We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Am I an A-hole?

Grins said:
I don't think you should feel like a jerk to be keeping track of his score on your card - as long as it doesn't affect your game or your own mental well-being. Nothing wrong with knowing what his actual score should be.

For me, I think keeping someone else's score like that would become a detriment to my enjoying my own round. Maybe you could do this for a few rounds, take the average "difference" between his real score and what he claims, and now you have his...maybe call it his "ASC" (Asshole Stroke Control). Then you can just add these 20-30+ strokes to his announced score at the end of each round and be pretty close to the real score without the hassle of tracking what he does.

You can joke about doing this to your own scores: "I had a 6. That's a 4 with ASC."

As long as you enjoy playing with him and want to keep playing with him, go for it. The slow play thing would wear on me though.
Click to expand...
This is a really good idea. I love the ASC!

Posted by my thumbs.
 
For the honor of the game and your sanity:

Mark your ball for ID purposes and keep his score.

There is absolutely no way I would put up with this guy saying he beat me. He will figure it out one day or find someone else to play with on his own who also will call him on it.

Don't beat yourself up over this guy. The game is supposed to be fun.
 
If you want to ruin a friendship then I’d say a good way to do that would be to pull out a binder full of old scorecards you’ve been secretly hoarding away to rub his nose when the mood suits you. If you’re that bothered by it then the next time he brags about beating you laugh it off and tell him that you want some action on your next match. A dollar a hole, five dollar max is just a little pocket change but it sure seems to pay for a little good natured humility between friends.
 
if the person is a friend, get rid of those scorecards immediately and don't do so again. This is the classic, at sometime for some inexplicable reason...you thought a ball was in play, for example, that wasn't, he is near your bag and for whatever reason you aren't, you ask for a ball, he sees the scorecard...feelings are hurt and for what? a game?


If he is a friend the scores don't matter, the time and enjoying each others company does. If he is not a friend, don't torture yourself, there are lots of other people to golf with.

Unless you are playing for money, it is irrelevant what the score is and what is recorded. And keeping a secret score is BEGGING for an abrupt, aggressive end to the friendship. If you are playing for money and did not establish the rules in advance, it is begging for an abrupt, aggressive end to the friendship over different expectations and assumptions.

There is simply no win in this situation. If you care about his score...this is the Titanic heading for an iceberg. Not a matter of if it ends poorly but when.
 
darthweasel said:
if the person is a friend, get rid of those scorecards immediately and don't do so again. This is the classic, at sometime for some inexplicable reason...you thought a ball was in play, for example, that wasn't, he is near your bag and for whatever reason you aren't, you ask for a ball, he sees the scorecard...feelings are hurt and for what? a game?


If he is a friend the scores don't matter, the time and enjoying each others company does. If he is not a friend, don't torture yourself, there are lots of other people to golf with.

Unless you are playing for money, it is irrelevant what the score is and what is recorded. And keeping a secret score is BEGGING for an abrupt, aggressive end to the friendship. If you are playing for money and did not establish the rules in advance, it is begging for an abrupt, aggressive end to the friendship over different expectations and assumptions.

There is simply no win in this situation. If you care about his score...this is the Titanic heading for an iceberg. Not a matter of if it ends poorly but when.
Click to expand...
I would have to politely disagree. I think he has to be straight and honest if he wants to maintain the friendship. It can be extremely frustrating to play within the rules of golf and have a playing partner who does not follow them and often claims to be a better golfer than he really is. Recently I had a friend call me after a round and say "I guess I'm a 12 handicap now." I asked him 'how is that?' and he proceeds to tell me he played 9 holes by himself and used his first shot off every tee and didn't take any gimmes or mulligans and shot 6 over for those 9 holes. I play regularly with him and have never seen him play a single round where he didn't take 2-5 balls off most the tees to get one in play. I'm supposed to have a round with him this weekend so I just sent him a picture of my current cap in Arccos and said I was excited about getting a couple shots a side from him. He immediately responded that he looked again and it was actually 8 over par. I realize he doesn't take the game seriously and if he finds enjoyment playing this way I'm not going to tell him he's wrong. But I am open and honest if he tries to brag and say he's a better golfer as that would irritate me over time and I value the friendship.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Next time he finishes a round, say: "Hey, nice round? What'd ya shoot?"

When he says "80" and you know it was a 100, say: "Nice! I shot a 79! (when you both know you shot 84)"

If he lets it go, great. If he protests, say "Well, I have the real score for both of us right here" and then produce the scorecard.

It'll either keep him honest or shut him up.
 
