Professional Clubfitters - I need your help with shaft choice!!!

I was fitted into TaylorMade R11 irons with Dynamic Gold S300 shafts. The Trackman Launch Monitor stats for that setup 6 iron (28 degrees, 37.25 inches, 61.5 degrees lie, 5.6 frequency, D3-D4 swingweight, Golf Pride VDR or Tour Velvet grip) done on a 75 degree day with no wind is as follows...

Club Speed 81.2
Attack Angle -1.7
Club Path -4.8
Vert. Swing Plane 57.7
Horiz. Swing Plane -5.8
Dynamic Loft 26.4
Face Angle -.9
Ball Speed 104.5
Smash factor 1.29
Vert. Angle 21.0
Horiz. Angle -1.7
Spin Rate 5604
Spin Axis 3.7
Max Height 27.1
Carry 148.7
Side 1.2
Flight Time 5.46
Landing Angle 43.2
Total Length 159.8
Total Side 1.7

I am 51 years old, 5' 9" and 155 pounds, an 11 handicap, will have these for at least 5-7 years, my swing speed isn't getting any faster, I have a flattish swing, a smooth release, a typically high ball flight, have little wind in the area in which I play, and this is a very expensive and important purchase to me. Does this setup look good to you? I am getting this shaft as I really like its feel and typically play well with Dynamic Golds, but I am worried that it is too stiff. Are there any adjustments that can be done to the S300 or club setup that would make my ball flight, distance, and accuracy better for the long term? Are the launch and descent angles good? Do you think the DG S300 is appropriate based on the information given or would softstepping the S300 be better for me long term? How does the entire setup look to you? Any help any of the professional clubfitters on this forum can give me is incredibly appreciated!!!

Anybody?

I would love to wake up in the morning and have some great responses! Thank you!!!

I'm not a professional clubfitter, but I'll try to help you out. First of all, I don't mean to be blunt, but I'll say it: all of the questions that you posted above, you should take them to your clubfitter and ask him/her about them. If the clubfitter is truly interested in getting you into the best clubs possible, they will be able to give you answers for all of your questions. You were fit on a Trackman, which aren't available all over the place, so I'm going to assume that you went to a reputable clubfitter. Did you hit other shafts in the R11 irons other than the Dynamic Gold S300? I'm also going to assume that your clubfitter had a TaylorMade fitting cart, because the S300 isn't the stock shaft in these irons, but the S300 is on the fitting cart. If you did hit other shafts, did the S300 give you the best numbers or did you prefer the feel of the S300 over other shafts? What did your clubfitter have to say about your numbers?

You asked for advice, so I'll give you my 2 cents. Before we go any further, if you are set on the R11 irons, you should check out this thread, tons of information from members on here that are playing the R11 irons, including myself: http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...R11-Irons-Review-Thread-Forum-Testing-Reviews

In terms of the numbers themselves, have a look at this chart, it's the PGA and LPGA Trackman averages from 2009:


Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're much closer to the LPGA averages than the PGA averages, so we'll use those numbers as a comparison for you. Your launch angle is definitely on the higher end of things, so I don't think you have to worry that you're going to launch it too low even though the S300 is a lower-launching shaft compared to some other shafts. It looks like you come across the ball at impact (negative club path and horizontal swing path numbers mean outside-to-in) with a slightly closed clubface (negative face angle), so you probably play a fade. The positive number on the spin axis corresponds to a fade. Your directional control is pretty good if you're only 1.7 yards off of the target in terms of sideways disperson. The spin rate is also in an acceptable range. This is probably going to sound nitpicky, but if you want to launch it lower, you need to work on your swing dynamics more than changing shafts, because you're already in a low-launching shaft. Your dynamic loft at impact is 26.4 degrees, so you're only delofting the club by 1.6 degrees at impact, which corresponds to the -1.7 attack angle. Work on getting your hands forward at impact, and your attack angle will be more negative, thus delofting the club more and probably increasing the ball speed as well. You would get a slightly lower launch, but a stronger flight and may get more distance. Also, work on coming more from the inside so you're not cutting across the ball, this will also help increase your ball speed which will give you more distance.

In terms of going to other shafts, if you're worried about your swing slowing down in the years to come, why not try out the Dynamic Gold SL shafts? They are lower weight than the standard Dynamic Gold shafts. Also, a lot of the people playing the R11 irons have had great success with the stock shafts that come with these clubs, which are the KBS 90 shafts. You'd be swinging shafts that are significantly lighter than the S300 shafts, and that may help as the years go by.

Finally, if you provide us with some answers to the questions that I posted above, you may get some more input. However, I will reiterate, if you had a good clubfitter, I would trust what that person said more than what anyone is trying to say on the Internet, because the clubfitter was able to see your ballflight as opposed to just trying to fit you based on numbers.

