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What makes a golf course "women-friendly"?

Golfgal

Golfgal

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Hi everyone.
I'm back looking for advice/opinion again. If this topic has been done before, please forgive me (couldn't find it here). Just point me to the thread.

I am heading to Arizona to review 4 golf courses in about a week (haven't chosen them all yet - have a list of 10 from which to choose). The reviews are for a women's golf magazine: "Fore Her Magazine". So one of the criteria I want to use to rate the courses is "how women friendly it is".

Now that's a big question. For me, there are about 6-18 things I look for in a golf course, but I'd love to hear from both the ladies and men on this forum on what you think makes a course women friendly.

To get it started, here's one of mine.

Position of the forward tees.

Now I realize forward tees are about skill level and not about gender, but 95% of the women I know play from them and 0% of the guys do (except our son when he was 12), so let's just forget the political correctness for a minute and call them "the ladies tees" for now.

In my opinion (and I could be wrong, heaven forbid ;)), but I believe the ladies tees should be placed so that when she tees off, her ball should land roughly in the same area where the guys' balls are on the fairway. There is nothing worse than being last off the tee and first off the fairway on the 2nd shot. The courses I've played that received the GFW award had tee positions that seemed "fair" to me - ie. met the criteria I just mentioned. Those courses were fun to play because after the tee shot, it was a level playing field with the guys.

Anyway,that's one of mine. What criteria would you use to rate a course women friendly?

Thanks
Gayle
 
Gayle,
We have a member here namded knightgolf that will be your expert on this matter. He lives and is a pro in AZ and should be very helpful.
 
Women's Johnny-On-The-Spots. (Or other separate "facilities")
 
Not sure if I am supposed to answer this as it is in the Golf For Women section and not to sound mean, but a Women friendly course to me would have a Ladies bathroom and a selection of Womens items in the pro shop(shirts, clubs, balls, ect...).

Tee boxes are relative to skill level as you said, and you would likely not be hitting first after your tee shot from any tees playing with some of the guys I play with. What I mean is how do you gauge what tee distance is appropriate for a seperation of men and women, if a woman is a low handicap she may drive it further and straighter than a high handicap man and vice versa.
 
Off the top of my head (I'm not a woman, as has probably been clear for some time), there's some obvious soft (i.e., subjective) criteria, such as the general perceived attitude of the staff, members, or public who frequent the course toward women who seek to play. Then there's some hard data that could be relevant -- how many women play there as a rule (if anyone keeps track), the availability of female locker rooms (if there is a male-only locker room), whether any female pros are on staff, the availability of female equipment and clothing in the pro shop, and coed club, bar, lounge, and dining facilities. Probably the subjective will outweigh the objective, which is problematic, as the feel of a place could vary from day to day. As I said, this is off the top of my head; I'm sure CfC, soxy, ricey, GG22, CG, Julie_M, and all the other wonderful ladies around here will be able to offer a much better perspective.

Edit: agree with Craig Mac -- it's hard to say where the tee shot should land, and sex is a poor proxy for that. I heard recently that your second shot should be a 7 iron from some of the par 4s if you're playing the right tees for you.
 
What Ive noticed at some of the nicer courses around here is that they position all of the tees with scenic tee boxes where usually there is a pretty big carry to hit the fairway. Then when you drive up to find your ball, you notice the womens tees have this lame location right on the right of the fairway. I would be pretty pissed if they charged me 150 bucks and stuck me with those tee boxes. Ive noticed the resorts do a better job of making the forward tees nicer.
 
Just off the top of my head--I'm sure I'll return with more:

Agree with what's been said about tee boxes. Many forward tee boxes eliminate all challenge on the hole, whether it's water, a dogleg, or whatever. We like our drives--at least sometimes--to involve more than hitting the ball straight.

The seven iron/ball landing in the same spot issue gets sticky. I've heard it suggested that forward tees be set so everyone can use the same club for the second shot, rather than everyone landing in about the same place. I use my 7 iron a lot closer in than most men I know--I'd be using a 3 or 4 hybrid from where many of them (claim to) use a seven iron. That makes it far more likely I'm going to have a tougher putt. On the other hand, let's not get ridiculous. I honestly don't know what the answer is there (other than me gaining a lot of distance, which would suit me just fine).

Ball washers by forward tees, too. Ditto water.

A ranger who doesn't automatically assume female = slow play. A ranger on my tail is more likely to ruin the round for me than anything else.

MORE port-a-johns.

Mostly, though, I want the same thing the guys do--a fun, challenging, beautiful golf course and good company with which to play.
 
The course should have several women's ratings on different tee boxes. I think courses should have at least 3 sets of ratings for women. A shorter set of tees around 4,800-5,200 yards, a middle set around 5,700, and a set around 6,100. The shorter sets should be integrated into the course and not some tacked on spot.

It's always nice to see more than 1 or 2 racks of women's apparel in the pro shop too.

