Is all new equipment created equal?

MTC82

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I watch alot of Mark Crossfield on youtube and he basically says that all the clubs nowadays are the same(if you use the same loft and shaft length for each club), do you think that is true? I know I've hit certain clubs better than others, but those were small sample sizes with me not knowing if I made the same swing and contact on each club, so he might be right. What do you think?
 
No, its not true. In fact its quite wrong. Between materials alone its wrong. Then add in spin rates, etc and its just flat out false. Now most is made well. And most will be good for somebody. But its not the same.

Take a 3 iron muscleback in style and then take a larger head 3 iron with perimeter weighting. Take a SLDR and then take a XR and see if they are the same. The idea behind that does a disservice to so many.
 
In essence I think Crossfield is correct. The performance of the clubs shouldn't vary. Sure some companies have different philosophy, if you will, when creating drivers for example and may perform differently on different parts of the face in relation to each other. But they all make different categories as well. You can't compare a MB iron to a SGI iron and use that as an argument to say Crossfield's statement is false. That's not what he's saying either! That would just be stupid.

I think what he's saying rather is, if you buy a club from one of the big companies, you're never going to get crap. And all of them have their own version of a driver, or iron etc in a certain category. They do all perform, subject to how you deliver it to put it like Crossfield :D
 
In essence I think Crossfield is correct. The performance of the clubs shouldn't vary. Sure some companies have different philosophy, if you will, when creating drivers for example and may perform differently on different parts of the face in relation to each other. But they all make different categories as well. You can't compare a MB iron to a SGI iron and use that as an argument to say Crossfield's statement is false. That's not what he's saying either! That would just be stupid.

I think what he's saying rather is, if you buy a club from one of the big companies, you're never going to get crap. And all of them have their own version of a driver, or iron etc in a certain category. They do all perform, subject to how you deliver it to put it like Crossfield :D

And yet he keeps "reviewing" it....
 
All the clubs? No. When comparing certain club types to one another? Maybe. There is always different theories and technologies used by different companies, so they offer different benefits. I think what he means to say is that TaylorMade's GI irons shouldn't give you 10 yards over Titleist's GI irons. I do agree with JB, however, in that different irons might produce spin rates that are more suitable than others. There's also the factor of amateurs' swing inconsistencies.
TL;DR: When comparing a GI iron to another GI iron, there should not be one that goes 15 yards further. There should be one, however, that creates a better spin rate, etc. for someone's specific swing.
 
Equal in performance for a given golfer? No, probably not - JB has brought up a lot of the reasons why - from a performance standpoint not all manufacturers are targeting the same people and have different opinions of what works "best" for golfers. There are manufacturers who's equipment people will just "click" with, and others that just won't work for them. Other groups of people will have the completely opposite experience. All part of the fun.

I would absolutely agree that all the current manufacturers are making high quality equipment though.
 
Nope. Don't agree with it at all.
 
Certainly not treated equal as far as I'm concerned. But what is more staggering is how golfers homerism traits cause them to have blinders on to the point where they fail to see good options elsewhere. But I'm partial after experiencing that very thing recently. But that's for another thread.
 
All I had to read was Crossfield to know its BS...
 
I think it's all created equal in the fact that pretty much every big name OEM is producing good quality equipment that will fit someone out there. But other than that, no.
 
Basically all clubs conform to the USGA rules, meaning that some of their performance characteristics are fixed. For example Coefficient of Restitution is limited, meaning you can only get so much "smash factor" out of a club before it's non-conforming.

Within those rules though there are lots of areas to innovate. Some clubs will perform *very* similarly, and you can tell just by looking. For example check out the Wilson Staff FG Tour V4 and the Callaway Apex Pro. They're almost identical clubs, and I would expect them to perform very similarly for the same loft and length.

But then look at the Wilson Staff D200 and the Callaway Big Bertha irons. They're both in the GI/SGI category, but they take radically different approaches. The D200 is kind of a cavity-back with a big chunky sole putting a lot of mass low and back. The Big Bertha is effectively a full set of hybrid/iron crossovers with hollow bodies. You're going to get very different launch characteristics out of each of them in terms of spin, launch angle, how they handle misses, etc.
 
