Ready to Quit!!

About four years ago was shooting in the low 80's on a good day and mid-high 80's on a bad day. Pretty upright swing, more arms than body. My miss was a bad pull left that would get me in trouble and end up costing me a couple strokes per side. Being a coach my whole life i know athletes can only get so far on their own, so I decided it was time for lessons. I thought maybe he'd give me a few tweaks but he wanted to retool my whole swing. I had to stand farther away, bend over more and flatten out my swing. I worked very hard on this for the rest of that summer and the next but never got comfortable. Things kept getting worse. I know when your in a major change that things will get worse before they got better. But, they never got better. My miss became a high push with no distance. I got very frustrated as it was a struggle to break 100. Last summer I tried to just go back to my old swing, but honestly, I can't remember what it felt like. I'm caught between both swings now and I suffer from paralysis by analysis. I must have 1000 swing thoughts when I step up to the ball. I used to love golf, heck I'd golf 5 days a week and sometimes twice a day. I went out Saturday and became so frustrated after four holes that I walked off the course. Honestly, I'm terrified to even try lessons again as it was such a bad experience before.
Physically I'm pretty strong but I'm a little limited on back flexibility and I've had both shoulders operated on. My old swing didn't bother me but the one I've tried working on kills my back after about 9 holes.
So, what should I do? Put the clubs up for sale and start flyfishing?

Welcome to THP, jumpalot. Paragraphs are your friend! hehehe

There are a lot of people here who understand completely because so many of us have gone through it.

All I can say is to put your head down and keep trying. Ole Gray is a regular around here and you can read about his struggles with his swing in this thread...

Maybe you should try a different swing coach. I think, based on how you describe your perception and "comfort" with the swing, that you should look for someone who subscribes to the "feel" style of golf teaching. Our teaching pro in this forum is FANTASTIC. Give him a holler in the ask a pro section and post a video of your swing. I bet he'll have some really good input about where to go next.

don't give it up man! like you said you're a coach you would not want your athlete's to quit so keep at it, it will come around for you. I say you take some lessons with a quality teacher and tell him what's going on and about your back problems and he will get you fixed up! just don't give up,golf is a very hard game, you will get it back in time! goodluck man!

Smallville said:

Welcome to THP, jumpalot. Paragraphs are your friend! hehehe

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I typed it in with paragraphs. In fact before I submitted I double checked. It annoys me when I'm trying to read something that runs together. Not sure what happened.

Jumpalot said:

About four years ago was shooting in the low 80's on a good day and mid-high 80's on a bad day. Pretty upright swing, more arms than body. My miss was a bad pull left that would get me in trouble and end up costing me a couple strokes per side. Being a coach my whole life i know athletes can only get so far on their own, so I decided it was time for lessons. I thought maybe he'd give me a few tweaks but he wanted to retool my whole swing. I had to stand farther away, bend over more and flatten out my swing. I worked very hard on this for the rest of that summer and the next but never got comfortable. Things kept getting worse. I know when your in a major change that things will get worse before they got better. But, they never got better. My miss became a high push with no distance. I got very frustrated as it was a struggle to break 100. Last summer I tried to just go back to my old swing, but honestly, I can't remember what it felt like. I'm caught between both swings now and I suffer from paralysis by analysis. I must have 1000 swing thoughts when I step up to the ball. I used to love golf, heck I'd golf 5 days a week and sometimes twice a day. I went out Saturday and became so frustrated after four holes that I walked off the course. Honestly, I'm terrified to even try lessons again as it was such a bad experience before.
Physically I'm pretty strong but I'm a little limited on back flexibility and I've had both shoulders operated on. My old swing didn't bother me but the one I've tried working on kills my back after about 9 holes.
So, what should I do? Put the clubs up for sale and start flyfishing?

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Dude... man up... don't be a wuss! J/K

I think if you are asking if you should give up, then you don't really want to give up... like someone reaching out for support :act-up:

Get another pro and see what happens. You should also talk to our resident pro like Gus suggested. Good luck to you!