Another question

Another question

I hit other shafts and Dynamic Gold felt the best and brought my ball flight down the most. The fitter I went to is very good and respected. He told me that he worried that my ball flight would become too high with the softstep, but that I could do it as it woudn't make that much difference.

I really appreciate the replies. Another question for you great fitters. The R11 9 iron is 40 degrees and pw is 45 degrees. I would like to add 3 wedges to that which do no exceed 58 degrees. Would it be a good idea to bend the pw to 44.5 and go at 4.5 degree increments to 58 degrees? Will that be my best distance gapping? I have also thought about just going 49-53-57 and no bending of the pw or 50-54-58. I will use the gap wedge (49/50) for full shots and most of my chipping, the next wedge for sand shots and some full shots, and the highest lofted wedge when I need the high ball. For what I am looking to do with the clubs, what do you think would be best? Would bending the pw and having even increments be best? Tom Wishon says very few people can bend a club to 1/2 degree increments accurately. What do you think??? Thanks!!!

With that I would either go 52*,56* or if you want 3 wedges 50,54 and 58*.

I do Trackman fittings for a friend who is a part-owner of our local shop. To me, there are some serious red flags in your numbers, several of which were noted by arydolphin. It would appear that you are not making square contact given the relatively low smash factor and fairly short carry for that strongly lofted 6 iron, yet with a pretty high max height. I understand why the fitter ended up where he/she did because this is a tough scenario.

How did the fitter do the length/lie component of the fitting? Did you get contact in the center of the face? Also, where are you located?

Pending the above information, I would be leaning towards lessons rather than new equipment as long as your current equipment is playable and not holding your swing back. If that is not your preferred course of action, I question whether the R11 head is the correct one for you.

Standard length/lie fitting - impact tape, lie board, etc...

Why don't you feel the R11 head is a good choice?

Located in Southern California.

Couple of other questions first. Did you try heads other than the R11? Also, how is your transition? Fast/hard, medium or slow?

Without seeing your swing, I'm guessing you are grabbing with your hands to start your downstroke. A shaft that is too heavy and/or too stiff can contribute to this problem depending on what your body feels. In other words, if your body says I have to swing hard to feel like I am loading this shaft, you might really pull hard during the transition.

TAZBOM said:

Standard length/lie fitting - impact tape, lie board, etc...

Why don't you feel the R11 head is a good choice?

Located in Southern California.

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Yes, I did try other heads. R11 seemed to work the best. Transition is smooth. Medium tempo.

The question I have about the R11 head in your case lies in its vertical and horizontal COGs. Its vertical COG measures pretty high on the face relative to many SGI heads, meaning you need to have your hands leading solidly at impact. Your launch monitor numbers suggest that you are cutting across the ball, thus not allowing you get through the ball - this will hurt your ball speed. Additionally, the horizontal COG is a little towards the heel and most people with your swing move miss towards the toe - again a ball speed problem. If I were working with you, I would be looking at SGI heads and would establish a baseline with one (say a G20) with a variety of shafts - from graphite to steel in both regular and stiff flexes.

TAZBOM said:

Standard length/lie fitting - impact tape, lie board, etc...

Why don't you feel the R11 head is a good choice?

Located in Southern California.

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I have tried SGI heads. They don't work for me. I do not have good turf interaction with the large soled irons. GI clubs work much better for me. Do you have any GI heads you like for me? Wouldn't the higher vertical center of gravity help a player who tends to hit the ball high?

Common sense would suggest the higher vertical COG would be helpful but in reality it hurts the quality of your impact - based on the launch monitor numbers you shared as you get less compression. Again, this is a tough fitting question, especially over the internet. Most OEMs do not offer what you seek. If you are willing to get off the beaten path a little, I would look for a Wishon dealer in your area. Depending on your taste in offset, either the 770CFE or the 870ti could be a really good fit - the 870ti irons hold the record ball speed numbers in our shop. Wishon also has a new SGI, the 765WS which has a uniquely beveled sole to make it play much narrower but I think is not available until February. My guess is you will get much better ball speed and carry numbers with one of those heads. The fitter can then tweak the shafts to deal with spin, etc.

TAZBOM said:

I have tried SGI heads. They don't work for me. I do not have good turf interaction with the large soled irons. GI clubs work much better for me. Do you have any GI heads you like for me? Wouldn't the higher vertical center of gravity help a player who tends to hit the ball high?

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Thanks for all your help with this!!! I have another question. The R11 9 iron is 40 degrees and pw is 45 degrees. I would like to add 3 wedges to that which do no exceed 57 or 58 degrees. Would it be a good idea to bend the pw to 44.5 and go at 4.5 degree increments to 58 degrees? Will that be my best distance gapping? I have also thought about just going 49-53-57 and no bending of the pw or 50-54-58. I will use the gap wedge (49/50) for full shots and most of my chipping, the next wedge for sand shots and some full shots, and the highest lofted wedge when I need the high ball - which isn't too often. For what I am looking to do with the clubs, what do you think would be best? Would bending the pw and having even increments be best? Tom Wishon says very few people can bend a club to 1/2 degree increments accurately. What do you think??? Thanks!!!