Ranger's attitude is important too. Just because I'm a women, don't assume I'll be hitting from the forward tees or that I'm the shorter hitter of the group.

On course restroom facilities are a must, not a porta-potty either.

The one thing I would like to see is better food at the snack bar or on the beverage cart. For example, at Walt Disney World, they offered some kind of wrap on their beverage cart instead of just the usual sandwich and hot dog.
 
Welcome to THP Rancho.
 
I would think that the attitude of the staff and the people playing at the course would be really important to a woman.
Im sure many of you ladies wouldnt want to play at a course that has a, "boy's club" atmosphere where the men are gawking at you, making suggestive comments and catcalls all the time.
Im sure that all you ladies want to be able to play on a course where you are treated as an equal and can feel comfortable and safe.
 
The tee boxes: Not just the location for distance of the drive, but are they on flat ground, are they groomed, are they facing the same direction (meaning towards the middle of the fairway, not into the woods!) as the back tees. I think a lot of "ladies tees" are an after thought and are often forgotten.

Like Claire said: ball washers and water in an accessible place near the front tees.

And in agreement with Rancho, healthier food options and women's handicap rating for all the tees. I often play the whites and need to know the course ratings and slope for those tees rated for women golfers.

Yes, some options in the pro shop. I have forgotten my golf shoes before and was very pleased to find the club I was going to had options for me. Also golf gloves, no one seems to carry women's gloves at courses.

I agree with Claire's point about the location of the tee boxes not being so that the drives all land in the same place, but so that everyone is using the same club for their second shot. The average woman golfer drives the ball 150 yards. Say she hits her drive the same distances as a guy playing with her which puts them both about 150 yards from the pin. He is probably hitting a 7 iron and she is hitting her 3 wood...and coming up short. That doesn't really seem fair. Of course longer hitting women would get a huge advantage, which is why people should play the correct tees for their handicap and distance, not their gender.

Those are the few I could think of off the top of my head, I will revisit if more come up!
 
I've not read the responses above this one, but if it hasn't been said:

I hate when a blue/black tee begins with a nice drive, then a hazard to avoid around the second shot. But from the red tees, a drive around 200 yards drops you right into the river, so you have to either be Superwoman or lay up, which isn't fun since you're already long-drive challenged and could use the boost. (It's the same kind of scenario with dog legs.) There's two courses here I can think of right away that do that quite a bit. Drives me nuts.

Clean restrooms.
Spoiler
(We have to sit, no options.)

Women's balls and sunglasses in the pro shop.

Men in the drink cart. (A girl can dream!) Seriously, though, it's 80% staff.

If I had to divide it into categories, for your article:
1. Accessibility/Ease of play
2. Accommodations (Features/merchandise/etc)
3. Staff
 
Bakemono said:
I would think that the attitude of the staff and the people playing at the course would be really important to a woman. Im sure that all you ladies want to be able to play on a course where you are treated as an equal and can feel comfortable and safe.
Click to expand...

Ditto - This should be reinforced with staff.
 
julie_m said:
I've not read the responses above this one, but if it hasn't been said:

I hate when a blue/black tee begins with a nice drive, then a hazard to avoid around the second shot. But from the red tees, a drive around 200 yards drops you right into the river, so you have to either be Superwoman or lay up, which isn't fun since you're already long-drive challenged and could use the boost. (It's the same kind of scenario with dog legs.) There's two courses here I can think of right away that do that quite a bit. Drives me nuts.

Clean restrooms.
Spoiler
(We have to sit, no options.)

Women's balls and sunglasses in the pro shop.

Men in the drink cart. (A girl can dream!) Seriously, though, it's 80% staff.

If I had to divide it into categories, for your article:
1. Accessibility/Ease of play
2. Accommodations (Features/merchandise/etc)
3. Staff
Click to expand...

At one of the courses I played at in Maui had a guy on the snack cart, although he didn't know anything about golf, drove off right in my swing. :angry:
 
Golfgal said:
Smallville...they call it "johnny" for a reason - NOT women friendly ;)
We want real facilities.
Click to expand...

They aren't men friendly either if you want to know the truth.
 
ClairefromClare said:
Just off the top of my head--I'm sure I'll return with more:

Agree with what's been said about tee boxes. Many forward tee boxes eliminate all challenge on the hole, whether it's water, a dogleg, or whatever. We like our drives--at least sometimes--to involve more than hitting the ball straight.

The seven iron/ball landing in the same spot issue gets sticky. I've heard it suggested that forward tees be set so everyone can use the same club for the second shot, rather than everyone landing in about the same place. I use my 7 iron a lot closer in than most men I know--I'd be using a 3 or 4 hybrid from where many of them (claim to) use a seven iron. That makes it far more likely I'm going to have a tougher putt. On the other hand, let's not get ridiculous. I honestly don't know what the answer is there (other than me gaining a lot of distance, which would suit me just fine).

Ball washers by forward tees, too. Ditto water.

