Pace of play - walking versus riding

You guys that like to walk make these statements as if they are fact. I play in a men's group on the weekends and 90% of the guys walk. We play 430-500hr rounds on the regular. The clog has nothing to do with walking or riding but player. SLOW PLAY IS SLOW PLAY, no matter how you look at it. Based on my experience you fit golfer slow play down more, sowering yourselves with complements about being fit between shots :alien2:

You walkers are just as responsible for slow play as riders.
Of course a singleton driving on an empty course can play faster than a singleton walking the same course in the same conditions. No contest, no argument. But the question is not about how fast the fastest and best players could go on the best days with the best vehicles. It's about who causes the clogs that create slow play and why.

That's a different story and it causes me to agree with bald guy. Clogs on courses are usually caused by riders, not walkers. My reasons for thinking this are based on my years working as a course marshal. Slow play on a Muni on any given day can usually be attributed to a "clog" somewhere on the course. Unclog the clog and pace picks up across the nine. These clogs are almost always caused by a single slow foursome (or moresome) riding in carts. Sometimes they are composed of skilled golfers engaged in a grinding, overly-serious match, but more often than not they are caused by newbies in carts who don't know any better or who have drunk a little too much.

For them golf is a rare outing akin to a celebration. They always rent carts because they are not used to walking, they think it's the thing you do, and they want to have fun driving the little Disney cars. They bring their wives, kids, and the beer. They don't know where to park them or how to get a couple of clubs and walk to the ball. They drive to one ball, hit, then drive to the next (even if it's only ten yards sidewise), then hit the second. They rarely play ready golf, they wait for the worst in the group to catch up.

Walkers, on the other hand, are more fit and tend to play more. As a result, they know the rules more and violate etiquette less. They also get out of the way faster if ever they are caught by a faster group. They just wave you up, duck in the trees, and you go. Four walkers walk separately to their four drives and hit them, they don't huddle together then commute from station to station. I agree, walkers cannot walk a course as fast as a good golfer riding in a cart -- BUT THEY DON'T CAUSE CLOGS. And most importantly of all, a walker generally can't carry enough beer in his bag to impair his judgement and become a problem. The only slow walkers I see are the 80 year old veterans who still insist on walking and love to fish balls out of ponds. Their hearing and vision are often as impaired as their knee joints and sometimes they'll tend to putter a bit before they see you. But they are rare and deserve a break.

I realize that my overview doesn't hold for country clubs, courses that must be ridden due to distances between tees, and upscale resort courses. Different factors come into play on those sorts of courses. I also think that courses in the west tend to be faster than courses in the east. I don't know why this is, but the 90 degree rule and cartpath only rules have a lot to do with it and they seem to be more in force in the east.
 
I'm a walker, so I lean toward that side of the issue, obviously. My buddy and I have walked our normal course, which is 6 miles from first tee to 18th green in under 4 hours when we've had no groups making us wait. Now, with the same circumstances, we could play even faster with a cart, but we drop each other off at a ball, get to the next one, one guy pulls the cart around the green while the other is walking up with his putter and wedge if need be. The moron factor is definitely what causes the slow play. I do see a trend where it seems like walkers are generally better at playing ready golf than those who drive carts. That's in general and of course there are exceptions on both sides.
 
Pace of play is a huge issue. I love playing the game and I am very lucky that my job allows me to play during the week and the pace of play is an issue depending on the course during the week. I can't imagine the six hour rounds on the weekends, my wife would kill me.

So living in New York City I play at Bethpage State Park a lot , which has 5 amazing courses and PACE OF PLAY is huge issue (the greens fee are inexpensive for the quality of course you play). I usual play the RED course considered a distant second to Bethpage Black. The last time I played at Bethpage i was on the Red course and from 10:15-11 am there where no tee times scheduled (this was a glitch in there reservation system). They have tee times every eight minutes. My group teed off at 11 am and played a 4 an half hour round, which unusual at minimum it is 5 to 5 1/2 hour round. I think if more courses spaced out the tee times to every ten minutes that would help with the pace of play issue. I understand this would hit courses in the wallet but, courses wouldn't get as beat up (which would save money in maintenance), more repeat business and a happy customer. What say you?

I would rather walk on course then a cart because with pace of play issues I do not need to drive to my ball and wait 5 minutes to hit it. Walking for me it keeps me focused. Sitting in a cart I have time to check my phone etc and it gets me concentrating on something different then the task at hand.
 
If my rounds took 4 1/2 to 5 hours I would give up the game and just fish, boat, and bike in the summer.
 
Riding does not slow pace of play. I can play 18 in 2 1/2 hours or less in a cart and I'm a 20 ish cap.
 
Who is more prone to hitting into the group ahead? Walkers or riders? Maybe I should make a new thread.

lol That's hilarious.
 