Crossfields statement was more about how there's no company putting out terrible equipment and that each company will have something that fits someone. I don't recall him ever saying they are exactly the same in the sense you mentioned
 
No, its not true. In fact its quite wrong. Between materials alone its wrong. Then add in spin rates, etc and its just flat out false. Now most is made well. And most will be good for somebody. But its not the same.

Take a 3 iron muscleback in style and then take a larger head 3 iron with perimeter weighting. Take a SLDR and then take a XR and see if they are the same. The idea behind that does a disservice to so many.

Could not agree with this more. I think materials and manufacturing have made it almost difficult not to make a quality club, but that does not mean they are all the same.
 
Crossfields statement was more about how there's no company putting out terrible equipment and that each company will have something that fits someone. I don't recall him ever saying they are exactly the same in the sense you mentioned

Yeah. I his defense, he always states to go get fit. He also is perfectly willing to say that something isn't quite right for him, or spec'd to him, and that it might work for someone else. I find him fairly balanced.

Is he right 100% of the time? Of course not. No one is.

I also find him often misquoted or misunderstood. I also think that the "live" video review genre is a medium that is apt to have that happen. Doing longer, thread based reviews with Q/A allows for some give and take and for the essence of a point to come out.
 
I'll agree that certain categories are maxed.. Of course they are.

I'll never ever agree that they are created equal. Not even close, IMO.
 
Don't agree that everything is created equal. They all have to adhere to the same standards, but for each golfer there are definitely different levels of performance that each sees from different clubs. If all clubs were created equal there would be no reason for anyone to get fit as we would be able to just pick out an iron that fit into our handicap range, and go at it. I hit every driver I could get my hands on this year and it really came down to two. The Callaway BB DBD and the R15. With the same shaft in each driver I tried, they all performed and felt different for me.

I guess I can see where Mark was coming from in his statement and maybe didn't communicate it properly.
 
i like crossfields reviews,,,i believe he was saying that equipment is reaching its limits,,and companies are about as far as they can go and stay within the rule limits.
 
I watch alot of Mark Crossfield on youtube and he basically says that all the clubs nowadays are the same(if you use the same loft and shaft length for each club), do you think that is true? I know I've hit certain clubs better than others, but those were small sample sizes with me not knowing if I made the same swing and contact on each club, so he might be right. What do you think?

I think he's suggested that like for like clubs in each range, ie blade in one to blade in another or GI in one to GI in another with same lofts and shafts are difficult to separate beyond personal feel an preference and that you should be fit for each accordingly but not that they're all the same.
 
But if it's a Mizuno club Crossfield changes his tune.
 
But if it's a Mizuno club Crossfield changes his tune.

Well yeah they are perfect...

"Never bite the hand that feeds you"...Crossfield may have a deal with Mizuno to favor their irons in his reviews, I do not know for sure, however have you ever seen Michael Breed without a Titleist club in his hands?
 
"Never bite the hand that feeds you"...Crossfield may have a deal with Mizuno to favor their irons in his reviews, I do not know for sure, however have you ever seen Michael Breed without a Titleist club in his hands?

That's because Breed is on Titleist staff.
 
I would like to know what he actually said. If it was something along the lines of "everyone makes good gear" then I'm on board. If it's that all gear is the same then I disagree, that's almost laughable.
 
No, its not true. In fact its quite wrong. Between materials alone its wrong. Then add in spin rates, etc and its just flat out false. Now most is made well. And most will be good for somebody. But its not the same.

Take a 3 iron muscleback in style and then take a larger head 3 iron with perimeter weighting. Take a SLDR and then take a XR and see if they are the same. The idea behind that does a disservice to so many.

As always, 100% correct. JB know's clubs.
 
.... If it was something along the lines of "everyone makes good gear" then I'm on board....

That is what he says. Never has he said they're all the same or even suggested it. As much of a dork as I thought Crossfield was in the beginning, I think he has come a long way and I actually respect his opinion on things. And yes, he does have great taste in irons...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpI63dzdRUs

I don't think any manufacturer's own his soul...yet.
 
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