We all struggle with this stupid, wonderful, frustrating, great game. I believe it was Bob Rotella who said that golf is not a game of perfect, or something along those lines. Celebrate your victories, thumb your nose at your defeats, and keep on swinging.

By the way. Welcome to THP, a wonderful forum with some very nice people.

As others have said we all get frustrated from time to time, it's an unavoidable part of golf.

I personally think lessons are the best way to spend your money if you want to improve (not that it has stopped me buying enough equipment to outfit several golfers) but I think it is important that you find a swing coach you trust. Had some bad experiences before I found a guy who looked at my swing, focused on the positives and began to change things without trying to completely alter my swing. I cannot tell you have much it has helped.

So yeah like RxGus said try another swing coach.

I don't have any quick answers for you but like others have said... stick with it, it will happen.

Years ago, I gave up the game,in 1995, for two reasons:
1) Personal loss - my Dad passed away - he was my best partner
2) Had the sha**s

They would come out of nowhere; hang around for a couple weeks, then go away (temporarily). They totally ruined the game of golf for me. I quit.

Picked up the game again, last year. After a few weeks, quess what... they're back. But I was determined to not let THEM beat me. I video-taped my swing, took a few lessons and PRACTICED. I fully understand (thanks to the Internet) the basis for a sh**k and have worked at reducing them. Want to hear something really frustrating. I would shoot in the low '80's and sometimes go out and could not hit a ball...AT ALL! I'm talking about hitting 7 irons about 50 yards along the ground and topping fairway woods 30 yards. How the hell do you shoot an 82 one day and can't even hit a ball the next??!!
But I kept at it and kept taping my swing and practiced

My point is that now, I regret losing thoses 15 years of quitting. I was 40 back then and lost some prime time golf. If you really enjoy the game, keep working at it. If you used to shoot in the '80's then you have some insight into what it takes. Maybe you should go to a Golf Tech and take a scientific approach to it? The problem I have with golf course pros is that they ALL have different methods. I have heard stories about your situation a few times, whereas the students swing was changed so drastically that they could no longer hit a ball.

I know it's no fun in your situation, but I firmly believe that if you keep at it, diligently, it will come back. Tape your swing and watch it on software (V1 is free). You may pick up on some minor faults that you can change yourself; enough to at least start having some fun again.

Good luck.

Buddyjay said:

Tape your swing and watch it on software (V1 is free). You may pick up on some minor faults that you can change yourself; enough to at least start having some fun again.

Good luck.

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Could not agree more with the above. Recording my swing on a regular basis is the best thing I've ever done. Really helps me see whenever I've crept back into some old bad habits.

Thanks for the warm welcome and support. I've only golfed 10 rounds in the last two summers. But, I go to the range almost everyday to practice. I will think I just about have it fixed and then I can't hit a ball to save my life. Before lessons, if I hit a bad shot, I had an idea how not to hit it again. But the two swings are so different, now if I hit a bad shot, I'm not sure which swing I used and how to fix it. Sometimes I think I end up combining the two (Stand close and flat swing or stand away and upright swing) and then I'm really confused. Right now my swing feels like an unfolding lawn chair (quote from Tin Cup). I'm a very technical and analytical person in everything I do and that aspect is kicking my butt everytime I step up to the ball.
It's funny, I coach athletes and I also do camps and clinics for coaches. I always tell coaches to tell their athletes what they want them to do instead of what they don't want them to do. For instance, maybe say "Keep your head down longer during your swing" instead of "Don't look up when you swing." But when it comes to me all I can think are the negative thoughts.
I'll try going to the range today with the video camera and see what I can pick up. I've been questioning everyone I know who are taking lessons what they think of their swing coach and it's a little like asking which is better, Chevy, Ford or Dodge. So I'm not sure which would be best for me.
Thanks again.

Jumpalot - Being a coach most of your life means you love sports. Well you are probaly getting too old to play around with too much of anything else except with the old lady. Sooooooo hang in there and keep at it. Just being outdoors in the beautiful nature is a bonus. I just went through a series of six lessons and man let me tell ya, I know where you are coming from. I can tell my swing is getting better. Not where I want it to be, but let's face it, most of us on here have missed out on our PGA/LPGA cards long ago.