You guys that like to walk make these statements as if they are fact. I play in a men's group on the weekends and 90% of the guys walk. We play 430-500hr rounds on the regular. The clog has nothing to do with walking or riding but player. SLOW PLAY IS SLOW PLAY, no matter how you look at it. Based on my experience you fit golfer slow play down more, sowering yourselves with complements about being fit between shots :alien2:

You walkers are just as responsible for slow play as riders.

Funny, I never said if I was a walker or rider. I just said that when I marshalled, the slow play clogs were almost always caused by inexperienced cart riders, not walkers. I actually own an electric Yamaha, which I use at two out of the three muni's I play regularly. I like to play fast at times when the courses aren't crowded and I can zip through nine in under an hour. I can only walk the same nine in 1 1/2 hours. When riding, I find that it's much easier to play through any number of walkers, but cart riders, no matter how slow, are more reluctant to let you through.

What I was really saying was that the clogs were more likely to be caused by inexperienced newbies and the offending newbies tend to rent carts when they infrequently play. Sure, if they're poor or cheap regulars, they'll walk of course to save bucks. But the class of whoop-it-up irregulars who rent carts are also the ones who bring the hidden 12 packs of Keystone. Then watch out, because you're likely to be fishing Club Cars out of hazards at the end of the day.

The more experienced a golfer is, the less likely he will be to cause a clog through slow or inattentive play. Clogging a course is like a chain reaction. One slow group out of ten will back up all ten. The tighter you schedule your tee times, the more unavoidable slow play becomes because the more likely you are to get that slow one out of ten in front of you. I really feel for the Bethpage guy. He's right, if they spaced the tees times out more, play would be faster, but it's simple supply and demand. The tighter you pack tee times, the more revenue per day for the course.

In high-demand mid-Atlantic courses, they pack them as tight as they can because demand is so high and supply is so limited. You'll probably never speed up play much there. When I lived in Westport, CT we had ONE muni for the whole affluent town. To qualify for a pass you had to prove residency with three current forms of ID. We lined up a 2:00 am, slept in the parking lot overnight for Saturday or Sunday tee times. They sent groups off every 10 minutes, 6 foursomes an hour, nothing short of foursomes, all gaps filled by singleton reserves, marshals on both nines -- and rounds were always 5 to 6 hours. There was simply nothing that could be done. Too many bodies in too little time.
 
Funny, I never said if I was a walker or rider. I just said that when I marshalled, the slow play clogs were almost always caused by inexperienced cart riders, not walkers. I actually own an electric Yamaha, which I use at two out of the three muni's I play regularly. I like to play fast at times when the courses aren't crowded and I can zip through nine in under an hour. I can only walk the same nine in 1 1/2 hours. When riding, I find that it's much easier to play through any number of walkers, but cart riders, no matter how slow, are more reluctant to let you through.

What I was really saying was that the clogs were more likely to be caused by inexperienced newbies and the offending newbies tend to rent carts when they infrequently play. Sure, if they're poor or cheap regulars, they'll walk of course to save bucks. But the class of whoop-it-up irregulars who rent carts are also the ones who bring the hidden 12 packs of Keystone. Then watch out, because you're likely to be fishing Club Cars out of hazards at the end of the day.

The more experienced a golfer is, the less likely he will be to cause a clog through slow or inattentive play. Clogging a course is like a chain reaction. One slow group out of ten will back up all ten. The tighter you schedule your tee times, the more unavoidable slow play becomes because the more likely you are to get that slow one out of ten in front of you. I really feel for the Bethpage guy. He's right, if they spaced the tees times out more, play would be faster, but it's simple supply and demand. The tighter you pack tee times, the more revenue per day for the course.

In high-demand mid-Atlantic courses, they pack them as tight as they can because demand is so high and supply is so limited. You'll probably never speed up play much there. When I lived in Westport, CT we had ONE muni for the whole affluent town. To qualify for a pass you had to prove residency with three current forms of ID. We lined up a 2:00 am, slept in the parking lot overnight for Saturday or Sunday tee times. They sent groups off every 10 minutes, 6 foursomes an hour, nothing short of foursomes, all gaps filled by singleton reserves, marshals on both nines -- and rounds were always 5 to 6 hours. There was simply nothing that could be done. Too many bodies in too little time.

What you mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with walking versus riding. As has been said numerous times, it's determined by each player, not their mode of transportation.
 
Was just checking out the site for a local course that requires you to use a cart. Found this on one of their pages.



OR THOSE PLAYING OUR COURSE FOR THE FIRST TIME PLEASE NOTE THAT IF YOU ARE PLAYING ON A

FRI, SAT, SUN OR HOLIDAY DURING PEAK SEASON YOUR ROUND WILL BE ABOUT 5 HOURS. WE DO OUR

BEST WITH OUR PACE OF PLAY BUT THIS COURSE IS LONG AND CHALLENGING FOR MOST. WE TAKE OUR

PACE OF PLAY VERY SERIOUSLY AND WOULD LIKE YOU TO KNOW UP FRONT IF YOU HAVE PLANS

SCHEDULED FOR LATER THAT DAY :)


And no chance I'm playing there any time soon.
 
