Kobe: Top 10 best?

ddec said:

I'm looking NBA only for this thread, but you have a point on Walton. Also, when Duncan finishes his career do you include him in the list of centers?
Look at this list of centers(in no order) if I throw Shaq at 5. Russel, Wilt, Kareem, Olajuwon.

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Thats a solid list. Duncan would have to be in there. You also have players like Robinson and Ewing that I put in similar fashion to Shaq. They happened to come into and play in the league where the center was still an important position and had equal talent on opposing teams, where Shaq came in a bit after that and had very little.

Im a Shaq fan, for a lot of reasons, but it would be hard for me to include him in any top 10 list, or even a top 5 centers list, which sounds like discredit, but its truly not.

JB said:

Thats a solid list. Duncan would have to be in there. You also have players like Robinson and Ewing that I put in similar fashion to Shaq. They happened to come into and play in the league where the center was still an important position and had equal talent on opposing teams, where Shaq came in a bit after that and had very little.

Im a Shaq fan, for a lot of reasons, but it would be hard for me to include him in any top 10 list, or even a top 5 centers list, which sounds like discredit, but its truly not.

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absolutely not, that's kind of what I was trying to say as well. That position has had some legendary players.

ddec said:

absolutely not, that's kind of what I was trying to say as well. That position has had some legendary players.

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Its kind of like the PG position. They will get lost in the shuffle on just about any list. Because the assist is not glamorous. You could make the case that John Stockton and Steve Nash belong on lists like this. Neither are on mine, but I understand the case could be made. The glamour goes to the scorer, regardless of efficiency.

JB said:

Its kind of like the PG position. They will get lost in the shuffle on just about any list. Because the assist is not glamorous. You could make the case that John Stockton and Steve Nash belong on lists like this. Neither are on mine, but I understand the case could be made. The glamour goes to the scorer, regardless of efficiency.

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This is exactly what I brought up when having this discussion at work. Pistol Pete or Stockton or Kidd wouldn't make any all time top 10 list but would be on any all time roster if picking one of each position

JB said:

Thats a solid list. Duncan would have to be in there. You also have players like Robinson and Ewing that I put in similar fashion to Shaq. They happened to come into and play in the league where the center was still an important position and had equal talent on opposing teams, where Shaq came in a bit after that and had very little.

Im a Shaq fan, for a lot of reasons, but it would be hard for me to include him in any top 10 list, or even a top 5 centers list, which sounds like discredit, but its truly not.

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I'm out with the "HackaShaq" movement.

....although I don't know that Lebron is setting any records for free throws made either hahaha

JB said:

Thats a solid list. Duncan would have to be in there. You also have players like Robinson and Ewing that I put in similar fashion to Shaq. They happened to come into and play in the league where the center was still an important position and had equal talent on opposing teams, where Shaq came in a bit after that and had very little.

Im a Shaq fan, for a lot of reasons, but it would be hard for me to include him in any top 10 list, or even a top 5 centers list, which sounds like discredit, but its truly not.

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Shaq came into the league in '92-'93, right? Somewhere around there. I grew up watching Shaq, but I really think that he is in the top 10 for me. Hakeem has a lot of great records, no doubt, and took it to Shaq in the Finals. I didn't watch the NBA in the 80s, but I know he was really good.

ddec said:

absolutely not, that's kind of what I was trying to say as well. That position has had some legendary players.

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It's an amazing list really. Especially since outside of MJ/Magic/Bird, the "all-time" list is really big man dominated.

I always looked at Duncan as a PF. Either way he is one of the best big men ever

I would think Kobe is #10 on the all time list, but no higher. Is he worthy of this conversation as a basketball player? Absolutely.

My breakdown by position, *'d for people I'd rate above Kobe.

Point Guards:
*Magic (Huge gap between Magic and...)
*Big O for #2 (And yes, Oscar Robertson is deserving, go watch some of his games)
Isiah or Stockton
..a bunch of other dudes.

Shooting Guards:
*Jordan
Kobe (btw, I don't think Nash deserved both of his MVP's over Kobe, maybe one of them, definitely not two)
Again, another big gap: I'd go with West or Wade here

Center:
*Kareem is my #1 because he's the only other player I could legitimately argue as being GOAT instead of Jordan.
*Wilt
*Russell
*Shaq - IMHO, if Shaq had ACTUALLY developed his post game, I think he would have gone down as GOAT, not to mention if he worked on a 12-foot jumper and a better FT%.
The Dream

Small Forward
*Bird
LeBron (I could rate LBJ over Kobe, but something about that doesn't feel quite right, yet.)
Dr. J
Elgin Baylor
Rick Barry
Scottie Pippen

Power Forward
*Timmeh. (I don't think it is close and I'd argue the Duncan is the best player of his generation, INCLUDING Kobe)
Malone
KG
Chuck
Dirk

Given that list, Kobe barely makes my Top 10. No doubt, it isn't for very long.

Full Disclosure: I'm a Laker Fan, but not a Laker Homer.