogram


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Click to expand...

Problem is that then it would be mathematically impossible to have a teeing ground. I’ve got a level 4 official I chat with on twitter. I’m gonna ask :)
 
oiler3535 said:
Problem is that then it would be mathematically impossible to have a teeing ground.
Click to expand...
Why?

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OGputtnfool said:
Why?

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Click to expand...

Says must be a rectangle, but also that the sides of the rectangle are to be 2 club lengths “back” from the direction of play (to combine a bit the written definition and helping diagrams). If the markers aren’t perpendicular to play, a rectangle isn’t possible.

The teeing area is a rectangle that is two club-lengths deep where:
  • The front edge is defined by the line between the forward-most points of two tee-markers set by the Committee, and
  • The side edges are defined by the lines back from the outside points of the tee-markers.
 
oiler3535 said:
Says must be a rectangle, but also that the sides of the rectangle are to be 2 club lengths “back” from the direction of play (to combine a bit the written definition and helping diagrams). If the markers aren’t perpendicular to play, a rectangle isn’t possible.

The teeing area is a rectangle that is two club-lengths deep where:
  • The front edge is defined by the line between the forward-most points of two tee-markers set by the Committee, and
  • The side edges are defined by the lines back from the outside points of the tee-markers.
Click to expand...
That definition does not reference the line of play at all.

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OGputtnfool said:
That definition does not reference the line of play at all.

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Click to expand...

It’s not in the written rule, but the diagram (somebody showed it above) has the direction of play specifically marked. Which makes me think when it says ‘back’ in the definition it means ‘back along the line of play’. Will be curious to hear from my rules guy.
 
oiler3535 said:
It’s not in the written rule, but the diagram (somebody showed it above) has the direction of play specifically marked. Which makes me think when it says ‘back’ in the definition it means ‘back along the line of play’. Will be curious to hear from my rules guy.
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Ok. I can't see the pic posted by (I think) CRW. Anyone can make up a diagram, and assuming the USGA did it, I'd bet they'd illustrate it with tee markers that are aimed down the line of play. I doubt the USGA has to deal often with idiot ground crews that have no idea how to set up a course.

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OGputtnfool said:
Ok. I can't see the pic posted by (I think) CRW. Anyone can make up a diagram, and assuming the USGA did it, I'd bet they'd illustrate it with tee markers that are aimed down the line of play. I doubt the USGA has to deal often with idiot ground crews that have no idea how to set up a course.

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Click to expand...

Ya. That diagram is straight from the USGA rulebook.
 
oiler3535 said:
Ya. That diagram is straight from the USGA rulebook.
Click to expand...
Ok, but it's a diagram showing a possible setup, not a mandatory setup. The OP was specifically referring to when the tee markers are set at an angle to the "line of play".

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oiler3535 said:
It’s not in the written rule, but the diagram (somebody showed it above) has the direction of play specifically marked. Which makes me think when it says ‘back’ in the definition it means ‘back along the line of play’. Will be curious to hear from my rules guy.
Click to expand...


Your rules guy is going to tell you the line of play has no bearing on the definition of the teeing area. It is defined by the outside edges of the tee markers and two club lengths back. It is a rectangle, not a parallelogram. The tee markers could be pointed 75-degrees "offline" and still be correct.

Additionally, in tournament play, if you feel the tee markers are set wrong, you may not move them to what you feel the correct position should have been. You must contact a member of the committee to do it.
 
wadesworld said:
Your rules guy is going to tell you the line of play has no bearing on the definition of the teeing area. It is defined by the outside edges of the tee markers and two club lengths back. It is a rectangle, not a parallelogram. The tee markers could be pointed 75-degrees "offline" and still be correct.

Additionally, in tournament play, if you feel the tee markers are set wrong, you may not move them to what you feel the correct position should have been. You must contact a member of the committee to do it.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I thought the picture would have been clear enough.

The “line of play” has nothing to do with the green or pin. It has to do with how the markers are set up.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Ok, but it's a diagram showing a possible setup, not a mandatory setup. The OP was specifically referring to when the tee markers are set at an angle to the "line of play".

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Click to expand...

And I was using the diagram purely as a way to explain why ‘back’ could mean from direction of play. But I heard from my rules guy and always a rectangle for sure. Even if the markers are 90* to the side, rectangle still (though then I’d be curious which side lol).

wadesworld said:
Your rules guy is going to tell you the line of play has no bearing on the definition of the teeing area. It is defined by the outside edges of the tee markers and two club lengths back. It is a rectangle, not a parallelogram. The tee markers could be pointed 75-degrees "offline" and still be correct.

Additionally, in tournament play, if you feel the tee markers are set wrong, you may not move them to what you feel the correct position should have been. You must contact a member of the committee to do it.
Click to expand...

Ya, I wouldn’t move the markers in a tournament. Only for day to day play. Plus, out here in the boonies for most course tournies there is no ‘committee’ it’s the grounds crew puts them where they want. Would be a fun comversation: call the pro shop and tell them they’re not on the tee box. Nobody would have a clue what to do. I guarantee they’d say just put them out.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Yep, I put the blue and white markers out one day so that the teeing grounds overlapped.

Blue white
White blue

I figured it was the least I could do to make up for the lazy grounds crew.

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Click to expand...

was playing in a tournament not long ago, they designate certain tournaments "majors" and award double points. This was one of those. You are supposed to select your tee box based on handicap, with high cappers playing from the whites, low cappers from the blues. For the majors, they just move each box back, so the whites were all supposed to be where the blues typically play and the blues moved back to where the black tees generally are. Shotgun start. So we go rolling out to our designated hole...and they grounds crew had put the whites where the blacks typically would be and the blues where the whites should go. On a par 5. In the group I was in, it is questionable if the other three guys could have all gotten it to the ladies tees from there on their best drive.


We called the tournament director who came out and fixed it fortunately but...
 
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