Pace of play - walking versus riding

5 hours on a longer course doesn't seem out of line to me. At least they're upfront about it
 
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5 bourse on a longer course doesn't seem out of line to me. At least they're upfront about it

Agree. While I play fast and prefer to keep moving, I'm not a pace snob. If a course is up front about it, I have to give them kudos for that.
 
Agree. While I play fast and prefer to keep moving, I'm not a pace snob. If a course is up front about it, I have to give them kudos for that.

If it's 5 hours for golf they really aren't doing their job unless everyone that shows up is just terrible.
 
If it's 5 hours for golf they really aren't doing their job unless everyone that shows up is just terrible.

Agreed, if it averages 5 hours I'm not playing there unless I can get the first tee time. Many of the resorts courses are almost not walkable with hundreds of yards between some of the holes. Unfortunately, difficult golf courses do take longer, especially when many bogey golfers want to play the tips. On our annual Minnesota golf vacation we always schedule the first tee time of the day so we can get around in 4 hours. One year we teed off at 9:00 am and it took 5 hours. All the courses we play have slope ratings over 140 with water on about 13 holes. Your average golfer is going to be losing 6+ balls and will struggle to finish in under 4:45.
 
If it's 5 hours for golf they really aren't doing their job unless everyone that shows up is just terrible.

I've never seen that course so I not saying for certain, but what isn't the course doing? What more can they do, rangers and marshals don't do anything in my view.
 
I've never seen that course so I not saying for certain, but what isn't the course doing? What more can they do, rangers and marshals don't do anything in my view.

You would almost have to go there and play at least once to see if there is just cause for that warning, and for not doing anything about it.
 
If it's 5 hours for golf they really aren't doing their job unless everyone that shows up is just terrible.

Tour pros take about 4 1/2. They're pretty good too.
 
I would like a clarification on the 90 degree rule. My understanding is you ride the cart path until you are even with your ball and then turn and head straight for the ball for your next shot. What if two guys are playing and one hits his shot 20 to 30 yards further to a location on the far side from the cart path. Am I (shorter hitter) supposed to return to the cart path go the 20 to 30 yards and again turn toward the longer ball ,hit it and then return to the cart path and continue this procedure? Or can I simply ride the fairway to the longer shot make the shot and then return to the cart path. The first option seems to take longer. Thanks.
 
I would like a clarification on the 90 degree rule. My understanding is you ride the cart path until you are even with your ball and then turn and head straight for the ball for your next shot. What if two guys are playing and one hits his shot 20 to 30 yards further to a location on the far side from the cart path. Am I (shorter hitter) supposed to return to the cart path go the 20 to 30 yards and again turn toward the longer ball ,hit it and then return to the cart path and continue this procedure? Or can I simply ride the fairway to the longer shot make the shot and then return to the cart path. The first option seems to take longer. Thanks.

You just gotta use common sense here. Just as if you top your second shot 20 feet, are you going to go straight to the ball or back to the cart path, drive 20 feet and then go back to your ball?

And if your fairways are Zoysia, most courses around here want you to do 90° and once you get to your ball, stay in the fairway until yo get to the cart return to path sign.
 
I would like a clarification on the 90 degree rule. My understanding is you ride the cart path until you are even with your ball and then turn and head straight for the ball for your next shot. What if two guys are playing and one hits his shot 20 to 30 yards further to a location on the far side from the cart path. Am I (shorter hitter) supposed to return to the cart path go the 20 to 30 yards and again turn toward the longer ball ,hit it and then return to the cart path and continue this procedure? Or can I simply ride the fairway to the longer shot make the shot and then return to the cart path. The first option seems to take longer. Thanks.

Different courses have different interpretations of the 90 degree rule. Most of those I play where this is even a factor, you drive the path until you are even with the shortest ball, then drive to that ball. You then stay in the fairway until both riders' balls are played to the green complex, then you return to the path at near 90 degrees and drive to the parking spot for the green.
 
I prefer to walk for exercise reasons. Alone, I can do 27 holes in 6 hours, compared to a tournament I played in recently where my foursome played 18 in the same amount of time. Needless to say, it was too long for me.

I use the cart when there are reasons for it, like a shotgun start, or the course really isn't walkable especially green to next tee. I also use the cart when I know it's going to be a long day, like a tournament. Otherwise, on any opportunity while playing golf, I'd rather walk. Not for speed of play, but for exercise.
 
I walk at least 95% of my rounds over a year. I play faster than any group in carts with 2 or more people at my course. Typically get waved through by these groups 3 or 4 times per round. I cannot out pace a single golfer in a cart with decent or better golf ability. I probably could if I really wanted to but it would take me off my game and I would be really rushing everything. It typically takes me 2.5 - 3 hours to walk 18 as a single.
 
Nothing worse than cart path only and every tee shot is as far away from the path as possible. I prefer to walk when CPO, sadly one of the courses I like to play requires them do to several 150+ yard drives between greens and the next tee.
 
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