We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Are there ceilings?

Shook

Shook

Shooktacular
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
840
Reaction score
0
Location
Kansas
Handicap
12
I was pondering lately about potential and how far one can really go. Can someone make it to the PGA tour if their golf game isn't like all the other pros? I know Jim Furyk was told that he would need to change his swing to be a pro, but it turns out he made it work. So here's a list of questions I came up with:

Is there a ceiling on swing speed? If your speed is only 90-95 can you make it to the PGA tour?

Is there a ceiling on game improvement clubs? Can they improve your game enough to become a scratch golfer?

Is there a ceiling on distance? Can you even survive a PGA event if your drives max out at 240 yards?

Is there a ceiling on shaft flex? It seems like all tour pros use x-flex. How good can you get with regular flex?

These questions don't all apply to me. But I was curious.
 
There certainly are ceilings for the PGA tour. Take a guy like Justin Leonard, multiple winner, Ryder Cup hero but was a shorter hitter 10 years ago. As course distances have grown his length has not and on many courses the tour plays he can not be competitive. Justin is a 260 to 270 driver of the ball.
 
Shook said:
If your speed is only 90-95 can you make it to the PGA tour?
Can they (GI clubs) improve your game enough to become a scratch golfer?
Can you even survive a PGA event if your drives max out at 240 yards?
How good can you get with regular flex?
Click to expand...
No.
No.
No.
Very good.
 
Shook said:
I appreciate the succinct straightforward answers :)
Click to expand...

The shortest regular players on tour are at 278.5. Driving the ball 240 means you are giving up almost 40 yards per hole (14 holes) to the shortest players. I think it is impossible.

There are 5 courses on tour under 7K. I think it is virtually impossible to play courses of this distance at PGA Tour levels when driving the ball 240.
 
What about the web.com tour?
 
tequila4kapp said:
No.
No.
No.
Very good.
Click to expand...

Totally agree,
1. No. Distance you would be leaving on the table would be immense.
2. No. The clubs may make you more consistent. Practice and hard work have a greater chance of making you a scratch golfer.
3. No. See #1
4. Good Enough. Shaft flex shouldn't have anything to do with how good you can be. The proper shaft will help elevate your current skills hopefully.

The amount of work you put in will dictate how good you are/can be. Gear will be a portion of that, but switching irons won't automatically make you leaps-and-bounds better.
 
Interesting questions.

swing your swing
 
Yes there are ceilings. When you play with or against really good players that aren't in your it should tell you something. If you aren't close to them in a consistent basis you have your first ceiling.
If you work 9-5 then you have another ceiling
If you swing 95 mph that another ceiling.
If you are currently grooving a repeatable swing, another ceiling.

I could keep going. Mini tour player spends hours working on their game, have swing coaches, live off cans of soup all for the goal of making the tour. These guys have ceilings as well and a handful will make it to the web.com.

It takes a very special breed to make it on tour at any level. Most weekend warriors can hope for low single digit hdcps and that's with hours and hours of work.
 
tequila4kapp said:
There are 5 courses on tour under 7K. I think it is virtually impossible to play courses of this distance at PGA Tour levels when driving the ball 240.
Click to expand...

This is it, you cannot have 250 yards left in to a par 4 especially if you cannot hit your driver that far, imagine if there is water before the green
 
Those are some great questions that I have been pondering recently. My improvement has been coming fast this year and I find myself wondering how far could I go if I actually spent untold hours practicing. Deep down I realize it's all just a fantasy and I have come to the realistic conclusion that a great website like THP and their outings and amazing members are the best I can hope for. I'm looking forward to getting more active here and learning as much as I can about how things work here.
 
I'm at one now. I've played more golf than ever this year but scores basically haven't changed for 20 years. I'm a bogey golfer unless I wanna practice. I don't wanna practice; ergo, I am what I am.
 
There are two things being overlooked here.
1st do not understate the conditions on the tour and how they attribute to driving distance.
There are guys on tour with a 105 or slightly less swing speed that have multiple wins.

2nd is that the deck is stacked against one already, then add being in the bottom third of distance and you have a very stacked deck.
However there are many things that can increase distance and a good instructor can assist with that.

As to another question about the OP about being a scratch golfer with game improvement clubs. The answer is yes.

And not all pros use X flex...But ALL TOUR PROS get fit for their clubs.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Yes there are ceilings. When you play with or against really good players that aren't in your it should tell you something. If you aren't close to them in a consistent basis you have your first ceiling.
If you work 9-5 then you have another ceiling
If you swing 95 mph that another ceiling.
If you are currently grooving a repeatable swing, another ceiling.

I could keep going. Mini tour player spends hours working on their game, have swing coaches, live off cans of soup all for the goal of making the tour. These guys have ceilings as well and a handful will make it to the web.com.