Like others have said, go to Andy on here for advice. His drill of hitting balls with your feet together on the practice tee or hell even the course for a while works wonders.

My coach down here in Macon, Ga. has me hitting balls down a slight incline. A wonderful drill to help you learn to stay down and through the ball and make solid contact.

Come on buddy, let's hang in this thing together and whup it's :deadhorse:!!!!! Good luck to ya )
Old Gray

Get the video and post it in the Ask the Pro section. I think amollerud usually likes a face on view and one looking down the line (from behind you) with your driver and a 7i.

Jumpalot,

When I started playing as a kid we didn't have the financial means for lessons, so like many other people I was self-taught. After giving up the game for about twenty during my adult life, I went back to it about six years ago (after my tennis legs were gone). Since that time I've taken lesson from at least six different pros. As a result of that experience, I've come to the conclusion that no one can teach me the most important thing about my swing - how does it feel. Though it's possible I'm a bad student (I've been in education for 26-years, so I'm familiar with the concept), I think it very hard for someone - regardless of their expertise - to watch a swing and give practial advice. I've taken putting lessons from five different instructors, including Charley Hoffman's coach. They've helped me not at all. I've also taken a couple of swing lessons with the same nothing result. Look at how totally lost Hank Haney has been in trying to help Charles Barkley and Ray Romano. Haney is regarded as one of the best teachers in the world, yet had near zero impact on both of them.

On the other hand, I don't know if I've had a driving range session where I didn't have some type of self-discovery moment. Sometimes, in fact most times, it's often very subtle. Maybe a slight change in the ball position, or modest tweak in the grip, but the change is usually immediate. More importantly, its something that usually translates out to the course.

There probably isn't a person here who hasn't thought of giving up the game at some point. This spring I was totally lost. Going out to the course was more frustrating than anything that ever happens in the office. Golf wasn't my escape from life's frustrations, it was the leading cause of it. (I have attitude issues) I told my wife that if I can ever work my back to scratch again I'll never complain about another thing. Well, I'm almost there, and I can tell you this is a promise I won't be able to keep. Yesterday I owned my swing, tomorrow it could be lost all over again. To me the most enjoyable part of the game is the chase for perfection. I know I'll never get there, but do find something satisfying about the journey.

Good luck in finding your swing. It's still in there somewhere. I would bet that it 's somewhere under a couple of range buckets. I hope you find it.

MUTiger,
I think you are a VERY dissenting opinion on this forum and in the golfing world in general.
Personally, pounding away to find my swing under a pile of balls does nothing for me. It took someone else looking at my swing and helping me know what the swing should look like.

That is why I suggested a coach who teaches on feel and not on mechanics. By training your body about what a good swing should feel like, so when you swing you can feel those same things. I agree that everyone has a different swing and that we can't force everyone into the same cookie cutter swing... BUT to think that you can do it without any instruction is naive. If you have a 1.1 index and are completely self taught- then you are 1 in 1,000,000 because for the rest of us that is simply not possible.

Once you have a decent grip and have figured out how to set up to the ball, I think the rest has to do with your particular body type and your own athleticism. By that, I mean everyone has a style that is unique to them. I can't swing like Tiger or Freddy or Phil, but I can get the same kind of results by swinging within my own abilities. I don't think a coach can help with that beyond watching you and telling you if you are doing something that is unnatural to YOU. You could do that yourself by listening to your body.

I am not against coaching or lessons, I just think many "teachers" are more interested in getting you to some ideal than to working with what your body and mind bring to the game. My friends who have had lessons stop playing golf and start focusing on where their left shoulder is at the top of the backswing. I always thought the object was to get the ball in the hole and I think when it becomes about positions and swing thoughts, all is lost.

RxGus,

I am new to the board. So far I have only posted four times. I fail to see how four posts could be regarded as offering "a VERY dissenting opinion on this forum.." One of the posts was about a putting stroke, another asked if board members had a hole on their home course that gave them particular trouble, and the 4th was about the handicapping system. With the possible exception of the handicapping system, I'm not sure how any of those would qualify as dissenting in any way other than perhaps offering an opinin different than your own.

