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Thread: Is pace of play *actually* hurting the game?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by braddman19 View Post
    Does it keep me from going to certain courses, because I know the rounds become 5-6 hour rounds? For sure.
    But it sounds like it doesn't keep you from playing, or turn you away from the game permanently, thus not contributing to the decline.

    Posted by my thumbs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post

    I also have friends who have given up playing because their wife doesn't like they are gone all morning and well into the afternoon.
    Woof. That's a crazy thought for me. I feel for those guys.

    Posted by my thumbs.
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    I'm envious of many of you in this thread. My normal round is around 4 and a half hours. I can live with that but if its 5 and half to six hours I'm out.

    For most of the courses in my area you just can't play through, there is a foursome on every hole. Maybe not in the afternoon in the summertime, but then you have to play in 110 degree heat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEV View Post
    I'm about as passionate about golf as anyone but I've decided not to play because I knew it would take too long. I've also walked off at the turn because it was taking too long and the group ahead wouldn't let me through. I completely understand that golf is a game that is going to take a significant amount of time, but it's getting to be too much. About the only time I'll play anymore is if I'm one of the first tee times so we can move at a good pace. It's tough for me to be away from my family for so long, especially when I have other things to do around the house.
    This is interesting, Kev. Question for you: since seemingly nothing can be done to completely eliminate pace of play issues across the sport, do you consider deciding not to play at all (vs going somewhere with a more open tee sheet) also contributing to the decline in the sport?

    I fully understand the outside responsibility aspect of some of these arguments, but I'm thinking more along the lines of not playing even if you have a wide open day just because it may be slow.

    Posted by my thumbs.
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    From 2011 to 2017, golf lost 1.9 million participants.
    Consumer satisfaction surveys, according to Golf Advisor revealed the two most important items that keep people from playing. Course Conditions and Pace of Play.

    Both of these topics were big pieces at the 2019 Golf Innovation Symposium in Tokyo as they look towards technology trends as a way to speed up play. Measuring data and how they can better manage full courses, that have tee times faster than golfers are playing holes. Tee it Forward has not worked despite a huge campaign. It is taking golfers 12 minutes on average to play a par 4. When tee time intervals are less than that, and just about every course in the country is, that becomes a problem for pace.
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  9. #36
    Member of the 'Eh Team braddman19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmm21 View Post
    But it sounds like it doesn't keep you from playing, or turn you away from the game permanently, thus not contributing to the decline.

    Posted by my thumbs.
    But everything contributes to the decline. Saying pace doesn't glosses over the issue. ANYTHING that is a potential trigger for someone not to go to pick up the clubs contributes.

    Is Pace the sole factor? Definitely not. Neglected courses, jerk staff, poor ammenities, an overall unfavorable experience..... they all play a part.
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    It’s a problem and the main reason I don’t play on weekends. The other afternoon I played and brought my 6yr old daughter. She hit some balls on the fairway and putted almost every one. I played a full 18 and she just played and had fun. We finished in 3 hrs. It’s a great sport and I love it but should not be over 4:30-5:00 max. Around here it seems the courses are scared to enforce anything as would offend the players and they would leave bad reviews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by braddman19 View Post
    But everything contributes to the decline. Saying pace doesn't glosses over the issue. ANYTHING that is a potential trigger for someone not to go to pick up the clubs contributes.

    Is Pace the sole factor? Definitely not. Neglected courses, jerk staff, poor ammenities, an overall unfavorable experience..... they all play a part.
    Could't agree more. I don't see a push from the governing bodies and networks asking pro shop staff to be nicer to guests, or to greens keepers to not cut holes on crowns....I slightly suspect that pitting the blame on the consumer is motivated by money.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pmm21 View Post
    Could't agree more. I don't see a push from the governing bodies and networks asking pro shop staff to be nicer to guests, or to greens keepers to not cut holes on crowns....I slightly suspect that pitting the blame on the consumer is motivated by money.


    Posted by my thumbs.
    I agree with this. Between management companies and online booking agents, the experience wanes. With that said as the link above illustrates, nobody ever thinks they are slow so that is part of the problem.

    Play slow and hold up the whole course and what are the ramifications? A powerless ranger chirping at someone twice in 5.5 hours? Literally no penalty at all for killing a course for a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmm21 View Post
    This is interesting, Kev. Question for you: since seemingly nothing can be done to completely eliminate pace of play issues across the sport, do you consider deciding not to play at all (vs going somewhere with a more open tee sheet) also contributing to the decline in the sport?

    I fully understand the outside responsibility aspect of some of these arguments, but I'm thinking more along the lines of not playing even if you have a wide open day just because it may be slow.

    Posted by my thumbs.
    I would agree that me not going to play definitely contributes to the decline in the sport, and that's exactly why something needs to be done. Unfortunately for us there is no open tee sheet in the area, the courses are almost always packed. It's a good problem to have but it's a huge problem when someone like me, who absolutely loves the game of golf, would rather sit out a round than spend that much time playing.

    Even if my day is completely open I struggle with sitting and waiting in between every. single. shot. Maybe my attention span is too short but I just don't enjoy sitting and waiting every hole.
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  16. #41
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    I can only say that, for me at least, I may not "hurt the game" as much as others.

    I belong to a private course where a long round is 4:15 or so. I prefer to play in 3:45 or so as a foursome. Not super fast but certainly not slow.

    Because I am relatively spoiled----there are times when I refuse to play a public course because I'm fairly certain it will take longer.

    I've experienced a few 4:30+ rounds and just find myself not having fun.

    So I guess I would otherwise spend a few more dollars/month supporting public golf tracks if pace were better.

    Does my personal bias "hurt golf"?

    Probably only marginally

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    I grew up watching test cricket which takes 5 days .. so I think golf is a fast sport.

    Kidding aside, I really don't think it hurts the PGA guys. They are used to playing this pace right from the start and taking their own time on shots.

    I do think it hurts the growth of the game as most amateurs play for fun. Or to get better at the game. They have to make time during their work/school/weekends to go out and play. The last thing anyone wants to do in those conditions is wait 5-10 minutes before tee-ing off on every hole. This is the kind of stuff that could turn people away from the game and look for other means of enjoyment. If you are not enjoying yourself, 5-6 hours is a massive amount of time to marinate in anger and frustration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Yes it is a problem. Itís less about the ďIím going to be gone for an extra 30 minutesĒ than it is the ďIím going to waste a day playing golf when half of the time is waiting for the group in front of me to speed up.

    People donít like to sit and wait 5-10 between shots. If it took 5 hours but was steadily moving, the pace would not be an issue.
    I agree with this 100% but would also be curious what it does to courses? If weekend morning round takes 4 hours vs 4:30 vs 5 hours how many more rounds/how much more revenue could they bring in? Not too mention how many people won't return to a course if they have had a bad experience (I have this feeling about several courses in the area due to slow play) impacting repeat business.

    Growing the game is a lot harder if you don't retain the people that already play it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmm21 View Post
    Links to surveys? I'm really curious who is touting the information. I think if you use this thread as a "survey" you'd see different responses.

    And my house to rustic canyon (where I play often is 14 miles. It takes me 12 minutes.

    Posted by my thumbs.
    people who don't golf, with one of the reasons being the time consumption, probably aren't going to posting in this thread - or using this site to begin with
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  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by aljaklaw View Post
    people who don't golf, with one of the reasons being the time consumption, probably aren't going to posting in this thread - or using this site to begin with
    True. Do you know anyone who cites pace of play as their reason for not taking up the sport? Most of my non-playing friends say they find don't find it interesting, or they fear they'd be no good. Others flat out don't like sports.

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