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Hitting Out of a Divot Issue

Canadan said:
I guess my point was more "why go halfway with it" rather than just making divots GUR.

At least on greens you can repair the ground to original condition before playing your ball.
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Good point. I would obviously be fine with a GUR designation.
 
After watching Woodland hit out of 2 massive divots in the US Open & stick both onto the green w/ great shots, I feel we all need to do the same.....at the very least for our manhood. Thanks a lot Woody!!
 
John Rahm was just in Spain playing 4 rounds in the Andalucia Masters then takes the flight to play in this?

Jeez talk about dedication to Golf.


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I've never understood the discussion and, or, concern about playing from divots. Often times it's a clean lie, easy to get the club head on the ball, more so even than a clean fairway lie.
The suggestion proposing "relief from divots" is absurd. There is no sensible way to easily define a divot , to differentiate it from the ground's other common scars , and, or marks .
In general I believe golf balls in the rough, sloped, side hill and other common "non ideal" lies create more of a challenge to good shot making than a standard ball within a divot lie.
 
DG_1234 said:
I've never understood the discussion and, or, concern about playing from divots. Often times it's a clean lie, easy to get the club head on the ball, more so even than a clean fairway lie.
The suggestion proposing "relief from divots" is absurd. There is no sensible way to easily define a divot , to differentiate it from the ground's other common scars , and, or marks .
In general I believe golf balls in the rough, sloped, side hill and other common "non ideal" lies create more of a challenge to good shot making than a standard ball within a divot lie.
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You're either an honest golfer, or you're not. There's no blurred lines.

Divots are super easy to define. If it's too hard to tell, sounds to me like you're not in a divot. Those who would cheat that would cheat other things anyways. Who cares.
 
DG_1234 said:
I've never understood the discussion and, or, concern about playing from divots. Often times it's a clean lie, easy to get the club head on the ball, more so even than a clean fairway lie.
The suggestion proposing "relief from divots" is absurd. There is no sensible way to easily define a divot , to differentiate it from the ground's other common scars , and, or marks .
In general I believe golf balls in the rough, sloped, side hill and other common "non ideal" lies create more of a challenge to good shot making than a standard ball within a divot lie.
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Depending on where you are located in the world and what kind of grass/turf you typically play on, this issue can be vastly different. You can take absolute pelts in the Midwest when it’s soft. There is no mistaking if you find yourself in an un-filled or un-replaced one of those.

I’m actually fine in general with hitting out of divots if they are shallow or sensibly repaired. However I have seen divots that would be quite difficult to ever get the clubhead behind because they are so deep. That, to me, is not part of the plan just because someone decided they were too good or too busy to do something about.
 
I had not thought of the option of filling in a divot with sand, replacing the ball in that same spot and hitting from there. That would eliminate the "when is a divot no longer a divot" discussion. If you even think your ball is in a divot you fill the depression with sand, replace and go from there. People at the public course I play are poor about filling divots. I empty a sand bottle just about every 9 holes. Some never get filled in, are still depressions in the ground but now there is grass growing in them. Is every depression, is every time a part of the ball sits below the surrounding surface is it in a divot? Filling with sand and proceeding would solve the issue, would it not?
 
I'm pretty torn with this one. From one side, it's unfair that a good shot down the middle of the fairway gets rewarded because someone failed to repair a divot. Looking at it that way, should a divot be GUR? However, it has to work both ways. How many times have we had a good break, where the ball is heading towards the woods, bounces off a tree and back into the fairway? Should we then pick that ball out of the fairway and through it into the trees again because that was what the shot deserved?
Sadly as much as I hate being in divots, I can't see any way of altering things that will make the majority happy.
 
How did they know it was the same divot?
 
It's a bad break but play it as it lies. The player damaging the course should be DQ'd. Same deal as when Sergio damaged the greens in Saudi Arabia.
 
Canadan said:
You're either an honest golfer, or you're not. There's no blurred lines.

Divots are super easy to define. If it's too hard to tell, sounds to me like you're not in a divot. Those who would cheat that would cheat other things anyways. Who cares.
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At least I'm an admitted cheat!
 
cbaker2882 said:
Depending on where you are located in the world and what kind of grass/turf you typically play on, this issue can be vastly different. You can take absolute pelts in the Midwest when it’s soft. There is no mistaking if you find yourself in an un-filled or un-replaced one of those.

I’m actually fine in general with hitting out of divots if they are shallow or sensibly repaired. However I have seen divots that would be quite difficult to ever get the clubhead behind because they are so deep. That, to me, is not part of the plan just because someone decided they were too good or too busy to do something about.
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Obviously, it's easy to identify a new divot, one that is only a few days old. But the lifespan of a divot (before it is completely gone and unrecognizable) can be weeks, and as such enacting a Rule for relief from divots would be like opening a can of worms.
 