Do you prefer wedges that match your set or do you want blade style (Vokey, etc)?

I agree with Tom Wishon that bending to 1/2* increments is difficult - and quite honestly overkill. Your distance gapping between clubs (provided a 1/2 inch length change and 4* change in loft) is controlled about 75-80% with loft and 20-25% with shaft length. On Trackman, most of us in the shop see about a 10 yard gap with a 4* loft change, meaning each degree stronger is about 2 yards more of carry. So it really becomes a decision on how you want to use your 14 clubs. For some, 10 yard gapping at that end of the bag makes sense - for me, it is too tight.

TAZBOM said:

Thanks for all your help with this!!! I have another question. The R11 9 iron is 40 degrees and pw is 45 degrees. I would like to add 3 wedges to that which do no exceed 57 or 58 degrees. Would it be a good idea to bend the pw to 44.5 and go at 4.5 degree increments to 58 degrees? Will that be my best distance gapping? I have also thought about just going 49-53-57 and no bending of the pw or 50-54-58. I will use the gap wedge (49/50) for full shots and most of my chipping, the next wedge for sand shots and some full shots, and the highest lofted wedge when I need the high ball - which isn't too often. For what I am looking to do with the clubs, what do you think would be best? Would bending the pw and having even increments be best? Tom Wishon says very few people can bend a club to 1/2 degree increments accurately. What do you think??? Thanks!!!

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Doesn't the gapping at that end of the bag actually mean less per degree of loft than with the long irons? The lengths I have been fitted into are 40 degree rll 9i 35.75 inches, 45 degree R11 pw 35.5, 49 degree Cleveland 588 35.5, 53 degree 588 35.25, and 57 degree 588 35.0. Do these factors relate to 10 yards between these clubs at my swingspeed?

Roughly yes, you would be looking at 10 yards - maybe 12 yards of gapping at the maximum. If you have the room in the bag and the need, then no problem with those gaps. I would be tempted in your case to look at 50-55-60 but I know that exceeds your maximum desired loft.

TAZBOM said:

Doesn't the gapping at that end of the bag actually mean less per degree of loft than with the long irons? The lengths I have been fitted into are 40 degree rll 9i 35.75 inches, 45 degree R11 pw 35.5, 49 degree Cleveland 588 35.5, 53 degree 588 35.25, and 57 degree 588 35.0. Do these factors relate to 10 yards between these clubs at my swingspeed?

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I like the Cleveland 588's. They chip and play out of the sand well. I don't flop well over 58 degrees and really have no need to play anything higher than that. What if the R11 wedge was bent to 44 and I played a 48, 53, and 58? Then I would have 5 degree gaps at the end of the run instead. Is there any issue bending the R11 a degree strong?

That's great you have found wedges you like - quite a difficult task. Bending the PW to 44* would not be a problem and I think your gapping will be a little wider in a beneficial way.

TAZBOM said:

I like the Cleveland 588's. They chip and play out of the sand well. I don't flop well over 58 degrees and really have no need to play anything higher than that. What if the R11 wedge was bent to 44 and I played a 48, 53, and 58? Then I would have 5 degree gaps at the end of the run instead. Is there any issue bending the R11 a degree strong?

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I really want to thank you for the time you spent with me today. I really appreciate it!!! The only other thing I wanted to ask is I have been fitted into a low bounce wedge because of my flattish swing and how I did while testing them at the fittiing. Do you have any opinions on that? I will likely use the gap for chipping and full shots, the 53ish for sw and maybe some full shots, and the 57ish for lobs.

What type of divots do you take on full wedge swings?

TAZBOM said:

I really want to thank you for the time you spent with me today. I really appreciate it!!! The only other thing I wanted to ask is I have been fitted into a low bounce wedge because of my flattish swing and how I did while testing them at the fittiing. Do you have any opinions on that? I will likely use the gap for chipping and full shots, the 53ish for sw and maybe some full shots, and the 57ish for lobs.

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I play the R11 irons right now, I have the A-wedge from the R11 set at 50 degrees, then I play 54 and 58 degrees XFT wedges. I take mainly full shots with the A-wedge, that's why I went with that as an extension of the iron set. My gaps are about 10-15 yards between each club. I'm a 12-handicap, so my skill level is around the OP's skill level, and those gaps are fine for me. If I was you, I wouldn't worry about trying to change loft by a half-degree or something like that, just work on solid contact with the scoring clubs and the gaps will work themselves out.

I take medium sized divots, nothing huge, but at times I pick too.

Based on the divots and your described swing shape (flat), I would start with low bounce. Any way you can try them on grass before buying?

TAZBOM said:

I take medium sized divots, nothing huge, but at times I pick too.

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Thank you!