It takes a very special breed to make it on tour at any level. Most weekend warriors can hope for low single digit hdcps and that's with hours and hours of work.
Click to expand...
These are great points! Once being a single capper in the past and losing my way (more of a mental thing than a physical thing). It's difficult for sure.
 
I don't think people appreciate how good the tour players really are. Part of their greatness is they make it look easy. My analogy is that the average scratch player is like an all conference basketball or baseball player at an NAIA level school - they are way better than average and they are still light years from the NBA or majors.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I don't think people appreciate how good the tour players really are. Part of their greatness is they make it look easy. My analogy is that the average scratch player is like an all conference basketball or baseball player at an NAIA level school - they are way better than average and they are still light years from the NBA or majors.
Click to expand...

I think that's a fair assessment for the most part. The difference is (IMO) that a scratch player will have his (or her) rounds that look and feel like a PGA Tour round. They may shoot in the 60's, but they aren't doing it on a course like, and set up like, the Tour. A lot of scratch players (myself included) have had some great rounds, but by no means do I feel I can jump to the Tour. You want to see how good you really are, just try to Monday qualify for a Web.com event, or try to qualify for the US Open. That's a humbling experience a lot of time, trust me!
 
tequila4kapp said:
I don't think people appreciate how good the tour players really are. Part of their greatness is they make it look easy. My analogy is that the average scratch player is like an all conference basketball or baseball player at an NAIA level school - they are way better than average and they are still light years from the NBA or majors.
Click to expand...

Funny, I actually went to an NAIA school. Coach asked me to walk on to the golf team (no more scholarships available), but I declined because I had too much going on. I always regretted that. I probably could have benefitted immensely even if I was never the star.
 
Shook said:
Funny, I actually went to an NAIA school. Coach asked me to walk on to the golf team (no more scholarships available), but I declined because I had too much going on. I always regretted that. I probably could have benefitted immensely even if I was never the star.
Click to expand...
I had a sniff from one for a baseball scholly :)
 
Shook said:
I was pondering lately about potential and how far one can really go. Can someone make it to the PGA tour if their golf game isn't like all the other pros? I know Jim Furyk was told that he would need to change his swing to be a pro, but it turns out he made it work. So here's a list of questions I came up with:

Is there a ceiling on swing speed? If your speed is only 90-95 can you make it to the PGA tour?

Is there a ceiling on game improvement clubs? Can they improve your game enough to become a scratch golfer?

Is there a ceiling on distance? Can you even survive a PGA event if your drives max out at 240 yards?

Is there a ceiling on shaft flex? It seems like all tour pros use x-flex. How good can you get with regular flex?

These questions don't all apply to me. But I was curious.
Click to expand...
I think that elite golfers and other professionals are in a league of their own. The drive and the the ability to practice and focus, makes them unique. Much like Nascar, baseball, football. ETC...
The amount of practice they put in is amazing.
As far as game improvement golf clubs. Not a chance. There is not a club head made, bought of the rack or fit out of a PING, Titleist, Cleveland, ETC... fit cart, that will perform as well as a professionally fitted set of clubs. EVERY PGA pro on tour has been fit. It takes hours to do a proper fitting.
Shaft flex is not based on swing speed alone. there are many other criteria that are taken into consideration. Driver shaft will not add more distance, than hitting the center of the face.
When people say they are adding 20 yards of distance, it is because they are closer to on center strikes, as a result of getting closer to the right fit.
The club head is more hindering than a shaft any time. The wrong club head, then the wrong fit. No shaft can make up for this.
Look at Guan Tian-Lang. A very young gentleman who made a PGA tour event.
 
tequila4kapp said:
No.
No.
No.
Very good.
Click to expand...

The only thing I'm gonna disagree with you on is the no to GI irons. There are plenty of scratch guys out there that play the Ping G series, KJ Choi almost won The Masters with G15's I think and Dufner won the PGA with AP2's I believe which are considered GI irons. I'm not saying I'm gonna take my G10's and become a scratch player but they've helped my game immensely and I've only seen improvement. You can make the argument that you need to work the ball to get to that level but I could argue that I could also argue that working the ball can get you in more trouble than its worth and that you should stick to your stock shot shape for consistently. But that's just my opinion and I respect yours.
 
BogeyMan60 said:
The only thing I'm gonna disagree with you on is the no to GI irons. There are plenty of scratch guys out there that play the Ping G series, KJ Choi almost won The Masters with G15's I think and Dufner won the PGA with AP2's I believe which are considered GI irons. I'm not saying I'm gonna take my G10's and become a scratch player but they've helped my game immensely and I've only seen improvement. You can make the argument that you need to work the ball to get to that level but I could argue that I could also argue that working the ball can get you in more trouble than its worth and that you should stick to your stock shot shape for consistently. But that's just my opinion and I respect yours.
Click to expand...

Bringing up KJ reminds me that he bought a set off the rack before an event last year. I'm sure he's been fitted since but...
 
I believe the question was whether or not GI clubs could make you a scratch player. I don't believe that is possible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top