A ranger who doesn't automatically assume female = slow play. A ranger on my tail is more likely to ruin the round for me than anything else.

MORE port-a-johns.

Mostly, though, I want the same thing the guys do--a fun, challenging, beautiful golf course and good company with which to play.
Click to expand...

Thanks Claire! I totally agree with what you've said. Let me add to the the point on landing area and which club we should hit next....I have no problem if I have to hit a hybrid or even a FW wood to hit the green on a par 4 while a man hits an iron. I just think I should be able to get there with something. Remember, forward tees aren't about being female - they are about skill level. And from the forward tees, with higher handicaps, it should not be surprising if the players doesn't get a GIR every time.
 
JB said:
Gayle,
We have a member here namded knightgolf that will be your expert on this matter. He lives and is a pro in AZ and should be very helpful.
Click to expand...

thanks JB!
 
Rancho_Golfer said:
The course should have several women's ratings on different tee boxes. I think courses should have at least 3 sets of ratings for women. A shorter set of tees around 4,800-5,200 yards, a middle set around 5,700, and a set around 6,100. The shorter sets should be integrated into the course and not some tacked on spot.

It's always nice to see more than 1 or 2 racks of women's apparel in the pro shop too.

Ranger's attitude is important too. Just because I'm a women, don't assume I'll be hitting from the forward tees or that I'm the shorter hitter of the group.

On course restroom facilities are a must, not a porta-potty either.

The one thing I would like to see is better food at the snack bar or on the beverage cart. For example, at Walt Disney World, they offered some kind of wrap on their beverage cart instead of just the usual sandwich and hot dog.
Click to expand...

Yes!!! You have so much right, it's scary :)
 
Bakemono said:
I would think that the attitude of the staff and the people playing at the course would be really important to a woman.
Im sure many of you ladies wouldnt want to play at a course that has a, "boy's club" atmosphere where the men are gawking at you, making suggestive comments and catcalls all the time.
Im sure that all you ladies want to be able to play on a course where you are treated as an equal and can feel comfortable and safe.
Click to expand...

You got that right Bakemono!
 
As posted above the attitude of the staff should not be gender biased. A women friendly course should display their friendly attitudes with more women employees. How about female starters, female counter help where you pay your green fees? A lady course marshal? If women golfers would see more women employees where they play, they might feel the course is more women friendly.

Then again it is a two way street. Example; I applied for a job as a starter/course marshal. I passed their written test, their interview, and was hired. Afterwards, I was told "off the record" that I needed to be extra careful with some ladies who were members of the Womens Golf Club. One wrong word, or gesture, no matter how harmless, would get the golf course in trouble for sexual harassment. As it turned out I never work at the golf course, so I never saw this issue first hand. But never the less there are some women who can ruin certain situations for other women. :confused2:

For the record I have no problem with women in the work place or on the golf course. I have golfed with women who showed up as a single golfer. i have even been out played by a few women golfers. No problem. I once hired the first women employee to do a job that historically was dominated by men. I caught some flack from senior management, until it was quite clear that the lady I hired was doing a better job than her male counterparts.
 
julie_m said:
I've not read the responses above this one, but if it hasn't been said:

I hate when a blue/black tee begins with a nice drive, then a hazard to avoid around the second shot. But from the red tees, a drive around 200 yards drops you right into the river, so you have to either be Superwoman or lay up, which isn't fun since you're already long-drive challenged and could use the boost. (It's the same kind of scenario with dog legs.) There's two courses here I can think of right away that do that quite a bit. Drives me nuts.

Clean restrooms.
Spoiler
(We have to sit, no options.)

Women's balls and sunglasses in the pro shop.

Men in the drink cart. (A girl can dream!) Seriously, though, it's 80% staff.

If I had to divide it into categories, for your article:
1. Accessibility/Ease of play
2. Accommodations (Features/merchandise/etc)
3. Staff
Click to expand...


haha...Julie, you are great. But if I hit 200 yards every time and ended up in the water, I'd be happy a golfgal :) And then, I'd move back to the whites :)
 
A lot of people are speaking about staff and friendliness towards women. I agree with this 100%. However some are speaking of more females on staff. Keep in mind that that is not always the clubs choice. There are still far more male golfers in this country than female. And that goes with staff as well.

I asked my club about this very issue and they said they have not had a woman apply for a staff position other than restaurant in almost 11 months. And our club is extremely female friendly. They have an entire section of the pro shop for women. Apparel, clubs, shoes, etc...They have a great ladies locker room. They also hold a womens clinic every Saturday Morning. And last every Sunday at 3pm, the course is closed for the ladies.

But some requests are just not feasible because if the course does not get enough female play than the changes that are requested cost too much to make.
 
Golfgal said:
Smallville...they call it "johnny" for a reason - NOT women friendly ;)
We want real facilities.
Click to expand...

So do we GolfGal, so do we!
But that's all most places have, for anyone. I've seen some semi-real facilities on the course but not too often.
 
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