As for this post, my reply was based on personal experience, as I would guess was the case with the others who responded. I have no doubt that a good golf instructor could be helpful to many players, that simply hasn't been the case with me. I even acknolwedge that in my case it probably is more the fault of the student than teacher. I would not question that you may have had a teacher who's helped your game. Bully for you if that has been the case, but please keep in mind that your experience (as is the case with mine as well) doesn't necessarily apply universally. You said that to "find my swing under a pile of balls does nothing for me." I'm sure that's true, but would you at least be open to the possibilty that this apporach might work for others? The original post stated his experience with an instructor was not positive. It would seem that a golf teacher should also follow the medical profession's creed of "first, do no harm." It's unfortunate the poster's game went backwards after his lessons, and has stayed there.

The post after yours from C-Tech is one I agree with completely. I agree that many teachers are more interested in teaching to an ideal as opposed to what an individual is bringing to the table. I coached and taught tennis for several years and was guilty of the same thing. It took me awhile to learn that most people will not have the ability to model their ground strokes after Evert or volleys after Navratilova. I wish I could undo some of the damage I did, but just had to check it off to a lesson learned and try to do better.

You also mentioned that my opinions were dissenting to the golfing world in general. Please explain.

Lastly, you wrote that "If you have a 1.1 index and are completely self-taught - then you are 1 in 1,000,000..." I assume you know you're exaggerating, and not by just a little. I think my experience is not all that odd for people who grew up on a public course. In my regular weekend group I play with a 2-handicapper and another with a 3. Given the scores they've been shooting lately, I expect that when the new handicaps come out they'll both be 1's as well. Neither one of them has ever taken a lesson. I guess that would then make us 3 out of 3,000,000. What are the odds of that?!

I have enjoyed the brief time I've been on THP. I want to be a positive contributor to the the board, and hope most people would recognize that the Board can only be improved when a diversity of opinion is offered.

This is coming from someone that has just taken his first lesson. I think that if you start early enough in your life, have reasonable athletic ability and a desire to apply it to golf then chances are pretty darned good, I would say better than even money, that you can become a good golfer without lessons.

If you come to the came later in life, I think that you will ultimately end up needing lessons in order to continue to improve to the point where you are happy with your ability to play the game.

I have said repeatedly on this forum that I think lessons from day one can be counterproductive. Coming to a teaching pro with nothing in place can make for a long drawn out experience and you may just run out of gas, enthusiasm or money before you get anywhere. However at some point if you are like me, having come to the game late, you will plateau in your efforts to improve and that is in my view the time to take on a teacher. In my case, I would not trade the time I have put into the game myself for anything and at the same time I am very pleased with the results from even one lesson.

I have had one lesson in my life, and the crap he put into my head I still struggle against today. I'm a big guy, I take a Daly like swing and this guy tried to make me swing very compactly. I struggled with it for months and it felt so uncomfortable and took all of my distance, and my score dramaticly got worse. It was so bad that I stepped away from golf for 3 years.

I'm a feel player and always have been, the problem with that is finding a good teacher that can work with you that way. I would think that it's alot easier to teach mechanics to a position type of player. I have been back at golf now for almost 3 years and have gotten myself down in the low 80's and most of it has come from the internet. I read through articles and something will jump out at me that makes sense, I then go to the range and see how it feels. I'll admit that most things that work are found by accident on the range.

I think lessons are great and everyone should go have atleast one to see how you react to them. I also think though that they aren't for everyone. Maybe if you have the money to seek out several different teachers you may get lucky and find the one that clicks for you, but for the most part alot of us are limited to a few locals and it's pretty much hit and miss.

Degoins, that I don’t get. Why a teaching pro would take a guy that he has never seen play before and try to flip him on his ear is beyond me. I do think that is one of the issues with lessons. You have to find someone that fits what you want and what you need.