Am I an A-hole?

Wrong thread!
 
I think we all kinda keep score of others even if in our heads only.
I would have laughed at his 80 and bought him a beer to celebrate the "win"
Next round discuss score every hole, count em all, and expect 19th hole beers for a while till he decides scoring is over rated :drinks:
 
Hackapotamus said:
Next time he finishes a round, say: "Hey, nice round? What'd ya shoot?"

When he says "80" and you know it was a 100, say: "Nice! I shot a 79! (when you both know you shot 84)"

If he lets it go, great. If he protests, say "Well, I have the real score for both of us right here" and then produce the scorecard.

It'll either keep him honest or shut him up.
Click to expand...
This is almost exactly my approach if I know the person.

Got paired up with a guy yesterday that "forgot" many of his strokes, penalties, etc. I could care less as long as we're not competing and I don't know them and have to listen to it after the round.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Hackapotamus said:
Next time he finishes a round, say: "Hey, nice round? What'd ya shoot?"

When he says "80" and you know it was a 100, say: "Nice! I shot a 79! (when you both know you shot 84)"

If he lets it go, great. If he protests, say "Well, I have the real score for both of us right here" and then produce the scorecard.

It'll either keep him honest or shut him up.
Click to expand...

This works too - I used to coach HS tennis where kids had to call their own lines in many of our comps. Sometimes it would be very clear that the opponent was cheating repeatedly and protesting was not helping. Once told a kid who was almost in tears over this type of behavior (which I as well as many others were witnessing) to call the next ball that hit the center of the court "out" - pretty drastic but it actually worked
 
I have a buddy who will take four shots out of a bunker and then tell me he got par. He "broke 90" for the first time a while ago and wanted to tell everyone about it. I didn't mind as I shot a legit 78. What does irk me is he questions my scores every time I play a good round even though we have mutual friends who can attest to my scores.

All that said I enjoy his company and he's generous with beer and beef jerky so I don't take it personally.
 
93civiccpe said:
I would have to politely disagree. I think he has to be straight and honest if he wants to maintain the friendship.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I guess it would come down to if we think keeping a secret scorecard is straight and honest. If he is straight and honest, to me that would be telling his buddy, "it really bothers me you claim a score that is not legitimate". Instead, being secretive but keeping a document? that is not straight or honest, it is sneaky and deceitful. And when discovered, those elements will be amplified.

He has already said telling his friend would hurt the guys feelings as the dude is sensitive. Fair enough, we have removed straight and honest. My point then is...don't have a document sitting around that can...no, WILL be found and the hurt feelings will be amplified by the secrecy which, to his friend, will come across as back-stabbing.

I am not defending his friend, just suggesting that keeping a secret scorecard...writers have made millions of dollars with these scenarios writing movies and tv shows. The reason those shows do well is they resonate with a lot of the population who had their secret disdain for another revealed in an inopportune manner.

I have no skin in the game either way. I just think his current path is heading for disaster. He can, for good or ill and at risk of hurting dudes feelings say something straight out. I am on board with that. He can decide he doesn't care what friend claims score is and ignore it. I am on board with that. Or he can keep an easily discovered, hurtful secret and risk everything. Not a path I would choose.
 
pmm21 said:
Other than the overall yes I fully expect to get with a question like this, I'd like to bring up something more specific.

Am I a jerk for keeping my friends *actual* score? A few weeks back, a buddy that I play with regularly claimed to have beaten me with an 80. I shot 83. A legitimate 83. I played exceptionally well. His 80 was far from legitimate.

He's a player who won't even play his ball from the rough. If there is anything that might challenge his shot, he throws the ball into the middle of the fairway. I would guess that more than 60% of the time he plays two or 3 balls off the tee, and often takes multiple mulligans on a single hole. This has never bothered me. I'm playing my game and he is playing his. We're not betting, and we're not competing. But the second he gloated about beating me, I got angry inside.

Since then, on my score card, I have been counting every one of his strokes and penalty strokes (we've played twice since then.) I have not told him I've done this, and its very unlikely I ever will. It's just weird that all of the sudden I am feeling fiercely competitive in regards to playing with him. Not that it matters but his claims of 80s golf in reality have been 109 and 111.

