% of golfers with your handicap

Glad you got your HDCP figured out.

I would procrastinate right now, but I'd rather wait until tomorrow.
 
I say the women are more honest than the men.
 
I say the women are more honest than the men.

Do you really think the guys aren't being honest? What is the point of getting a handicap if it isn't your real score? All that would do would hurt you on the course?:confused2:

I think it is more that if guys aren't that good, they don't register for a handicap. Whereas women aren't as self conscious about not having a low score so they get one either way.

I was also thinking that a lot of women golfers play in leagues which may require a handicap. I don't know a single guy golfer who plays in a league. Why is that?
 
Pride? Actually, people who are keeping an "official" handicap are better than people who keep "unofficial" handicaps. Still it surprises me that 90% of all men who keep an official handicap break 100 semi regularly. I figured the men's stats would look more like the women's stats.
 
Do you really think the guys aren't being honest? What is the point of getting a handicap if it isn't your real score? All that would do would hurt you on the course?:confused2:

Vanity, it's cool to tell others how low your handicap is I suppose.

I personally think the handicap system is goofy, I use oobgolf to track mine & it claims I am lower than what I feel it should be. I think too much is made of the slope of a course in figuring out handicaps.
 
Pride? Actually, people who are keeping an "official" handicap are better than people who keep "unofficial" handicaps. Still it surprises me that 90% of all men who keep an official handicap break 100 semi regularly. I figured the mens stats would look more like the women's stats.

Maybe they just don't enter any bad scores? The whole GHIN deal is skewed since it's up to the individual to enter their scores.

Personally I would enter the bad ones so you can be a sandbagger in events:D
 
Maybe they just don't enter any bad scores? The whole GHIN deal is skewed since it's up to the individual to enter their scores.

Personally I would enter the bad ones so you can be a sandbagger in events:D


This is a good point...actually the club I use to belong to would not let you enter your scores online (they are part of the GHIN system but clubs have an option to set it up this way)...plus when you turned in a score card it had to be signed, dated and another member had to attest to your score and the club would enter it (applying ESC). I guess they had some major sandbagging going on for their member events???
 
I personally think the handicap system is goofy, I use oobgolf to track mine & it claims I am lower than what I feel it should be. I think too much is made of the slope of a course in figuring out handicaps.

I hear you but any system you come up with to determine the difference between golfers will have issues. The whole point of the USGA system is to show a golfers potential...thereby, having a system for determining tournament qualifications. I think as long as we are all using a consistent system it does what it is designed to do...just my 2 cents...:cool:
 
I am a high 7 handicap. What I have noticed is that the higher the handicap the higher the likelihood that the golfer does not record their score properly. Sometimes it involves not counting penalty strokes, or taking free mulligans. For others it is not understanding the rules. For example, a lot of decent golfers just go up to where their ball went OB and hit 3 from there. I know this is sometimes done for the sake of fast play, but many times it is not. Those who are better golfers usually understand the rules better, because they care more. I know this is not always true, but I think generally it is. Usually I just don't say much unless asked by my playing partners. If they want to think they shot a 92 instead of a 94 what does it hurt anyway, they are never going to be pros anyway. If it is a better player I'm playing with I'll tell them my understanding of what should happen. I usually ask my friend, who is a better golfer, if I'm not sure about the rule. Anyway, the reality is there should probably be a bigger gap with it more heavily weighted on the up side. More people with 15+ handicaps then actually report, do to recording error with their scores.
 
I think for someone who is trying to improve it is kind of messed up too. For example, I have shot two rounds of 76 in the last few months (nothing above 84). Until recently I was an 8 handicap. The handicap system is supposed to tell you what your potential is. You are supposed to be able to score to your potential 1/4 of the time. So on my par 70 course, I should be shooting 78, every four times out. The probability of shooting below your handicap is supposed to be very low; however, I have shot 6 over twice recently. Therefore, it is miss-judging my potential. Of course, it is simply a math equation, so I guess we can't expect it to be perfect. I guess it factors in improvement as you continue to record more scores (recently dropped into the 7 category). You might notice that your scores start getting closer to your handicap too, the more scores you keep adding.
 