Remembering my earlier post, I suppose someone could argue that if I had just paid strict attention to the details of proper address posture, I may not have hit a plateau, at least not where I did. What the pro did with my posture at address is pretty standard stuff. In point of fact I was too low and the butt of my club was well below my beltline. I could see that and I knew that it was not what is recommended. However I thought it was right for me. I had no idea that I was lifting my left foot off the ground as much as I was and I had no idea that the whole posture thing was responsible for my being way out of balance. I would not have gotten that figured out without help, at least I don’t think so.

That said, I can already tell that this guy does not want to convert me into something I am not. He respects the work that I have put in so far and he is just going to address the ugly parts. If you saw the film of me trying to regain my balance because my knees were too bent at address, you would definitely agree that was an ugly part, that is after you stopped laughing.

I would say that as far as the OP is concerned and quitting or not, I am in the camp that believes that you get a good grip (no pun intended) and a good address position and make sure you are using the big muscles of your shoulders for your takeaway and that is good bit of the battle. I would recommend that you slow down, breadth, take some pressure off yourself and just make sure you have a good grip a good address position and a good takeaway. I would even say maybe it would make sense to take small swings with a high iron or wedge and concentrate on that. While you are getting that together get some recommendations for a pro from people you know and see if you can hook up with somebody that can help you. At the same time, think about what your expectations are going to be for lessons. Then right in the first meeting, tell him or her what you want. If he is not willing to help you or you get the feeling that he is not going to give you what you need, pull the plug and find someone else.

Degoins, that I don’t get. Why a teaching pro would take a guy that he has never seen play before and try to flip him on his ear is beyond me. I do think that is one of the issues with lessons. You have to find someone that fits what you want and what you need.

Remembering my earlier post, I suppose someone could argue that if I had just paid strict attention to the details of proper address posture, I may not have hit a plateau, at least not where I did. What the pro did with my posture at address is pretty standard stuff. In point of fact I was too low and the butt of my club was well below my beltline. I could see that and I knew that it was not what is recommended. However I thought it was right for me. I had no idea that I was lifting my left foot off the ground as much as I was and I had no idea that the whole posture thing was responsible for my being way out of balance. I would not have gotten that figured out without help, at least I don’t think so.

That said, I can already tell that this guy does not want to convert me into something I am not. He respects the work that I have put in so far and he is just going to address the ugly parts. If you saw the film of me trying to regain my balance because my knees were too bent at address, you would definitely agree that was an ugly part, that is after you stopped laughing.

I would say that as far as the OP is concerned and quitting or not, I am in the camp that believes that you get a good grip (no pun intended) and a good address position and make sure you are using the big muscles of your shoulders for your takeaway and that is good bit of the battle. I would recommend that you slow down, breadth, take some pressure off yourself and just make sure you have a good grip a good address position and a good takeaway. I would even say maybe it would make sense to take small swings with a high iron or wedge and concentrate on that. While you are getting that together get some recommendations for a pro from people you know and see if you can hook up with somebody that can help you. At the same time, think about what your expectations are going to be for lessons. Then right in the first meeting, tell him or her what you want. If he is not willing to help you or you get the feeling that he is not going to give you what you need, pull the plug and find someone else.

If golf was easy we would all be on the PGA Tour...don't give up. I'm sure almost every single person on here has experienced what you're going through right now.

I appreciate all the replies so far. Keep them coming. I haven't been able to get out since I started this thread as the wind has been blowing about 25 mph and gusting to 40 mph. Not all that uncommon here but I don't think going out in this would help at all. I do feel that I am more of a "feel" player and I've been trying too hard to hit certain positions. If I could just let go of the swing thoughts like "take the club back low, flat left wrist, point the butt of the club at the target line etc.", I might be OK. But that is easier said than done. Before if I hit a shot fat, I would just step up and swing and not hit it fat again. Now I wonder if I got too steep, cast from the top, wrong ball position, or too flat. Then I have NO IDEA what to do on my next swing. AARRGGHHH!!!! Definitely over thinking things. But I can't get the EVIL thoughts out of my head!!! Maybe I'd be better off seeing a shrink instead of a swing coach. LOL!!