I know a lot of folks will chime in and say to not pay attention, but here's the rub. I am a very fast player. I step up and hit. He, on the other hand, has a mind-numbingly long pre-shot routine from tee to green (e.g. in our last round I walked past him as he placed his ball on a tee, into a restroom, did my business, washed my hands, and back to my bag before he had begun his takeaway.) So that in itself sort of forces me to watch him, as I've got nothing else to do.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

You could use this to your advantage. Play with a couple of folks he knows that you don't. Hopefully he's told them he beats you most of the time. Seems like an easy way to make some money! LOL

In all seriousness though, unless this guy was a really good friend of mine, I wouldn't tolerate that kind of playing partner. My best friend has awful golf ettiquette, but knows it and is working on it which is why I will tolerate golfing with him. But if it was an acquaintence that acted the same way as him, no more than 2 or 3 rounds would be tolerated.
 
darthweasel said:
I guess it would come down to if we think keeping a secret scorecard is straight and honest. If he is straight and honest, to me that would be telling his buddy, "it really bothers me you claim a score that is not legitimate". Instead, being secretive but keeping a document? that is not straight or honest, it is sneaky and deceitful. And when discovered, those elements will be amplified.

He has already said telling his friend would hurt the guys feelings as the dude is sensitive. Fair enough, we have removed straight and honest. My point then is...don't have a document sitting around that can...no, WILL be found and the hurt feelings will be amplified by the secrecy which, to his friend, will come across as back-stabbing.

I am not defending his friend, just suggesting that keeping a secret scorecard...writers have made millions of dollars with these scenarios writing movies and tv shows. The reason those shows do well is they resonate with a lot of the population who had their secret disdain for another revealed in an inopportune manner.

I have no skin in the game either way. I just think his current path is heading for disaster. He can, for good or ill and at risk of hurting dudes feelings say something straight out. I am on board with that. He can decide he doesn't care what friend claims score is and ignore it. I am on board with that. Or he can keep an easily discovered, hurtful secret and risk everything. Not a path I would choose.
Click to expand...
I think we are saying something similar. I wouldn't keep his score in secret as it will only make him more frustrated by his friends claims and there is the risk of it being seen. I would confront the friend politely but directly even if it hurts the guys feelings. We are adults and honesty shouldn't be too much to ask. I know these following terms will sound harsh but sugar - coating it doesn't help anyone: his friend is cheating and lying. The op (like most of us) is frustrated by that. I personally would not want to keep holding with that guy if he's not mature enough for a simple conversation about the rules of golf and how it's not fair to claim a victory if he is breaking rules & cheating. Life is too short and he should have learned about honesty and integrity a long time ago.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Want to play this Saturday, Pete? You can keep my score. :mean:
 
darthweasel said:
I guess it would come down to if we think keeping a secret scorecard is straight and honest. If he is straight and honest, to me that would be telling his buddy, "it really bothers me you claim a score that is not legitimate". Instead, being secretive but keeping a document? that is not straight or honest, it is sneaky and deceitful. And when discovered, those elements will be amplified.

He has already said telling his friend would hurt the guys feelings as the dude is sensitive. Fair enough, we have removed straight and honest. My point then is...don't have a document sitting around that can...no, WILL be found and the hurt feelings will be amplified by the secrecy which, to his friend, will come across as back-stabbing.

I am not defending his friend, just suggesting that keeping a secret scorecard...writers have made millions of dollars with these scenarios writing movies and tv shows. The reason those shows do well is they resonate with a lot of the population who had their secret disdain for another revealed in an inopportune manner.

I have no skin in the game either way. I just think his current path is heading for disaster. He can, for good or ill and at risk of hurting dudes feelings say something straight out. I am on board with that. He can decide he doesn't care what friend claims score is and ignore it. I am on board with that. Or he can keep an easily discovered, hurtful secret and risk everything. Not a path I would choose.
Click to expand...

What's dishonest about keeping his playing partner's score unless he's asked and denies he's keeping it?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
CobraX51 said:
He wants to write down an 80 then let him write down an 80.

But if he boasts about beating you that's when you drop the hammer on him and tell him what he does during a round of golf.
Click to expand...

Agree with Cobra, if somebody is hitting multiple balls off tees, moving to better lies and many mulligans, they should not be bragging about score, ever! And if they do, then you give it back and ask him to add in the mulli's and penalties and have a nice glass of shut the heck up!
 
OGputtnfool said:
What's dishonest about keeping his playing partner's score unless he's asked and denies he's keeping it?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


The very act of being secretive indicates some dishonesty. The point is to call someone out on their poor scorekeeping but it is done in secret, that to me reeks of dishonesty. Not all lies are commission, some are omission. And not admitting what you are doing...should his friend discover that card, do you think he will think our friend is being honest? I don't. And it seems not worth the risk to me. Either the guy is not worth keeping as a friend or the score is not worth keeping for real.

