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Rules Question. What would you do?

thewitt

thewitt

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This weekend, on a short par 4 I hit 3W over the hill, which feeds down to the green well below.

The group in front was still putting and my ball rolled onto the fringe. We knew they were putting. I knew there was a risk my ball would get down near the green on a roll off the hill, but would not get on to the green because of a swale right in front.

I would either be in a green side bunker or right between the bunkers in the swale.

When I arrived to the ball, I found it had been teed up in the swale - the classic "Don't hit into us" action for a ball hit into a group in front.

You can scold me for hitting early, ok. I could have waited but they were really never at risk and on this hole everyone does what I did. It's very common for balls to roll down the steep hill while you are chipping or putting to this green. None of them ever make the green. Most stop in the bunkers or just short depending on the grass condition and height that day.

The rules question is this.

What are my options to proceed with playing my ball. Clearly it was interfered with by an outside agency...and did not roll up onto that tee by itself.

I knew what to do.

Two of my playing partners would have proceeded incorrectly.

What would you do?
 
Did you see them tee it up? If not, play it as it lies.
 
Did you see the point where the ball came to rest?
 
Drop it as near as possible to where you think the correct spot would be. Actually you may need to place it, rather than drop it.
 
I would think you get a free drop and also get to apologize to the group in front of you.
 
Unless you saw them touch it or saw where it landed you need to play it where it is.
 
Oh and if they touched your ball for hitting a 375 yard tee shot to the green their a$$es
 
Play it down. Unless someone was there to see what happened and tell you where it should be, play it down.
 
War Eagle said:
Play it down. Unless someone was there to see what happened and tell you where it should be, play it down.
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This says it all, You have to play it where it lies, rules are rules
 
The rule says you must be virtually certain the ball was moved by an outside agency. Because it is highly unlikely it finished on the tee without outside help, I think that qualifies as virtually certain. Since he didn't see where it ended up in the first place, I think he should place it on the ground as close as possible to where the tee is.
 
Let me clarify the tee. It was a 4" tall driver tee, not a short iron tee. The ball was 2" off the ground.
 
thewitt said:
Let me clarify the tee. It was a 4" tall driver tee, not a short iron tee. The ball was 2" off the ground.
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Unfortunately, unless you saw it placed there and moved from another point, you have to play it as close to that point as possible.
 
Golf Ghost said:
Unfortunately, unless you saw it placed there and moved from another point, you have to play it as close to that point as possible.
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Agreed. Otherwise, he would need to drive up to the group ahead and ask where it landed to figure out a drop.

However, I would love to hit a flop shot off a huge tee.
 
I would take it off the tee and hit it. Play it where it lies teed up, really?
 
Maybe it was a hole in one and they put it on the tee to congratulate you.
 
I don't see how Rule 18-1 wouldn't be the proper rule in this case. As War said, unless the group in front of you were to say they moved it and showed you the point from which they moved it, wouldn't it be deemed moved by an outside agent?
 
Golf Ghost said:
I don't see how Rule 18-1 wouldn't be the proper rule in this case. As War said, unless the group in front of you were to say they moved it and showed you the point from which they moved it, wouldn't it be deemed moved by an outside agent?
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That's what I think. Rule 18-1. But since you don't know where the ball would have been if it hadn't been put on that tee, you gotta go to Rule 20-3(c).
 
Smallville said:
The rule says you must be virtually certain the ball was moved by an outside agency. Because it is highly unlikely it finished on the tee without outside help, I think that qualifies as virtually certain. Since he didn't see where it ended up in the first place, I think he should place it on the ground as close as possible to where the tee is.
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I would agree with Smallville. In other rules, local knowledge of the course can help make a decision about whether there something was virtually certain to happen. It sounds like thewitt has played this shot before, and has a good idea of where the ball should have ended up. If the ball was teed up in that general area, he could be virtually certain they teed it up in the spot where the ball lay. He should be allowed to place the ball on the spot where it was teed.
 
Smallville said:
That's what I think. Rule 18-1. But since you don't know where the ball would have been if it hadn't been put on that tee, you gotta go to Rule 20-3(c).
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Spot not determinable. Drop it as near to the spot it lay? Which would be on the tee.
 
Golf Ghost said:
Spot not determinable. Drop it as near to the spot it lay? Which would be on the tee.
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But Rule 18-1 is invoked first. Ball moved by outside agency. So the tee is gone. But the spot the tee was in the ground is still there.
 
Where is Fourputt when you need him? The dude knows the rules.
 
Smallville said:
Drop it as near as possible to where you think the correct spot would be. Actually you may need to place it, rather than drop it.
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I would go with this. A drop nearest the point where you believe the ball came to rest.
 
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