Soxy-

I'm a little confused (no surprise there, huh?)

The second column is % of people with that exact index, and the third column is % of people with that index or better?

For example:



For a 10 index, 4.66% of the total number of people with official USGA handicap indexes have an index of 10 (presumably, 10.00 to 10.99), and 25.10% of the total number of people with an index have an index of 10 or better?


I find it interesting that only 1.36% of men report the maximum index (36+) while 13.84% of women report having the maximum index (40+). Methinks there are a lot of men with vanity handicaps.

Yes, I would say so. Otherwise, over 90% break 100 semi regularly! Riiiight! I don't know the correct stats, but if everyone were honest I would guess it's closer to 50%.

For the record, I don't have an official handicap.

It's been my experience that a larger percentage of unskilled male golfers than female do not even carry a handicap. The pride issue is there, also apprehension. Many of the potentially high handicappers I meet have never even considered getting a handicap and joining a club or league because they think that they have to be better players before they take that step. Most women don't seem to have those same fears.

As far shooting to one's handicap in a competition... you aren't supposed to play at or better than your handicap more than 20% - 25% of the time. If you do better than that on a regular basis, then you are a sandbagger. If your game is improving and you do shoot better than your handicap, it will steadily improve until you do reach that 20% number. A player failing to shoot to his cap by 3 or 4 strokes is the expected result most of the time for a player with an honest handicap.
 
It's been my experience that a larger percentage of unskilled male golfers than female do not even carry a handicap. The pride issue is there, also apprehension. Many of the potentially high handicappers I meet have never even considered getting a handicap and joining a club or league because they think that they have to be better players before they take that step. Most women don't seem to have those same fears.

I agree with you Fourputt about the men, but in my experience women have the same fears - they just learn to overcome them in part because most other women are more encouraging to a new golfer.
 
It's been my experience that a larger percentage of unskilled male golfers than female do not even carry a handicap. The pride issue is there, also apprehension. Many of the potentially high handicappers I meet have never even considered getting a handicap and joining a club or league because they think that they have to be better players before they take that step. Most women don't seem to have those same fears.

As far shooting to one's handicap in a competition... you aren't supposed to play at or better than your handicap more than 20% - 25% of the time. If you do better than that on a regular basis, then you are a sandbagger. If your game is improving and you do shoot better than your handicap, it will steadily improve until you do reach that 20% number. A player failing to shoot to his cap by 3 or 4 strokes is the expected result most of the time for a player with an honest handicap.

My guess is that most regular golfers, say 3-4 times per month at least, don't even keep one. And that would be even more true the less skilled the player.
 
I'd keep a handicap if my course had a rating and a slope rating but no one seems to know what it is.
 
I'd keep a handicap if my course had a rating and a slope rating but no one seems to know what it is.

Some courses aren't rated or are only rated from one set of tees.
 
Looks like Stina Sternberg has been pondering the same "why are women's handicaps higher" question:

Why Are Men Better?

10.07.09 | 2:21 PM

When sifting through my "Ask Stina" inbox the other day, I came across this e-mail from Sylvie in Canada:
There's a question that's really puzzling me: Why is the average handicap so much higher for women than for men?

Women: 80% of women who hold a USGA handicap have a handicap of 20 or more. Only 2.7% of women have a handicap of 10 or less. USGA: Women's USGA Handicap Indexes

Men: 75% of men who hold a USGA handicap have a handicap of 20 or less. 25% of men have a handicap of 10 or less. USGA: Men's USGA Handicap Indexes
Sylvie then referred me to her own thoughts on the matter (some borrowed from "Gwladys Nocera's coach"), posted on her blog at stracka.com. Her possible reasons for men's higher handicap averages include the following:

  • Most golf courses are too long for women, which often means that a woman will need to hit a 5-wood to the green when a man hits a 6-iron. It makes a world of difference, because the ball trajectory and the accuracy are obviously not the same. It's true that I often see women hitting hybrids on par 3s when a man will use a short iron or even a wedge.

  • Women are not educated in ball sports. They're pushed toward dance or yoga or that kind of things. So they don't develop the same abilities as the boys who play football or hockey or baseball from a very young age.

