Oregon Jack
Let's real 'er back in.
- Thread starter
- #51
Yeah i know, i would too. The sound and shape of a well-made muscle car is hard not to want tho. The next time we take my dads car out for a spin i'll record it. It is such a beast..
Muscle Cars
CS
Major Hacker
I have to disagree.. It's has all the criteria to be a muscle car, rear wheel drive 2 doors and a high horsepower engine.
Wake
Active member
any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving- That's from the Webster dictionary. While the basic idea is similar to a muscle car, drop a bigger motor into a 2 door car.
Wikipedia goes on to say "A large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door,rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing.[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] They are distinct from two-seat sports cars and expensive 2+2 GTs intended for high-speed touring and road racing"
I think of a muscle car as a cheap american car with a big motor. FWIW a Vette isn't a muscle car either. It's a sports car.
OUZO Power
@K_Kyriopoulos
My weekend toy. Not muscle. But lots of finess. I call it the Black Mamba. For sure there wont be fans of it in this thread. But thats ok.
Probably goes as fast as most of you boys in a straight line and for sure faster on a roadcourse.
2001 Boosted Honda Prelude Special Edition.
Probably goes as fast as most of you boys in a straight line and for sure faster on a roadcourse.
2001 Boosted Honda Prelude Special Edition.
Damaikis
Fairway Finder
Not sure if it counts, but one of my old friends had a '63 Impala. That was an awesome car.
Wake
Active member
Not a muscle car, but a cool machine nonetheless.
Oregon Jack
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- Thread starter
- #57
haha the impaler. nice.
and UOZU, the first step to being a muscle car is it's made it america. 2nd- made in detroit. prefferably made in the '60's or early '70's.
Oregon Jack
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- #58
why isn't it a muscle car? opinion, i guess.
My favorite thing about this thread is that the guy with the Subaru POS is dictating car terms with the guy who owns an AMG
Wake
Active member
Haha, it is kinda funny that this thread has been mostly discussions of the definitions. I guess the Impala kinda ushered in the MC era.
Oregon Jack
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- #61
IMO, the impala and the 'vette were the very first muscle cars. yes, the 'vette was more of a sports car, but some models were straight up muscle.
oh, can't forget about the first Cobra's.
Oregon Jack
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- #62
wtf is your problem? just because i own a subaru that could handle more crap than whatever you drive can, doesn't mean i don't know anything about other cars.
I'm pretty sure that that the mustang was the first muscle car. One very important of the muscle car was the relatively low price tag. Vettes have never had low price tags. Plus, before the corvette coup, in 62 or 63, the were most low power roadsters
Hahahahahaha. You're funny.
Oregon Jack
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- Thread starter
- #65
like i said, yes, they were sports cars, and sports cars tend to have higher price tags, but some were more muscle. and the first vettes were made in the mid-'50s, making them the first.
Wake
Active member
Haha, while the Vette wasn't a MC, the first few years Mustang weren't either, and certainly not the first. I would go with the 64 GTO, but some say it goes back farther than that.
A muscle car is a straight line car. A sports car handles turns. I don't agree with vettes being the first muscle car. Just because some were designed as such, doesn't mean that they all were.
You're right that the first mustangs were mostly "pony cars".
Wake
Active member
If you are going to count the first gen vette (I certainly would not, small block v8's in a 2 seat sports car) the you have to give the nod to the 49 Olds Rocket 88.
Oregon Jack
Let's real 'er back in.
- Thread starter
- #70
Yeah I do read. Just because some vettes had muscle car tendencies doesn't mean that the first ones did. Especially the C1 series.
CS
Major Hacker
RatFink
Carnivore
By definition, the first "official" muscle car was the 1964 GTO as it fit the bill of being a cheap, low line two door car that was jam packed with go-fast goodies. Now, some argue that earlier cars qualify as muscle cars due to the two-door/big engine criteria like the '62 Dodge Max Wedge cars that could hang with the big Hemi cars of the late '60s - but they were expensive.
Yes, it is true that muscle cars are not canyon carving machines - but that is due to the fact that back in the day, these cars were "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" - referring to the fact that they were basically ways for the big companies to create NHRA sanctioned cars for the street. They were also a part of the NASCAR development like the Charger 500/Daytona and the Ford Torino Talladegas. Then later on with the trans-am series racing cars, came the Boss 302s, Z/28s and AAR/TAs. These were the 'handlers' of the muscle car era since they were all small block cars with handling packs, but they were also pony cars vs. mid-size coupes like the GTOs and the Road Runners and Chevelles.
You guys also have to understand that handling technology just wasn't there in the US in the 1960s. Everything was heavy - cast iron blocks, steel this, steel that and that skinny bias ply tires do not do well against 450hp to the rear wheels, a solid axle with leaf springs and a 4000lbs car going sideways. Muscle cars are by definition, brutal and simple beasts.
Nowadays, basically anything from the mid-late '60s to early-mid '70s can be considered a muscle car without too much trouble because it has morphed into such a blanket term for a car from that era with a huge engine that pulls hard in a straight line. But by purest sense of the definition for muscle cars, the best example is the original GTO and the '68/'69 Road Runner since they were the bargain basement cars with as many go-fast parts strapped to them at a low price.
In today's era of advanced cars, it is tough to brand what is a muscle car and what is a sports sedan/sports car. Dodge tried with the SRT8 Superbee - an SRT8 with a cheap interior and less of the high tech bits on the higher line SRTs, but they're still very expensive and that is not the point of a muscle car.
Yes, it is true that muscle cars are not canyon carving machines - but that is due to the fact that back in the day, these cars were "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" - referring to the fact that they were basically ways for the big companies to create NHRA sanctioned cars for the street. They were also a part of the NASCAR development like the Charger 500/Daytona and the Ford Torino Talladegas. Then later on with the trans-am series racing cars, came the Boss 302s, Z/28s and AAR/TAs. These were the 'handlers' of the muscle car era since they were all small block cars with handling packs, but they were also pony cars vs. mid-size coupes like the GTOs and the Road Runners and Chevelles.
You guys also have to understand that handling technology just wasn't there in the US in the 1960s. Everything was heavy - cast iron blocks, steel this, steel that and that skinny bias ply tires do not do well against 450hp to the rear wheels, a solid axle with leaf springs and a 4000lbs car going sideways. Muscle cars are by definition, brutal and simple beasts.
Nowadays, basically anything from the mid-late '60s to early-mid '70s can be considered a muscle car without too much trouble because it has morphed into such a blanket term for a car from that era with a huge engine that pulls hard in a straight line. But by purest sense of the definition for muscle cars, the best example is the original GTO and the '68/'69 Road Runner since they were the bargain basement cars with as many go-fast parts strapped to them at a low price.
In today's era of advanced cars, it is tough to brand what is a muscle car and what is a sports sedan/sports car. Dodge tried with the SRT8 Superbee - an SRT8 with a cheap interior and less of the high tech bits on the higher line SRTs, but they're still very expensive and that is not the point of a muscle car.
Weird Rat. You just made that long post and never mentioned Corvettes.