Side note: if the issue is the player taking mulligans and not counting strokes is telling mutual friends he scored better, and those friends have played with both...they already know anyway. Live action example; I have a group of 4 of us that have golfed together for...next year will be thirty years. They all know I count every stroke, if I go OB I take the stroke and distance penalty, etc. One of them and myself both have the same unlimited pass to the same course and play together often. He takes 1 mulligan per nine. If he goes OB in a white staked, he takes a 1 stroke penalty and drops there. Occasionally he will take a gimme (I neither give nor take them in this group as at one time there were some hurt feelings because I was giving them too generously on a day they were struggling).

Occasionally I will have a rough day and he will play out of his mind. He might shoot a 6 over with a mulligan and a creative drop while I shoot an 8 over. He will gleefully tell his wife and our two playing partners he beat me. I back him up on it. But nobody believes him because they know how I play and they know our respective skill levels.

The point is...they all know who the better golfer is (even though he actually has legit beat me a couple times) and even if the scorecard says one thing...they know reality. Same is true for this guy and his buddy. If they are truly friends, if they both have played with others...everyone knows the truth and it doesn't really matter. Secret scorecards are not necessary and to me lack some integrity. As others have pointed out...bring it up to him face to face or let it go, but don't hide stuff like this.
 
A fellow at my club used to have a friend he played golf with often. I say used to because they had a falling out a while back and are no longer on speaking terms.

The other guy was constantly wanting to play a little head-to-head match instead of just playing together. The guy I know doesn't like to play in any sort of handicapped game. He plays off scratch and saves his competitive urges for scratch tournaments.

Eventually, the friend started keeping score of what they both shot. Except giving himself strokes, of course. Then the guy I know heard his friend telling everyone how he "beat him" the last time they played. That is he "won" a game that only he knew they were even playing.

There was a confrontation and an agreement to just keep out of each other's way in future.

My point being, trying to force your own Rules or format or game onto someone who isn't interested is never going to end well. If you want to make a big deal about it, go ahead. But be sure you really, truly don't want to play with this guy in future before you go down that road.
 
darthweasel said:
The very act of being secretive indicates some dishonesty. The point is to call someone out on their poor scorekeeping but it is done in secret, that to me reeks of dishonesty. Not all lies are commission, some are omission. And not admitting what you are doing...should his friend discover that card, do you think he will think our friend is being honest? I don't. And it seems not worth the risk to me. Either the guy is not worth keeping as a friend or the score is not worth keeping for real.

Side note: if the issue is the player taking mulligans and not counting strokes is telling mutual friends he scored better, and those friends have played with both...they already know anyway. Live action example; I have a group of 4 of us that have golfed together for...next year will be thirty years. They all know I count every stroke, if I go OB I take the stroke and distance penalty, etc. One of them and myself both have the same unlimited pass to the same course and play together often. He takes 1 mulligan per nine. If he goes OB in a white staked, he takes a 1 stroke penalty and drops there. Occasionally he will take a gimme (I neither give nor take them in this group as at one time there were some hurt feelings because I was giving them too generously on a day they were struggling).

Occasionally I will have a rough day and he will play out of his mind. He might shoot a 6 over with a mulligan and a creative drop while I shoot an 8 over. He will gleefully tell his wife and our two playing partners he beat me. I back him up on it. But nobody believes him because they know how I play and they know our respective skill levels.

The point is...they all know who the better golfer is (even though he actually has legit beat me a couple times) and even if the scorecard says one thing...they know reality. Same is true for this guy and his buddy. If they are truly friends, if they both have played with others...everyone knows the truth and it doesn't really matter. Secret scorecards are not necessary and to me lack some integrity. As others have pointed out...bring it up to him face to face or let it go, but don't hide stuff like this.
Click to expand...
Remind us to never throw you a surprise party. Just the fact that we didn't tell you we were planning it would seem us dishonest.

Some things don't need to be said... until they need to be said.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Et Tu Brute? said:
A fellow at my club used to have a friend he played golf with often. I say used to because they had a falling out a while back and are no longer on speaking terms.

The other guy was constantly wanting to play a little head-to-head match instead of just playing together. The guy I know doesn't like to play in any sort of handicapped game. He plays off scratch and saves his competitive urges for scratch tournaments.

Eventually, the friend started keeping score of what they both shot. Except giving himself strokes, of course. Then the guy I know heard his friend telling everyone how he "beat him" the last time they played. That is he "won" a game that only he knew they were even playing.