  • Women have been raised to be nice and follow the rules. They end up having a less creative short game than men, which hurts their score.

  • Women are more emotional than men and it hurts them on the course (I 100% agree).

  • This sport has been predominently male for a long time. There are more and more female players, but they're fairly new to the game, so they don't have as much experience as the men.

  • Women often take up the sport because their spouse is a golfer and they just want to be with him on the course. They don't care about excelling at it.

  • Women are busy raising children, working, taking care of the house and al. and so they don't have time to practice and play.

  • They don't have time to train because they're too busy doing photo shoots in skimpy clothes (a personal rant, never mind :p)"
I agree with Sylvie on some points: Golf-course yardages are in many cases patently unfair to women. Women may not grow up playing ball sports to the same extent men do (although no one ever pushed dance or yoga down my throat as a kid -- on the contrary, my ultra-liberal mother took me to hockey lessons when I told her I wanted to try figure skating). And women in general have very busy schedules and can't allow golf to become a priority (probably because their husbands already have dibs on being the golf-obsessed spouse, and the kids would starve if both parents abandoned them on Saturdays and Sundays). I also agree that a lot of women are new to the game and thus still on the steep end of the learning curve.

However, I don't agree with the argument that women "don't care about excelling." That's pure hogwash. We care a lot, and while we may not throw clubs or drop f-bombs every time we miss a shot (okay, present company excluded), we are extremely competitive. Have you ever spent a few hours with the thursday-afternoon ladies' 18-holer group at your local golf club? I defy you to find a more cut-throat group of competitors in the world.

And there are some other simple answers to why the average handicap of women golfers is higher than that of men. For starters, we're more honest. We post every score, even the bad ones. I have yet to meet a woman with a vanity handicap, but I know many guys who prefer to keep their more unfortunate scores to themselves. I'm not calling them cheaters, but I think they're good at "forgetting" to post scores that might cause a blow to their Index. Women also count every stroke, hole out on every hole, and -- yes -- follow the rules. We don't hit a drive O.B., take a mulligan or a drop by the fence where the ball went out, then record a 4.

Plus, there are fewer competitive opportunities for good women golfers. A lot of amateur men hone their skills in competitions and leagues where they play against similarly skilled players, while most single-digit-handicap women are not allowed to compete against the guys and have a tough time finding women's tourneys that challenge them.

As for Sylvie's dig about LPGA players posing nude in a national publication, our opinions definitely differ on that point. I say more power to them. But that's a different post.

--Stina Sternberg
 
Competition, not $10 between you and your buddies on a comfortable layout you have played 100 times, but real competition with total strangers on a golf course that most of the players have maybe never seen before the start of the event really separates the good players from the bad, regardless of handicap. I have a 5 handicap and can shoot practice rounds in the low 70s on my home course from the back tees. The best round in competition I have ever had is a 79, big difference. At least 7 or 8 shots worse than my best 'comfortable' or 'casual' rounds. All players should have a handicap period in my opinion. It is easy to get one, there are thousands of online clubs that will issue them. You do need to play a course with a rating once in a while, if you are not then make a point of playing one once a month or every other month for a year and you will have a handicap after your 6th score is posted and once the revision date fro the club passes. A handicap is both an advantage to you when you are playing against a better player and it also is the absolute best way to know if you are making any progress with your game. It is free to get one and all it takes is keeping and posting a few scores once in a while. If you aren't keeping score then how do you know how well you are doing out there?
 
* Women are not educated in ball sports. They're pushed toward dance or yoga or that kind of things. So they don't develop the same abilities as the boys who play football or hockey or baseball from a very young age.

Possibly to some degree but not as much anymore.

* Women have been raised to be nice and follow the rules. They end up having a less creative short game than men, which hurts their score.

I think this person needs to look closer at todays reality and see that this is absolutely NOT the case.

* Women are more emotional than men and it hurts them on the course (I 100% agree).

Very much agree, but that is a large generalization and there are quite a few men that are just as or more emotional than women.

* Women often take up the sport because their spouse is a golfer and they just want to be with him on the course. They don't care about excelling at it.


Absolutely absurd!

