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Thread: Slow Play Ranting: Golf Unfiltered

  1. #31
    Club Pro echico's Avatar
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    Its hard to blame course management when its the golfers that are at fault. If you roll up to a group and tell them they are out of position I have seen more than 1 person freak out on the ranger. You can't tell someone they are slow. These golfers then go on social media or yelp or golf adviser and start to bad mouth the course. If my group tells another group they are slow that could lead to fights, we have seen articles with guns and violence at the golf course. It is easier just to stew in your cart then to risk nonsense.

    I thought maybe there should be a requirement when making a tee time that you acknowledge the course pace and are subject to be moved if you are a pace issue. I then think when you pay you should sign again that you agree to being moved if you are the issue. It shows that the course is serious but again can we expect retired rangers enforce these policies. Does this make the course elitist, will it turn off golfers to making a tee time? Maybe make the requirement for tee times from open - 11AM on weekends. If your course is serious about pace then they have to be serious the entire time you are on the property. There are many times that I never see a ranger the entire time I am on a course.

    As far and inexperienced golfers playing, we all should make it easy on them to come back and get better. I have gotten paired with families with kids, guys taking a date out for the first time, first time golfers, etc. I have no problem watching their ball, helping them find balls, leaving them alone when they need to be alone, and generally moving along pace. We all started somewhere and have all had bad holes/rounds so there is no reason to alienate newcomers. Most times when I play with newcomers they feel anxious that they are going to be in the way so I encourage them to play their game and ignore me.
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  3. #32
    Drummin' for golf Drumdog's Avatar
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    This tired subject is always up for debate on the causes for slow play.
    I can't disagree more with Adam on the hdcp requirement for tee times.
    I do agree with all of the different reasons on the slow play.
    It is a combination of all of them. Will this ever change? I doubt it.
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  4. #33
    Major Champion jim54's Avatar
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    Couple of observations from the peanut gallery.

    we played in a format on 4th of July with mixed tees and handicap groups and in our group the best player was by far the slowest and not by a small margin, we all waited for him and on the greens he was especially slow. Now he made just about everything he looked at so his method worked for him.

    I normally play with older golfers but usually very early so a 3-3.5 hr round is common so age has nothing to do with it and again mixed handicaps.

    The arguement that it is high caps slowing things down seems like a easy way out for the better slow players to justify their own faults, sure some are slow but from my experience the higher caps are mostly very aware of their game and try very hard to keep up and move things along.
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  6. #34
    Major Champion DG_1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldeDude View Post
    . A large percentage of "high handicappers" have been playing the game long enough to have the knowledge and awareness to play at a good pace.
    What you wrote should be true, but (for whatever reason) most don't have the knowledge or awareness.
    One course I play often has a couple of dozen high handicap men's club members who have each played golf for more than thirty years. They stand or sit while others play shots (instead of going directly to their own ball), they park their carts (or leave their push carts) in spots where they must back track to retrieve same, they don't know to let a group behind them play thru (when there are open holes ahead). In other words,despite having been on golf courses for decades, they never learned golf etiquette and, or, good golf sense.
    Probably everybody here at THP knows it's common for people to play golf for 20 or 30 years and still be a high handicap. This happens because a person chooses to not learn swing technique or practice, or they don't have the time or money to do that, or they just like being out in the fresh air with friends and don't care if they duff shots and shoot high scores etc.... These are just a few of many possible reasons people can play golf for many years yet remain a high handicap.
    So if we agree it is common for long time players to duff shots, shoot high scores, and have high handicaps, it should be obvious that most of those same players likely have never learned or practiced good golf etiquette.
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  7. #35
    Blogger Person golfunfiltered's Avatar
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    Lot's of great comments here. Keep them coming!

    Overall, I think there are multiple variables that compound the issue. A day at the golf course is really just one big conveyor belt process from the perspective of the golf course. Because of that, bottlenecks are always a risk.

    In order for tee times to run smoothly, a lot of factors have to go well without any slow down. If I remember correctly, the course I talked about in the episode was running at 7-minute tee times. That obviously was not appropriate for this day at that course.