There was a confrontation and an agreement to just keep out of each other's way in future.

My point being, trying to force your own Rules or format or game onto someone who isn't interested is never going to end well. If you want to make a big deal about it, go ahead. But be sure you really, truly don't want to play with this guy in future before you go down that road.
Click to expand...
That sounds fairly comical and nearly opposite of what I'm reading is going on in the OP.

OP has a guy not following the RoG claiming he beat someone who is following the RoG. That scenario has someone who wants to be able to beat someone who is better than he is so he creates a scenario where he can win.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
pmm21 said:
Other than the overall yes I fully expect to get with a question like this, I'd like to bring up something more specific.

Am I a jerk for keeping my friends *actual* score? A few weeks back, a buddy that I play with regularly claimed to have beaten me with an 80. I shot 83. A legitimate 83. I played exceptionally well. His 80 was far from legitimate.

He's a player who won't even play his ball from the rough. If there is anything that might challenge his shot, he throws the ball into the middle of the fairway. I would guess that more than 60% of the time he plays two or 3 balls off the tee, and often takes multiple mulligans on a single hole. This has never bothered me. I'm playing my game and he is playing his. We're not betting, and we're not competing. But the second he gloated about beating me, I got angry inside.

Since then, on my score card, I have been counting every one of his strokes and penalty strokes (we've played twice since then.) I have not told him I've done this, and its very unlikely I ever will. It's just weird that all of the sudden I am feeling fiercely competitive in regards to playing with him. Not that it matters but his claims of 80s golf in reality have been 109 and 111.

I know a lot of folks will chime in and say to not pay attention, but here's the rub. I am a very fast player. I step up and hit. He, on the other hand, has a mind-numbingly long pre-shot routine from tee to green (e.g. in our last round I walked past him as he placed his ball on a tee, into a restroom, did my business, washed my hands, and back to my bag before he had begun his takeaway.) So that in itself sort of forces me to watch him, as I've got nothing else to do.

What do you think?
Click to expand...


Find new people to play with?
 
pmm21 said:
Other than the overall yes I fully expect to get with a question like this, I'd like to bring up something more specific.

Am I a jerk for keeping my friends *actual* score? A few weeks back, a buddy that I play with regularly claimed to have beaten me with an 80. I shot 83. A legitimate 83. I played exceptionally well. His 80 was far from legitimate.

He's a player who won't even play his ball from the rough. If there is anything that might challenge his shot, he throws the ball into the middle of the fairway. I would guess that more than 60% of the time he plays two or 3 balls off the tee, and often takes multiple mulligans on a single hole. This has never bothered me. I'm playing my game and he is playing his. We're not betting, and we're not competing. But the second he gloated about beating me, I got angry inside.

Since then, on my score card, I have been counting every one of his strokes and penalty strokes (we've played twice since then.) I have not told him I've done this, and its very unlikely I ever will. It's just weird that all of the sudden I am feeling fiercely competitive in regards to playing with him. Not that it matters but his claims of 80s golf in reality have been 109 and 111.

I know a lot of folks will chime in and say to not pay attention, but here's the rub. I am a very fast player. I step up and hit. He, on the other hand, has a mind-numbingly long pre-shot routine from tee to green (e.g. in our last round I walked past him as he placed his ball on a tee, into a restroom, did my business, washed my hands, and back to my bag before he had begun his takeaway.) So that in itself sort of forces me to watch him, as I've got nothing else to do.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

What do you want to accomplish by keeping his real score for him?
 
OGputtnfool said:
Remind us to never throw you a surprise party. Just the fact that we didn't tell you we were planning it would seem us dishonest.

Some things don't need to be said... until they need to be said.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I can take this two ways. the first is you are intentionally being a complete and utter troll. However, having read your stuff across many threads, I don't think you are intentionally doing so. I think you are someone who very passionately is decided the game is only to be played and talked about a certain way and it is your way or nothing. No worries, I get that, I used to be like that and, when I found out how it impacted the weight people gave my words, worked hard to overcome it. It is a definite drawback to having reasonable conversations between people with differing points of view.

The second way is you genuinely do not understand the difference between someone putting thought, time and effort into doing something good for someone they care about in an effort to provide joy and pleasure...and someone putting thought, time and effort into doing something they KNOW would be hurtful if discovered and hiding it not to be helpful to the other person but to be detrimental...


If you think those two things are the same...yeah, we are done here. Not really anywhere to go from there. To be sure, there are appropriate times to maintain secrets. There are also inappropriate times. And yes, a lot has to do with motivation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top