* Women are busy raising children, working, taking care of the house and al. and so they don't have time to practice and play.

This one right here basically sums up the entire piece. This person is obviously writing about a generation from the lost era, because this is just not the overwhelming case anymore. Sure in some areas it is dominant, just like some areas fathers do this as well. But to generalize like this really shows me that this article is nothing more than a feminist point of view and they have not done any searching or researching about the idea.
 
* Women are busy raising children, working, taking care of the house and al. and so they don't have time to practice and play.

This one right here basically sums up the entire piece. This person is obviously writing about a generation from the lost era, because this is just not the overwhelming case anymore. Sure in some areas it is dominant, just like some areas fathers do this as well. But to generalize like this really shows me that this article is nothing more than a feminist point of view and they have not done any searching or researching about the idea.

Exactly what I was thinking as I read this.

The most competitive golfer I play with is my sister. No mulligans with her.

I spent most of this summer (my first on the links) using the score card to figure out the course, no score recorded. Toward the end of summer I started keeping score. Wish I had started earlier. Now I'm off to figure out the handicap deal. Mostly to gauge my improvement.
 
I am a high 7 handicap. What I have noticed is that the higher the handicap the higher the likelihood that the golfer does not record their score properly. Sometimes it involves not counting penalty strokes, or taking free mulligans. For others it is not understanding the rules. For example, a lot of decent golfers just go up to where their ball went OB and hit 3 from there. I know this is sometimes done for the sake of fast play, but many times it is not. Those who are better golfers usually understand the rules better, because they care more. I know this is not always true, but I think generally it is. Usually I just don't say much unless asked by my playing partners. If they want to think they shot a 92 instead of a 94 what does it hurt anyway, they are never going to be pros anyway. If it is a better player I'm playing with I'll tell them my understanding of what should happen. I usually ask my friend, who is a better golfer, if I'm not sure about the rule. Anyway, the reality is there should probably be a bigger gap with it more heavily weighted on the up side. More people with 15+ handicaps then actually report, do to recording error with their scores.

Well written and I could not agree more...this is definitely one of the issues with the handicap system in that the people entering their scores need to know "all" the rules and understand ESC etc...I cannot tell you how many 8 handicaps I have met in my life just to finally get to play with them or see them in play (scramble tournament) and if they can break 90 then I get beat Tiger in a round of golf. And I think a couple things have driven them to say they are an 8 handicap as follows:

1) Once they shot 80 on a golf course with a par of 72 (80-72= 8 so they think that is their potential)...when all of us know that depending on the slope, rating and ESC calculation that 8 over could calculate out to be a 6 index or a 10 and that you need to have a minimum of 5 score to get a handicap (best is 20 scores to see where your handicap really is)

2) To bmoody16 points above they do not know the rules and hit 4 balls out of bounds and just went to where it went out and either dropped a ball and said they are hitting three from there but better yet I have seen them drop it and say they are hitting two...:confused2:

Just my 2 cents...:thumb:
 
Keep in mind this is of course the percentage of golfers who have registered for a handicap. I think it is safe to assume that a fair amount of higher handicap golfers have not registered with the USGA.
The majority of golfers don't keep an HI. According to golf guru Frank Thomas, the average score still hovers around 100.
 
I play with some guys who literally claim to be single digit handicappers and I regularly play better than them. They dont like to play with me because I make them take penalties and I force them to follow the rules when taking score. So they always have an excuse of why they shot an 85 instead of a 75. But everytime they play and I'm not a round I hear them telling people in the clubhouse they shot 3 over for the day. I just bite my tongue b/c one day they will get blackballed out of the club for cheating and I will be one happy camper.
 
* Women often take up the sport because their spouse is a golfer and they just want to be with him on the course. They don't care about excelling at it

My wife is that way.
 
There's obviously a huge selection bias here.

Why track the handicap until you're reasonably likely to come in under at 36? I would suspect that between rules misunderstandings, general infrequency of play, and ESC... we bad golfers just don't bother.

(said the 36+ unofficial handicapper... which is more soul-crushing, hitting the 12 or being adjusted back down to 10 because noone should be so terrible?)
 
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