    I still contend that the issue(s) are all related to a combination of skill level and etiquette. Good players can be slow, and bad players can be fast. Four hours should be an ideal time to shoot for, regardless of course difficulty (preferably finishing sooner). Whatever needs to happen to make that the norm for ANY golfer, I'm in favor.
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  8. #36
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    I should also state that this is another way current golfers are extremely unwelcoming to new comers to the sport. We want more golfers so more courses stay open, but when we show up at the course we want it to be empty. Part of a vibrant and growing sport is going to be crowds. New golfers have to learn how to play so that means getting out on the course and playing. Until they are good enough they are going to be a little slow, but that is part of the learning process.
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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DataDude View Post
    . New golfers have to learn how to play so that means getting out on the course and playing. Until they are good enough they are going to be a little slow, but that is part of the learning process.
    Yes and no. For example, if driving ranges and par 3 courses are available to the player, that is where he/she will likely best learn the skills to strike good playable shots as well as etiquette.
    I would bet that if Tour players were polled, about 75% of them would say their first years in golf were spent on driving ranges and par 3 courses.
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  11. #38
    Major Champion radiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG_1234 View Post
    Yes and no. For example, if driving ranges and par 3 courses are available to the player, that is where he/she will likely best learn the skills to strike good playable shots as well as etiquette.
    I would bet that if Tour players were polled, about 75% of them would say their first years in golf were spent on driving ranges and par 3 courses.
    It is a noble idea. But, around these parts, there is only one par 3 course. And, it is overrun with retirees who are not very welcoming to new players. Plus, who is going to stick with the game if they never get to go to the actual course. In regards to tour players, I would wager that most of them were in their early teens when they started shooting par or better. They had been on the course with formal lessons and being groomed at a very young age. Always exceptions to the rule, but their golf upbringing is going to be a heck of a lot different than your average weekend warrior.
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    A lot of things contribute to it. A few in no particular order

    1) Lack of accountability. That was 1 nice thing about private courses, if you were slow and held up the course, you know you would hear about it from the other members immediately after the round or the next time you saw them etc. At public courses, people have no relationships with each other and don't care what others think about them.

    2) Beverage carts.

    3) Tee times too close together

    4) No marshals or marshals that won't do anything.

    5) Players who feel/believe "I paid for my tee time, I'll take as long as I damn well want."

    6) I could go on and on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lions81 View Post
    A lot of things contribute to it. A few in no particular order

    1) Lack of accountability. That was 1 nice thing about private courses, if you were slow and held up the course, you know you would hear about it from the other members immediately after the round or the next time you saw them etc. At public courses, people have no relationships with each other and don't care what others think about them.

    2) Beverage carts.

    3) Tee times too close together

    4) No marshals or marshals that won't do anything.

    5) Players who feel/believe "I paid for my tee time, I'll take as long as I damn well want."

    6) I could go on and on.
    This is a pretty darn good list. I will add that it is very hard for a golfer to speed up, when nobody believes they are slow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by radiman View Post
    It is a noble idea. But, around these parts, there is only one par 3 course. And, it is overrun with retirees who are not very welcoming to new players. Plus, who is going to stick with the game if they never get to go to the actual course. .
    Well, if there is no par 3 course available (or if for some reason it is not accessible) , then I think the next best strategy is lots of driving range practice time, including lessons (either from a book, or video or actual local instructor).
    And if the beginner wants to supplement range time learning with some time on a full length regulation course, that's fine as long as he/she picks up the ball whenever he/she falls behind within his own group and, or, when his group falls behind the group ahead of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by radiman View Post
    It is a noble idea. But, around these parts, there is only one par 3 course. And, it is overrun with retirees who are not very welcoming to new players. Plus, who is going to stick with the game if they never get to go to the actual course. In regards to tour players, I would wager that most of them were in their early teens when they started shooting par or better. They had been on the course with formal lessons and being groomed at a very young age. Always exceptions to the rule, but their golf upbringing is going to be a heck of a lot different than your average weekend warrior.
    Nothing says grow the game and be inclusive like telling anybody new to it, you are not allowed to play
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  20. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Nothing says grow the game and be inclusive like telling anybody new to it, you are not allowed to play
    Well, telling newcomers to "go get fit" and, or, "buy a new set of clubs" has not been working too well.
    Maybe those who claim they want to "grow the game" (such as club manufacturers, fit shops etc..) would serve new players best by promoting that instruction and practice will help them strike better shots and have more fun ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    This is a pretty darn good list. I will add that it is very hard for a golfer to speed up, when nobody believes they are slow.
    Honestly, to me, people who don't realize they are slow are not nearly as bad as those who know they are slow and still don't give a **it. They are the worst.

    I remember when we played Bellerive as a 5 some in 3 hrs. Sign me up for that pace of play all the time and Ill be happy. Haha.

    Slow pace of play drives me off the wall. Its the worst thing about golf.
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    Major Champion radiman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG_1234 View Post
    Well, if there is no par 3 course available (or if for some reason it is not accessible) , then I think the next best strategy is lots of driving range practice time, including lessons (either from a book, or video or actual local instructor).
    And if the beginner wants to supplement range time learning with some time on a full length regulation course, that's fine as long as he/she picks up the ball whenever he/she falls behind within his own group and, or, when his group falls behind the group ahead of them.
    That would be ideal. But, I don't feel like there's a concise message being delivered. Maybe the USGA can add onto their tee it forward campaign and add a "That's enough shots, just pick up your ball and go" campaign next :)

    At the end of the day, there are so many contributing factors. We could go back and forth until we are blue in the face and still not have a perfect solution. I personally feel that if a course was really that concerned over pace of play, they would do something about it. But, when their tee sheets are packed, their beverage carts are bringing in $$, I think they would be hard pressed to admit to any issues at all. The cycle goes round and round.
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