HarlettoScara said:
I'm pretty torn with this one. From one side, it's unfair that a good shot down the middle of the fairway gets rewarded because someone failed to repair a divot. Looking at it that way, should a divot be GUR? However, it has to work both ways. How many times have we had a good break, where the ball is heading towards the woods, bounces off a tree and back into the fairway? Should we then pick that ball out of the fairway and through it into the trees again because that was what the shot deserved?
Sadly as much as I hate being in divots, I can't see any way of altering things that will make the majority happy.
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Just for argument's sake, I'll opine on this. I propose that if you get a lucky bounce of a tree it is NOT the same as the bad break of the divot. The tree was designed to be part of the course. A gouge in the fairway was not an intended part of the course, and should therefore not be a penalizing situation.
 
Unfortunate rule that everyone needs to abide by, if you are going to play by the rules to begin with. Divots suck for sure but it doesn't matter if it was made 5 minutes before you or 5 days ago.

I also find it odd & nearly impossible that he hit into the exact divot that he had just made. I mean was it a trench all the way across the fairway? I can stand on the tee with a bucket of balls & never be able to hit into someone's exact divot they just made.
 
I’m just not a fan of being penalized by hitting a good drive in the fairway and having to hit out of someone else’s turf interaction period- whether it be by shot or anger. Greens can be repaired... the rules should be changed where divots should be repaired and if not, then lift clean and place should be used. It’s ground under repair. To those that say well “that’s just the way it is”... it doesn’t have to be and shouldn’t be that way. Common sense...

But back to the original question. Let the person drop, it’s all for fun anyways. The favor may come back around to you at some point!


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JB said:
So I was emailed by a father today that played in a father and son event at his local course. They were the 3rd group out and the event was the first to go out in the morning. One of the participants in the first two groups went Jon Rahm on the fairway after a bad shot and took a giant divot out of the turf after his bad swing (allegedly). This participant's drive landed in it.

What should he do?
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Was the divot from his swing or did the player damage the course in anger after the bad swing?
 
Hit the ball.

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If it looks like a divot I don’t see how you can move it if they’re abiding by the rules. That said whoever was playing with that twosome should report the offending player.
 
Hamfist said:
Just for argument's sake, I'll opine on this. I propose that if you get a lucky bounce of a tree it is NOT the same as the bad break of the divot. The tree was designed to be part of the course. A gouge in the fairway was not an intended part of the course, and should therefore not be a penalizing situation.
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It's likely no one would argue with your point about lucky breaks or bad bounces etc...
But the reason divots are not permitted relief is that they are too difficult to easily define. For example, a 1 day old divot appears far different than a 2 week old divot, which is different from a one month old divot, yet they are all divots. So, it's not possible for the Rules of Golf to provide a definition for a divot.
 
Yeah bent is nothing like the divots you pour sand on. I have had a few bad breaks where the ball was up against the back of a deep divot where you can only hit the top third of the ball. Those are the ones everyone in the NE complains about. Sand ones still suck but not as much depending on how compacted it is. The more horrendous the lie the more I probably play as is for the comedy of it all.
 
DG_1234 said:
It's likely no one would argue with your point about lucky breaks or bad bounces etc...
But the reason divots are not permitted relief is that they are too difficult to easily define. For example, a 1 day old divot appears far different than a 2 week old divot, which is different from a one month old divot, yet they are all divots. So, it's not possible for the Rules of Golf to provide a definition for a divot.
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Sand filled with seed are hard to define after a week. A pelt of bent missing is very easy and doesn't really grow back when people are too lazy to walk 15 yards and replace it. By the time they get replaced the grass is dead if it takes a day.
 
In casual play who cares? Do what you want

In a tournament, it's a terrible lie, but play the ball where it is.

People who take a beaver tail in the fairway should replace it if it's the right kind of grass. If it's Bermudagrass you have to fill the divot and your cart should have the fill mix on it.

I think the rule should be changed to treat one as GUR. But where do you draw the line? If the grass is starting to fill in the divot at what point is it no longer a divot? The USGA and R&A will have to figure that out. Apparently this isn't that important to them. They'd rather go after stuff that helps old people score better, like anchored strokes.
 
He should do the right thing and follow the rules. Play it as it lies.

That's a bad break for him though and hopefully he filled in the divot after he hit.
 
Canadan said:
Yeah... but...

Why not just get full relief from a divot?
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One of the main impediments to the USGA altering the divot/play it as it lies rule is who decides what a divot is? One player asks for relief from a true divot, the next doesn't like how the grass is sticking up so he declares it a divot (an old one that has partially grown back). So now we have to set rules on the dimensions of a divot....or how much grass has been removed, etc. Can't be done.
 
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